Wisdom Mana Paladin ~ The Build that doesn't need to exist

[Strimtom]

Hello young people. Strimtom here back at you with another build idea. Listen to me blather on about this idea right here.



TL;DW

• Paladin is still fun
• Really strong in elite, much weaker in reaper
• Good in parties
• Not enough damage

In the video I talk extensively about the issue with KoTC. Here is a quick summary:

• Too many defensives
• Not enought melee power
• Cleaves don't use offhand weapons
• No hit chance or damage
• Tree too expensive

To fix it, I recommend either:

1. Add 5 melee power to core 5, 5 more melee power to Capstone, condense the 3 points of healing amp into 2 points that do 30 each and combine with energy drain. Shift some defensive into sacred defender.
2. Change light damage scaling into the same as EK, but scaling with light spellpower. Add attacks in tree that add light damage scaling off light spellpower.
3. Add a few spells into the paladin spell list that do light spell damage.

I say to use light spellpower mostly because if they just add 30 meleepower and +10 to hit and damage, people will just play this over fighter and it doesn't help paladin feel unique.

Mana Paladin
Paladin 20
Lawful Good Aasimar


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8. . . .+7. . . .4: WIS
Dexterity . . . 16. . . .+7. . . .8: WIS
Constitution. . 12. . . .+7. . . 12: WIS
Intelligence. . .8. . . .+7. . . 16: WIS
Wisdom. . . . . 20. . . .+7. . . 20: WIS
Charisma. . . . 14. . . .+7. . . 24: WIS
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: WIS

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Intim . . . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .19
UMD . . . . . . . . . . . . ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 10
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . 4. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4


Feats

.1. . . . : Two Weapon Fighting
.3. . . . : Completionist
.6. . . . : Knight's Training
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
12. . . . : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
15. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18. . . . : Precision


.1 Aasimar: Bond of the Fallen

.1 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
.6 Deity. : Unyielding Sovereignty


Spells

1. Cure Light Wounds (4), Divine Favor (6), Lesser Restoration (14), Bless (18)
2. Angelskin (8), Remove Paralysis (10), Resist Energy (16), Owl's Wisdom (19)
3. Cure Moderate Wounds (11), Prayer (12), Remove Curse (19), Remove Blindness (19)
4. Holy Sword (14), Zeal (15), Death Ward (19), Cure Serious Wounds (20)

Enhancements (80+10 AP)

Knight of the Chalice (46 AP)

• Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil II, Improved Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil III, Champion of Good
  1. Extra Turning II, Divine Light III, Extra Smite II
  2. Exalted Cleave III, Melee Power Boost III
  3. Improved Restoration III, Vigor of Life, Exalted Smite III
  4. Censure Demons, Vigor of Life, Empowered Smite
  5. Censure Outsiders, Holy Retribution III, Vigor of Life, Avenging Cleave III, Sealed Life

Falconry (28 AP)

• Snow Owl, Wisdom, Well Rounded
  1. Rugged I, Practiced Accuracy II, Hunter's Knowledge, Out in Nature III
  2. Killer Instinct I, Diving Strike I
  3. Killer Instinct II, Strike for the Eyes: Strike I, Conditioning, Eyes of the Eagle
  4. Deadly Instinct III, No Mercy III, Expose Weakness

Aasimar (16 AP)

• Stronger Bonds, Wisdom, Stronger Bonds II, Wisdom, Stronger Bonds III
  1. Fight the Wicked, Improved Recovery
  2. Fight the Wicked
  3. Fight the Wicked, Blessings I, Improved Recovery
  4. Divine Form

[Tilomere]

I say to use light spellpower mostly because if they just add 30 meleepower and +10 to hit and damage, people will just play this over fighter and it doesn't help paladin feel unique.

I think warpriest/warsoul/enlightened spirit already have dibs on adding light damage on hit. Maybe a mixture of melee power and good damage on hit? A 3.5 PnP KoTC is supposed to be able to channel the energy of the celestial planes of lawful good, and 3.5 Holy Sword is supposed to make a paladin's weapon good-aligned and deal good damage vs. evil.

Light Warriors is Final Fantasy! I'm also not sure you want to put all your eggs in paladin scaling into heroic damage procs. Heroic proc damage at cap even as powerful as EK is ... nice, but not powerful enough to carry a build.

Ty for your video! It captures the pros and cons of a TWF paladin very well and explains use and costs of falconry perfectly.

[AaronThePaladin]

I agree with quite a bit on this topic as well.

Paladins should have more of a splash to make them feel unique compared to the other melee classes. Vanguard and sacred defender are a hit or miss because Fighters get their own versions of those trees. But with regards to the KOTC, definitely they should have some kind of a better scaling rather than Melee power. Paladins don't get as large of a buff to that as say a fighter or Barbarian does. The idea for KOTC damage scaling to match light power is a good idea, or at least have it deal out good damage like in 3.5 pnp as Tilomere stated. The question is though; how to make Good damage scale. It could be a match to level or the religious lore feat; essentially a higher connection to a paladins deity would strengthen their damage to a specific source (Good or Light in this case)

I'm actually running a 14/6 Paladin Sorcerer right now for the Vanguard & Eldritch Knight trees. Its not a bad combination especially when EK gets the reductions to Spell Failure; running about 15% or so with Heavy armor, none with medium. When epics hit following the divine crusader for example where there are skills that scale with light and fire spell power; buffing up those two benefit for both that tree and the EK.
It's an odd build I think, haven't found too many examples with it and i'm still experimenting (casual player) but it seems to really add to the paladins viability. Hell, with the sorcerer spells you can focus in getting verbal spells to beef up your offensive and defensive capabilities and never worry about the spell failure unless you want to nab a few extra attack options. Plus the extra spell points from a high Charisma as a sorcerer are a bonus for the paladin.

All in all though; definitely Paladins needs another look at and a rework to their abilities from their trees and some movement or adjustments to what and where their sources are coming from. Makes them way more viable later on.

[Coffey]

Another option for Paladin is Inquisitive with falconry.

[Djjinni]

Another option for *everything* is Inquisitive with falconry.

Fixed for you

[Coffey]

Fixed for you

Thanks all classes in DDO are perfect now

[Alcides]

Not that sure about running a wisdom based paladin; however, here's my thoughts on paladin improvement.

- Paladin DPS should be strength based due to the need for hit/damage/tactical DC with Divine Might. I'd suggest taking the minimum dex possible for TWF with a +8 tome.
- The Completionist feat should be auto granted. A good time to do this would be right after alchemist is released since everyone would lose the completionist feat anyway.
- If there was a charisma based trance for paladins, PDK charisma to hit/damage/tactical DC might be able to compete with Aasimar.
- KoTC has many talents that are too costly or non-competitive in Reaper. There should be better scaling with Melee Power for paladin light damage.
- KoTC tree could use some trimming as far as some of the fluff in the tree that doesn't help such as extra turns, turn damage or vorpal stunning against all evil and not just evil outsiders.
- Paladin's do not have access to the true power spells from 3.5 that would be beneficial. I originally posted them here https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...aladin-Changes
Level 1
Devastating Smite (3.5 Forge of War) - Perform a smite evil against the target which deals an extra +2 [W] damage.
Rhino Rush (3.5 Spell Compendium) - Charge up to 30 feet to the target enemy and deal +2 [W] weapon damage to them.
Strategic Charge (3.5 Spell Compendium) - Gain the benefits of the Mobility feat. Duration: 1 minute per caster level.

Level 2
Divine Presence (3.5 Complete Champion) - Gain an insight bonus to intimidate checks of 1 plus you caster level divided by 2 rounded down. Duration: 1 minute per caster level.
Fell the Greatest Foe (3.5 Draconomicon) - When damaging an enemy, gain +1 [W] per size category that the enemy is bigger than you. Duration: 6 seconds per caster level.
Knight's Move (3.5 Spell Compendium) - Teleport up to 5 feet per caster level behind the targetted enemy.
Shield Other (3.5 Player's Handbook) - Reduce the damage taken by a target ally within 30 feet by half. When that ally takes damage you suffer the same amount of damage as physical damage reduced by your PRR. Duration: 6 seconds per caster level.
Shield of Warding (3.5 Spell Compendium) - While enchanted by Shield of Warding and wearing a shield you gain a +1 Sacred bonus to the enhancement bonus of your shield and +1 Sacred bonus to reflex saves plus an additional +1 per 5 caster levels. Duration: 1 minute per caster level.
Smite of the Sacred Flame (3.5 Forge of War) - When you use a smite attack against a target increase the damage by +2 [W]. Duration: 1 minute per caster level.

Level 3
Deific Bastion (3.5 Spell Compendium) - Increase the enhancement bonus of your shield by 1 plus 1 per 5 caster levels. Duration: 1 minute per caster level.
Diamond Steel (3.5 Spell Compendium) - While wearing metal armor you gain +1 PRR per 3 points of your Armor Bonus rounded up to a maximum bonus equal to your caster level. Duration: 1 minute per caster level.
Find the Gap (3.5 Draconomicon) - Your base attack bonus is equal to your character level. Duration: 6 seconds per caster level.
Righteous Fury (3.5 Spell Compendium) - Gain a +6 Sacred bonus to Strength. Duration: 1 minute per caster level.

Level 4
Divine Retaliation (3.5 Player's Handbook 2) - When you take melee damage from an enemy, you make a free attack with your main hand weapon against that enemy. Duration: 6 seconds per caster level.
Glory of the Martyr (3.5 Magic of Faerun) - Reduce the damage taken of all allies within 30 feet by half. When one of those allies takes damage you suffer the same amount of damage as physical damage reduced by your PRR. Duration: 1 second per character level.
Righteous Aura (3.5 Spell Compendium) - You gain the effects of the Daylight spell and a +4 sacred bonus to Charisma. When you die deal 1d6 damage per caster level to evil enemies within 30 feet, and heal all allies within 30 feet for the same amount. Undead take double damage. You cannot be brought back to life with the Raise Dead spell. Duration: 1 minute per caster level.
Unmovable Object (3.5 Ghostwalk) - Gain +2 Strength, +4 Constitution, +2 saving throws, +4 AC and immunity to *ALL* knockdown and trip effects. Duration: 6 seconds per caster level.

[Komradkillingmachine]

Just play a Vanguard in Fury...

There, Pally DPS fixed. Enjoy!

[Coffey]

This doesnt help matters:

Vanguard Enhancement Tree

Shield Specialization I: While shield equipped, +1 to hit, +1 damage, and +1 to armor class.
Minor bug: Shield Specialization I does not provide the damage.

Shield Specialization II: While shield equipped, +1 to hit, +1 damage, and +1 to armor class.
Minor bug: Shield Specialization II does not provide the damage.

Shield Specialization III: While shield equipped, +1 to hit, +1 damage, and +1 armor class.
Minor bug: Shield Specialization III does not provide the damage.

Shield Specialization IV: While shield equipped, +1 to hit, +1 damage, and +1 armor class.
Minor bug: Shield Specialization IV does not provide the damage.

[dom_keno]

you wont need knights training anymore in the kotc tree you get it free now in the next update

[PurpleTimb]

How would you change this now that Update 45 has changed KOTC? Would it be worthwhile to change to greatsword now?

[Alcides]

Don't play this build as the OP said it doesn't need to exist especially since U45 fixed KoTC for the most part. More optimal to focus STR and Divine Might or CHA and Divine Might (PDK Only). Wisdom is a dump stat for paladins and always has been since February 2006.