The Next Heroic Adventure Pack to be made Epic?

[Aelonwy]

In the Livestream on March 25, 2021, Severlin asked players to nominate the next Heroic Quest Pack to receive an Epic upgrade. At the very top of your response to this thread, please list the 5 Heroic Quest Packs you wish to see made Epic, in order from most to least desired.

1) Most Desired
2)
3)
4)
5) Least Desired

These are the remaining heroic only adventure packs:

• Seal of Shan to Kor (Base Levels 3/4/5, 4 quests, tiny wilderness zone)
• Tangleroot Gorge (Base levels 3 to 7, 10 quests, small wilderness zone)
• Sharn Syndicate (Base level 4, 6 quests, no zone)
• Necropolis 1 (Base levels 5 & 6, 5 quests, no zone)
• Sorrowdusk (Base levels 6 to 10, 10 quests, small wilderness zone)
• Necropolis 2 (Base levels 8 & 9, 5 quests, no zone)
• Ruins of Threnal (Base levels 8 to 10?, 9 real quests, 4 sort of quests, pseudo-wilderness zone)
• Restless Isles (Base levels 10 to 12, 2 quests + pre-raid & raid, medium and confusing multi-level wilderness zone)
• Necropolis 3 (Base levels 11 to 12, 5 quests, no zone)
• Attack on Stormreach (Base level 13, 4 quests, no zone)
• Harbinger of Madness (Base level 15, 4 quests, no zone)
• Reaver's Reach (Base level 17, 4 quests, 4 small wilderness zones)
• Reign of Madness (Base level 17, 4 quests, no zone)
• Path of Inspiration (Base level 18, 5 quests, no zone)
• Dreaming Dark (Base level 19 to 20, 5 quests, no zone)
• Devils of Shavarath (Base level 19 to 20, 6 quests + Raid, medium wilderness zone)

If you do not wish any developer time spent on this activity, please place at the top of your post, "I would prefer developer time spent on other activities."

After listing your preferences at the top of your post, please feel free to elaborate on your choices. Please keep all discussion pertinent to this topic, a Heroic Quest Pack receiving an Epic upgrade. If you wish to discuss some other matter, please make or select another thread for that purpose.

After a week or so, I'll try to determine the top 3 choices from what people choose and then I'll start a new thread about how making those packs epic could satisfy the most people, with hopefully lots of suggestions from you guys.

P.S. This is entirely player opinions/ideas, the devs are not obligated to listen to them - we just hope they will.

[LittleLexi]

These are the remaining heroic only adventure packs:

• Seal of Shan to Kor (Base Levels 3/4/5, 4 quests, tiny wilderness zone)
• Tangleroot Gorge (Base levels 3 to 7, 10 quests, small wilderness zone)
• Sharn Syndicate (Base level 4, 6 quests, no zone)
• Necropolis 1 (Base levels 5 & 6, 5 quests, no zone)
• Sorrowdusk (Base levels 6 to 10, 10 quests, small wilderness zone)
• Necropolis 2 (Base levels 8 & 9, 5 quests, no zone)
• Ruins of Threnal (Base levels 8 to 10?, 9 real quests, 4 sort of quests, pseudo-wilderness zone)
• Restless Isles (Base levels 10 to 12, 2 quests + pre-raid & raid, medium and confusing multi-level wilderness zone)
• Necropolis 3 (Base levels 11 to 12, 5 quests, no zone)
• Attack on Stormreach (Base level 13, 4 quests, no zone)
• Harbinger of Madness (Base level 15, 4 quests, no zone)
• Reaver's Reach (Base level 17, 4 quests, 4 small wilderness zones)
• Reign of Madness (Base level 17, 4 quests, no zone)
• Path of Inspiration (Base level 18, 5 quests, no zone)
• Dreaming Dark (Base level 19 to 20, 5 quests, no zone)
• Devils of Shavarath (Base level 19 to 20, 6 quests + Raid, medium wilderness zone)

16 options, a bit too much for a poll even if I knew how to make one - which I don't. I think we can probably discard Necro 1, 2, & 3 as options because they already made Necro 4 epic with a new story (and it was totally wicked!) so I doubt they have plans anytime soon to go back to the earlier Necro quests. Still leaves 13 valid choices. Let me know if you have reasons why any other options should be discounted.

For this thread I'd just like to know what most everyone would prefer to be the next epic-ified adventure pack and maybe some info on why you think it would be the best option.

After a week or so, I'll try to determine the top 3 choices from what people choose and then I'll start a new thread about how making those packs epic could satisfy the most people, with hopefully lots of suggestions from you guys.

P.S. This is entirely player opinions/ideas, the devs are not obligated to listen to them - we just hope they will.

Neat idea. Firstly I would like if they actually do the reverse of something else, and that is making newer raids epic or legendary only. They have this strange idea that people don't/won't run raids in heroic, and part of why they might have that idea is because they haven't supported making any raids for heroic for the longest time. It's just not true and doing so, won't invalidate their epic or legendary versions due to the systems in place that incentivize those.

As for your your query - Perhaps it's cheating, but I would love a Legendary Pit; with some neat twists on the beautiful quest. Otherwise I would say Reaver's Reach. That could be fun.

And since Heart of Madness has an epic version - perhaps the other two are less of a priority.

[westudi]

Not to be a party ****er, but I have zero interest in any of these packs being made epic or legendary. I share LittleLexi's opinion regarding The Pit though. That is my favorite quest, and I would love to see an epic/legendary version. I think maybe one-off quests like that would be more ideal rather than a pack or chain with one exception: Korthos.

I would genuinely love the idea of a Legendary chain in Korthos that culminates at Misery's Peak. Except this time, instead of being the party that goes right, we go left and fight the dragon etc.

Maybe epic Water Works also.

[Logicman69]

I would like to see them just continue the story of some of these in epic, rather than just make the content itself harder. The one I would like to see is Attack on Stormreach... lets go to Droaam and take the fight to them! New explorer area, new quests, a raid where we lead an attack on the Droaam command center.

[droid327]

In terms just of pure story, Attack on Stormreach would be fun to play through again on Epic, they're some unique and well-designed quests. Plus they just got a loot pass already. The only real drawback for me is the running around involved with Diplomatic Immunity, if you cant DDoor. I really like Blockade Buster, though - the mission is tight and feels like it really rewards different playstyles.

IQ/DD is another one that would be good to revisit at L29, considering its already at the end of Heroic. The quests are mostly fun on their own, if a bit lackluster for XP. Mindsunder is always fun, and it'd be nice to go back to face the purple name with Fatesinger capstone to defend against the rampant CHA damage Only thing I'd really dread is the "Defend your Will" part, that is such a slog, and frustrating in higher difficulties. Defending the kid in the first one is to a lesser extent, too, but at least you can see his HP and heal him. Failure conditions are always unwanted.

Many of the remaining packs I'm not too interested in rerunning per se, but I might want to see them revamped just purely because the attention might lead to them being updated and improved (both in Epic and Heroic), annoying old mechanics being addressed, XP modernized, etc.:

- Sorrowdusk getting a teleporter a la Stormhorns to eliminate the needless back and forth to the quest givers
- Tangleroot getting a teleporter so you can leave and come back between sessions, especially given its level range
- Necro 3, Tormented needs a total rethink
- Necro 2, maybe shrink the swimming maze map a little
- Threnal, make the escort NPCs unkillable so they're not failure conditions anymore
- Restless Isles...teleporter :P
- Madness chain: just no...Xoriat quests are the absolute worst. Beholders, and they always involve THE most iresome mechanics :P

[hit_fido]

Nothing there really excites me to consider having an epic version. They're better off churning out new quests. Personally I wouldn't even mind more quests that are epic only but I see the rationale for them to produce new quests that serve both heroic and epic ranges.

If I had to nominate any I'd probably say Sorrowdusk and Threnal as long as making them epic also included tweaking the heroic versions:

Sorrowdusk - old style quests without stupid massive clusters of mobs littering every path. Pretty good story line. The long running back and forth was the biggest hassle but mitigated by horses now; if they revisited this I'd expect it would give them a chance to at least add a teleporter or shorter path up to the second part of the chain. They could also make the final quest quite a bit more challenging in an epic version.

Threnal - Again old style quests with a good storyline, suffers from a somewhat confusing 3 part quest grouping that seems to hang up a lot of players. A revisit here would allow them to eliminate the escort mechanics, the boring 15 minutes coyle time sink, and turn the final quest into something significantly more challenging on epic (and heroic for that matter).

Also, Shavarath used to be the pinnacle of "tough" quests, it could be interesting to see how New Invasion would be as a level 32 quest... and maybe they could fix the dungeon alert garbage in Bastion.

[Kessaran]

[*] Seal of Shan to Kor (Base Levels 3/4/5, 4 quests, tiny wilderness zone) Too small, doesn't fit the theme of "Epic"
[*] Tangleroot Gorge (Base levels 3 to 7, 10 quests, small wilderness zone) +1
[*] Sharn Syndicate (Base level 4, 6 quests, no zone) Sharn
[*] Necropolis 1 (Base levels 5 & 6, 5 quests, no zone) Eh, Epic would work but I love Necro 1/2 being more of an introductory questline to more advanced undead, an Epic difficulty would also probably not be eye-catching enough.
[*] Sorrowdusk (Base levels 6 to 10, 10 quests, small wilderness zone) Honestly, i've only done this maybe twice since I started my TR spam. Too out of the way for the little experience and outdated loot. Maybe with a pass.
[*] Necropolis 2 (Base levels 8 & 9, 5 quests, no zone) See Necro 1
[*] Ruins of Threnal (Base levels 8 to 10?, 9 real quests, 4 sort of quests, pseudo-wilderness zone) +1
[*] Restless Isles (Base levels 10 to 12, 2 quests + pre-raid & raid, medium and confusing multi-level wilderness zone) +1, maybe Epic for quests/Legendary raids? Hmm
[*] Necropolis 3 (Base levels 11 to 12, 5 quests, no zone) +1, needs to be reworked as nobody runs most of these because of the Rat Maze. Fix that, fix the chain.
[*] Attack on Stormreach (Base level 13, 4 quests, no zone) +1
[*] Harbinger of Madness (Base level 15, 4 quests, no zone) +1, IF they made it level 24-26
[*] Reaver's Reach (Base level 17, 4 quests, 4 small wilderness zones) +1, very cool mechanics here (doomspheres are awesome). Legendary
[*] Reign of Madness (Base level 17, 4 quests, no zone) I got nothin for this one, don't think i've ever even played it.
[*] Path of Inspiration (Base level 18, 5 quests, no zone) +1, 24-26/25-27?
[*] Dreaming Dark (Base level 19 to 20, 5 quests, no zone) +1, 25-27
[*] Devils of Shavarath (Base level 19 to 20, 6 quests + Raid, medium wilderness zone) +1, more than likely either 21-23 or Legendary

Overall I would say Tangleroot Gorge would be my favorite for a rework/upgrade. It's still one of my favorite questlines to run and would make for some great content in epics. Could EASILY breach that awkward 24-26 gap.

[hit_fido]

I would genuinely love the idea of a Legendary chain in Korthos that culminates at Misery's Peak. Except this time, instead of being the party that goes right, we go left and fight the dragon etc.

I could get into that as a quest premise. Although dragon end fights seem pretty worn out now...

[thedip]

- Tangleroot getting a teleporter so you can leave and come back between sessions, especially given its level range

There is a teleporter/transporter to Chief Ungurz's camp. Just speak to Eremic Quall (the guy who gave you the original quest) after completing the initial quest to speak to Chief Ungurz. He will then teleport you from the Inn to Chief Ungurz's camp.

I have added a note on the wiki to make this clearer..

[hit_fido]

It's getting off topic but as two people mentioned it, I disagree that Tomb of the Tormented needs any changes. The rat maze is really not as hard as many players make it out to be, Maze 1 is trivial; maze 2 uses the same premise as the crucible only easier. Maze 3 has exactly two steps that you need to time - before and after that it's trivial. Just bring something you can kill the bad mobs with, disable the maze 3 traps and simplify it down to the single famished rat.

Aside from that, this quest is kind of a marvel of the DOO engine in my opinion. You basically have a standard dungeon but directly underneath you have a second mini dungeon only rats and wolves can move inside but that you can control. It's almost like you're programming the minimaze from above. I can't think of any other quest in DDO that's built like this one. Whoever at Turbine did Necro 2 and 3, it seems to me their mindset was how far they could push the dungeon design/scripting tools they had at the time in ways not commonly found in the rest of the game.

[Annex]

Good day, Aelonwy. Thank you for starting this thread. Unfortunately, as expected, the cats have already run in every direction. I question the wisdom of this approach but will run with it for now.

....

I suggest adding the following language to the original post:

In the Livestream on March 25, 2021, Severlin asked players to nominate the next Heroic Quest Pack to receive an Epic upgrade. At the very top of your response to this thread, please list the 5 Heroic Quest Packs you wish to see made Epic, in order from most to least desired.

1) Most Desired
2)
3)
4)
5) Least Desired

If you do not wish any developer time spent on this activity, please place at the top of your post, "I would prefer developer time spent on other activities."

After listing your preferences at the top of your post, please feel free to elaborate on your choices. Please keep all discussion pertinent to this topic, a Heroic Quest Pack receiving an Epic upgrade. If you wish to discuss some other matter, please make or select another thread for that purpose.

.....

Aelonwy, please feel free to modify the statement above as you see fit. Also, please list your 5 preferences.

[Aelonwy]

1) Most Desired: Ruins of Threnal
2) Attack on Stormreach
3) Harbinger of Madness
4) Restless Isles
5) Least Desired: Reaver's Reach

I really wanted to choose something from Inspired Quarter too but I only really love I Dream of Jeets and Dreaming Dark quests.

My first choice is Threnal because it needs its quest level variance redone entirely, it could use separate or resequencing of the chain so that its cleaner/more convenient to rerun or maybe since it will likely loose its chain end reward anyway just allowing the separate quest givers to allow reruns in any order. The wilderness zone could be made into a real wilderness zone and the mini-walk up quests could be turned into real quests or rares. Finally the end quest of Threnal could be made more expansive, and easily more epic by allowing us to go through the portal, have an in-Xoriat portion, with an objective to close the portal from the Xoriat side with a timer to go back to prime plane before it closes to finish quest.

Attack on Stormreach such a fun quest series, and feels unfinished with the Hag gloating about her ritual and getting away. Could use a new quest where we resolve whatever that ritual was supposed to have done. Could be a raid too I suppose.

Harbinger of Madness I love this quest series. That's it. Its just one of my favorites.

Restless Isles Like Threnal, the heroic version could use a lot of work. The wilderness zone needs a working map, maybe some map notes, the quests are long but different. Its a beautiful pack. The raid always seems to be some variation of broken.

Reaver's Reach Has some beautiful spots, some unique game-play, and interesting story. The last quest especially has an epic feel.

What are your preferences Annex?

[arminius]

1. Tangleroot
2. Shavarath
3. Shan To Kor
4. Threnal
5. Necro 3, because of the rat maze

I would question the necessity of it, because as I run ERs all the time, I see plainly that from the first moment of level 20 to cap at 30 the most efficient route is pillaging the heck out of Cogs/Sharn/Feywild and collecting the saga rewards. This goes even faster because it is easy to cache the saga rewards from the end of the previous life and start at 21-24 instead of 20.

I was excited about Deleras going epic but I only run it for "fun." So I have a feeling Tangleroot would be the same way.

Maybe if the level cap goes up, or if the ED revamp was more radical than I hope, this would change. Shavarath would be an interesting post-legendary quest series for sure.

[Annex]

What are your preferences Annex?

Please give me some time to put that together. I have an idea for framing this project within a larger Grande Plan and want to make sure everything fits together in the end.

[Sikaril_Shadowblade]

I would like to see these in epic around lvl 24 to 26 , items lvl 25 just because

1. Ruins of Threnal
2. Sorrowdusk
3. Tangleroot Gorge
4. Path of Inspiration
5. Sharn Syndicate

[Carpone]

If it doesn't have a raid, then I don't care about heroic->legendary content conversions.

1. Tower of Despair
2. Vault of Night
3. Demon Queen

[Baahb3]

I think maybe one-off quests like that would be more ideal.

I agree here. I think a true legendary Invaders quest would be fun to try. Make all the beholders Red named and pump up their HPs a bit, the portal ones Purple named.

Double the number of chaos balls. Champion Tharak hounds throwing cyclonic blast around in those narrow hallways.

Could be grand fun. Include some nice upgraded gear from there and I think people looking for a challenge would take it up.

[Marshal_Lannes]

1. I would prefer developers spend time on other activities (as in I'd rather have 5 new Ravenloft quests)
2. Attack on Stormreach
3. Stormcleave Outpost
4. Necropolis 1
5. (least) Devils of Shavarath

Reasoning - I believe it's already been stated that making old packs epic is harder to do than simply creating new content. They have built some wonderful worlds lately, I'd rather see those expanded upon rather than dusting off old chains. There are a whole host of Dark Lords that could be brought into Ravenloft now that Strahd has been defeated.

That said, I always felt the Droam storyline deserved a raid. IF a raid were added, this would be a fittingly epic chain. Next would be Stormcleave Outpost which has always felt fairly epic and could be given 2 pre-quests then turned into a proper epic raid. I've always liked the first necro chain and Bloody Crypt is an epic quest. My least wanted is Devils of Shavarath. They had their time, it's best to leave them as a relic of the past.

[Wizard1406]

1. Sorrowdusk, but with teleport NPC and the whole chain the same level to be played in one go (quest chains all the same level should be in heroics too IMHO); for level I prefer an easier lvl 26 quest, so you can make lvl 20-30 groups (if it's too easy for you, bump up the skulls)
2. Tangleroot (chain all same level, see above)
3. Attack on Stormreach
4. Sharn Syndicate
5. Reign of Madness, Shavarath and Necro 3 are all terrible to me.

[leesun]

1.) Restless Isles. I have a MIGHTY NEED for epic/legendary Shining Crescents
2.) The Pit. Not on the list, but needs to happen
3.) Ruins of Threnal. They can fix the progression glitch that sometimes happens, do a pass on heroic loot too,
4.) ?
5.) Sorrowdusk. They can do a loot pass. I hunger for an epic/legendary snowstar