First impressions of Abyss Warlock in Heroics

[vryxnr]

And finally, just finished a run from 1 to 20 using the Abyss Pact for warlock. I try to run everything on r1 to r4 depending on the quest. My focus at m is racial past lives (I'm not a completionist of anything and I only have a handful of reaper points).

My first impressions of Carceri and Celestial can be found in the hyperlinks in this sentence.

Undead are a pita, and are very common. Thankfully you don't heal them, but the immunity still cuts your dps significantly. Single target SLAs are good for orange and red named enemies, but do little when a hoard of a dozen undead are swarming you. Coming off of Carceri, it was nice to be able to DPS mephits and oozes again, BUT undead are not the only things immune to negative damage. Most Constructs are also immune. Also, any enemy caster who can cast Deathward (Blood Tide Spirit Walker's for example) make themselves and enemies near them immune as well. The Cunning Gelatinous Cube is also immune to negative energy damage.

The few constructs who are not immune (that I fought in my 1-20 journey this life) are: Animated Arms, Harmful Thoughts, Iron Defenders, and Multiplication Tables. All other constructs (animated or static) are immune. Most static constructs (alters in the Fire Caves in 3bc, Ballista, various crystals, shroud portals, etc) are also immune to Utterdark's Evil damage (though they still take the chaotic damage from Consume).

As such low and even mid heroics were painful. In Ravenloft there are lots of undead and lots of constructs (scarecrows are constructs and are thus immune). I actually had to lower the difficulty I normally run ravenloft at in order to maintain the pace I normally have, and I still used more shrines than usual due to killing enemies still taking longer and supplementing with tentacles often.

Halt Undead is... interesting? On paper it sounds like it'll help alot with the undead problem. Taking extra time to kill them due to essentially half damage vs them isn't bad if they are immobile and don't hit back... problem is, it isn't clear what undead are smart and thus get a save. Smart undead I found often do make their saves, and when they don't, you only get one free shot on them before they become active again. Non-intelligent undead don't et a save and stay dazed even when damaged for the duration of the spell, but apparently non-intelligent undead are few and far between. There have been many times where a non-descript skeleton or zombie was hit by Halt Undead and they got a save, and if they failed they became active right away again as if they were intelligent.

Abyss also suffers a bit of what Fey suffers, in that they have to split their skill points into two different skills in order to maximize their DPS potential. Negative Energy uses Heal, not Spellcraft (just like Sonic uses Perform, not spellcraft). With Fey it hurts, but not as badly due to almost nothing being outright immune to sonic damage. Abyss already has a huge number of enemies immune to it's damage. Fortunately for Abyss, it does have a belt that grants an Enhancement bonus to negative spell power (sonic does not). However, There are also limited options for Abyss warlock items for negative spell power (at least in low and mid heroics). Unless you farmed the clubs from the anniversary party, your options are limited. the ML 2 KotB weapon until (IF) you farm up some Slavers gear, then the ML 10 Barovian Scepter (which will be your source of Insightful spellpower as the ML 14 Orb that grants insightful negative spellpower is wizard exclusive and UMD does not let you bypass that restriction like it should... I used the Barovian Scepter all the way to 20 because there was nothing better).

At level 14 you gain Death Aura... which for level 14 is almost a waste of SP. the extra damage is relatively small and only in very close range to you. Once you get undead form at 15, then it becomes quite useful. The constant healing should your temp HP ever get depleted is nice. Unfortunately, Abyss Warlocks do not gain any burst negative spells for emergency healing. Like when a champion or Carnage reaper hits you for several hundred in one hit, the ticks of Death Aura will not be enough to undo that/save you.

In the high heroics, Abyss pact looks to work better as a warlock tank than DPS. Especially at 17+ when you can use the Dreadkeepers set. Normally Fiend Pact warlock tanks go for flamescleaned at 15, but the spellpower of that set lines up for them. Abyss don't have a medium armor set that lines up with their spellpower until Dreadkeepers at 17. Damage is still relatively slow, but you become much more survivable, especially with Enlightened Spirit investment. Not being able to use Celestial Spirit and Undead form at the same time is annoying, and means your DPS and hate-threat generation is lower than a Fiend Pact warlock tank, but it's still respectable and gains a bit more regular self healing via Death Aura. Of course, dreadkeeper is negative and force, so to keep Utterdark powerful you'll need to mix in the Hallowed Trail and Respendant Fury.

Rend the Soul, gained at 19, is really powerful so long as you're not fighting undead or constructs. I used it as extra Boss DPS, and it was a huge boon (especially after switching to and ES tank at 17). It's a shame it's cooldown is longer than it's duration, so maintaining it constantly is not perfectly possible, and stacking it (or hitting more than one enemy at a time with it) is impossible.

So in the end, I can see potential for Abyss Pact warlock tanks in late heroics and possibly epics. But for heroic leveling... no thanks.

[slarden]

I try to run everything on r1 to r4 depending on the quest. .

As such low and even mid heroics were painful. In Ravenloft there are lots of undead and lots of constructs (scarecrows are constructs and are thus immune). I actually had to lower the difficulty I normally run ravenloft at in order to maintain the pace I normally have, and I still used more shrines than usual due to killing enemies still taking longer and supplementing with tentacles often.

Can you post your build because I am struggling to understand how you are having such a hard time with warlock regardless of pact. Obviously sorc is more of an easy button with immunity bypass and I get that warlock requires more skill to play but by 12 you have eldritch wave and by 13 you have undeath to death and still have finger from tier 5. That's really where warlock turns the corner and becomes a power house. It wasn't long ago that people were talking about how warlock was stomping heroics and the biggest nerfs mainly impacted Enlightened Spirit which was never optimal for heroics anyhow.

There have been times when playing fiend I forgot to turn my pact back on after fighting iron golems and I was taking stuff down so fast I didn't realize I forgot to turn it back for many quests. I just can't see the damage type being a deal breaker although obviously negative is going to be weaker against undead.

I only have a handful of reaper points).

Perhaps I am jaded by this I mainly ran a ranged character for reapers early on and then mixed it up with warlock after I already had a decent # of points, but by level 10 and especially level 12 warlock seems very strong to me regardless of pact.

[vryxnr]

The purpose of this was to experience the pact in the actual game (as opposed to the theory crafting that sometimes misses the mark), so I focused on what each pact brings to the table and how it interacts with the game... in this case with a focus on heroic levels (1 through 20). I still complete low reaper without dying in every pact, but when it takes twice as long with more resources spent, it's painful. That isn't struggling. It's noticing the difference in how things play based on the pact. So rather than ignore the pact, I used them and their abilities to got an impression of how they works.

For build, I get to cone asap, then utterdark asap, then continue mostly with those two trees with some points in ES for extra light damage. Playstyle is blast (cone) my way through 1-20 with the goal of gaining racial past lives. Solo (no one carrying me). I do not have completionist, actually I barely have any past lives (of any tier) at all, and very few reaper points, so I don't get those power boosts to compensate. Rather than any random build where those past life and reaper power taking over, I have to actually rely on the class and it's abilities. And when they have slight variations in their ability to perform, for me, because I don't have all this backlog of build up extra power, it's noticeable.

In other pacts, I blast through 1-20 no problems. It usually takes me 6 days to get a life done, and that's with lots of real life distractions and ****ing around at the same time. In other pacts (abyss for example, as that is the focal point of this thread), there are trouble spots, as I'm pointing out with these threads. Your solutions do nothing for 1-11. The instakills don't work as well for me either as I don't have +9 spell pen from past lives (I have +0). That means to do that I have to take 3 feats to get less of a bonus (only +8), which between spell focuses for DCs and metamagics for sla damage, I don't have enough feats. You also encounter undead long before you gain access to Undeath to Death, and even when you do, it hit max of 4 at once, has a HUGE delay from casting to landing, and if they move, it misses, and it has a long *** cooldown. By the time I cast it from afar and hope it hits and hope they fail their saves and then have to deal with the survivors if there are more than 4 (which there often are), I could have cone blasted them to death several times over. That also doesn't help with constructs, which is another hurdle for Abyss pact as they are also immune. This isn't pre-changed Amber Temple R10 runs (which I was able to do on a first lifer on R10 back before the changes, so I do have experience using undeath to death to snipe undead at range, not like that is an accomplishment though as r10 amber was that easy once you know the quest/how it works). I'm also not running over-leveled so I can get full exp bonuses.

Many vets (based on the forums and in game conversations) have forgotten what it's like to be new, or even average but without uber completionists in all categories. In these pre-uber states, subtle differences like pacts can and do make noticeable differences. Not to the point of being unplayable as many sometimes claim, but it does have a noticeable effect for the majority. As those shifts can and do affect ones enjoyment. Also, even uber-min-maxers will notice differences as at their level small differences like this are what they often strive to utilize/mitigate for maximum performance in their chosen style, so even then this could be information that informed their choices. It's less impactful for them in the grand scheme of things, but those small differences can and do make a difference. ...unless of course your build of choice doesn't utilize any of this and focuses on something that is completely separate, like your DC warlock build is. Then this is irrelevant. But not everyone is able to play, able to build, or even likes, those builds. Some do of course, but some don't. I do not believe I am having "bad-wrong-fun". There is more than one way to play.

In my experience with how I build for cone blast dps, pact damage accounts for about half my dps. I try to maximize spellpower for both base and pact damage (force plus element until utterdark then it's light plus element). When my dps suddenly gets cut in half, yeah, I notice it. Of course, pact damage isn't the only thing that pacts bring to the table. When they are relevant I tried to cover them as well, though tbh a once time +1 to elemental resistance and a few extra points in one saving throw are harder to notice differences in.

[droid327]

I'm starting to think abyss needs a "use your neg spell power for chaos" modifier so you can drop utter dark and stay force...it aligns better with negative gear, but you still need your stricken/consume

Also I wish you'd run as an aura lock since that's really what I think the pact aligns itself best with.

[vryxnr]

I'm starting to think abyss needs a "use your neg spell power for chaos" modifier so you can drop utter dark and stay force...it aligns better with negative gear, but you still need your stricken/consume

Also I wish you'd run as an aura lock since that's really what I think the pact aligns itself best with.

I switched to that at 17+ with the dreadkeepers set (medium armor). it was very tanky.