Why Double Stacked Filigrees are Good

[Tobril]

The Good

We have a reason to spend a lot of raid currency in a nice and incremental way. More reason to chase raid currency means there is a reason to keep running any recent raid. This keeps regular players engaged and helps the more casual people with being able to find groups.

The mixing and matching of filigree sets is more interesting/fun with multiple dual raid filigrees.

There's a mild economy for raid and rare filigrees.


The "Bad"

The current situation doesn't fit what was originally envisioned on a SSG whiteboard.

An embarrassing edge case in coding is on full display with the current system.


Wait That's Illegal

Instead of spending even more time with what appears to be a problematic and tricky system, leave it alone for now and redesign it instead.

Make sentience something more like the enhancement tree systems.

This would alleviate developer stress related to wanting to create weapons that are situational and fun but not best in slot. Players benefit from being able to swap weapons again and chase extra fun toys while still retaining regular bonuses.

Players would even be tempted to rez scroll their friend instead of carrying them while waiting to spend 2 boosts or 800 spell points.


Since storage and toolkits are the monetary backbone of the system, the retrofit can still have filigrees that slot into the trees to give varied bonuses.

While you're at it allow us to pay some sort of currency to upgrade any filigree into its rare version.

Keep the current raid rune+upgrades.

Create dedicated "no rules" slots that allow us to double/triple/quadruple up on specific filigrees.


Allow sentience in a level-gated way from low levels. Potentially even level 1.

[Kielbasa]

While you're at it allow us to pay some sort of currency to upgrade any filigree into its rare version.

This how about make it simple 5 of any filigree can be turned in for a rare version of it.

[JOTMON]

They screwed up.

They should not of allowed multiple same stats, any same effect or set bonus to stack.
They should have shared bonus type and not stacked.

its over powered.

[Tobril]

They screwed up.

They should not of allowed multiple same stats, any same effect or set bonus to stack.
They should have shared bonus type and not stacked.

its over powered.

By that logic selecting the same stat twice in an enhancement tree is also overpowered.

[Artos_Fabril]

By that logic selecting the same stat twice in an enhancement tree is also overpowered.

Overpowered is a fraught term, but like most decisions since about U9, it has dragged the game further and further from 3.5e. That's not a universally bad thing, but DDO has become very much its own thing, and very little of the D&D DNA remains.

[voxson5]

I really don't see the issue.

We can't stack the filigree on a single item - this is currently WAI and appears to fit the original dev outline.

We can put the same filigree on different things (weapon & artifact), which makes sense to be able to empower the individual recipients. These are epic level effects so they should be treated as a special boon.

[Abilbo]

The Good

The current situation doesn't fit what was originally envisioned on a SSG whiteboard.

Just curious... How do you know what was on the SSG whiteboard?

[Evean]

The current situation doesn't fit what was originally envisioned on a SSG whiteboard.

What do you mean by this?

[mikarddo]

The Good

We have a reason to spend a lot of raid currency in a nice and incremental way. More reason to chase raid currency means there is a reason to keep running any recent raid. This keeps regular players engaged and helps the more casual people with being able to find groups.

Completely agree. That fact that there is so little worth buying with Threads of Fate very certainly limits the desire to run more raids. Not being able to stack 2 of the same kind of raid filigree only makes this worse.

[LightBear]

When the devs where first publicly talking about this new thing they where planning to introduce (I think it was Cordo and Lynn) I picked it up as that we would be able to do multiple raids out of which we would get 1 currency and that could be turned in to any item from those raids.
There was even a formula presented that something like x raids would equal 1 item.
I can't recall there being talk about two different currencies.

Somehow that got changed to something somewhat as we wound up with 2 currencies.
I know the feedback players gave that we had to run to many raids for a single item.

I have to check up in game what exactly can be traded for the threads of fate.
But last time I checked I could only upgrade old raid items.
I don't count filigrees and augments as items as they go into an items slot.

And for the double stacking... who cares, its a 1% kinda thing.
And with the raid filigrees it would wind up +8 prim stat and +4 con I guess.
Ok, +8 prob is more then one percent, still there are other ways to get there from different filigrees, not just those double raid ones.

[Stales]

Players would even be tempted to rez scroll their friend instead of carrying them while waiting to spend 2 boosts or 800 spell points.

A couple quick item slots for scrolls or wands that don't unequip your main hand would be nice.

[Oxarhamar]

Allow sentience in a level-gated way from low levels. Potentially even level 1.

This I like put sentient gem in a slots on the paper doll then give bits of its power as you level & it could be on whatever weapon you have equipped

[Shadospawn]

The Good

We have a reason to spend a lot of raid currency in a nice and incremental way…

I can only assume this is being defended as there’s a proposed “fix” or “adjustment” on the way?

[superevbully]

They screwed up.

They should not of allowed multiple same stats, any same effect or set bonus to stack.
They should have shared bonus type and not stacked.

its over powered.

respectfully i think setience power may play a bigger role at 20 with the massive decrease .......some may be used to not using till 29 may need to re think that .....more tool kits are gonna be obv needed....

[Tobril]

I can only assume this is being defended as there’s a proposed “fix” or “adjustment” on the way?

It's exactly what I said, don't read to much into it.

The reasoning has more to do with being tired of having seen certain people be overly righteous about this and then a few days later ask what filigrees even do for their character.

[Tsutti]

It also adds a tiny bit of complexity to filigree setups because without double stacking, it couldn't matter less where you slot each filigree but with double stacking, you need to figure out which ones you want to double stack and you need to specifically put those in your artifact. In a game where one of the massive appeals is the intricacy of character building, this is good.

[Evean]

2 > 1

[Cordovan]

I have had to do a lot of cleanup in this thread, but to be clear: This is not working as intended, and will be changed.

[mikarddo]

I have had to do a lot of cleanup in this thread, but to be clear: This is not working as intended, and will be changed.

Fair enough, so be it, though I consider that a mistake.

What are the plans then to give us something worthwhile to use Threads of Fate on? Those have nearly lost their value for many players now and I dont even raid much. As I recall the intention for those was to continually to add good stuff to purchase in order to make raiding a large set of different raids attractive for the playerbase. Currently, that could work out better.

[Tobril]

I have had to do a lot of cleanup in this thread, but to be clear: This is not working as intended, and will be changed.

Would it be possible to introduce an incremental way of spending raid currency to replace what people are already doing?

Universal raid currency (both runes and threads) has been a HUGE hit and it would be nice to continue the trend of keeping people engaged.