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  1. #1
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    Default Update 42.4 - What's really happening to experience

    TL;DR

    1. Heroic quests give +100% BB if you are up to base level +2 and +50% BB if you are any number of levels above 2 over base.
    2. Epic quests give +100% BB if you are up to base level +4 and +50% BB if you are any number of levels above 4 over base.
    3. Heroic quests give 100% RXP if you are up to base level +3 and 90% RXP (so a 10% penalty) if you are 4 levels above base.
    4. Epic quests give 100% RXP if you are up to base level +6 and cannot be entered if you are more than 6 levels above base.








    So if you have not had a chance to read the update notes here they are: https://www.ddo.com/en/update-424-release-notes


    The big question is what exactly is happening to experience in various level ranges?

    So we know that before the patch you had to be at base level to get full reaper experience and within base +2 if you wanted full Bravery Bonus.

    According to the patch notes, for heroic quests, you get full reaper experience if you are within base +3, a -10% penalty if you are base +4, and cannot enter the dungeon if you are more than 4 levels over the base level of the quest (so there is no way to ever get more than a -10% reaper experience penalty in a heroic quest).


    To test BB I went into a quest on R1 that I had never been in before and got 10 kills to see the reaper experience.

    Quest: The Archons’ Trial

    Base level 13 quest, run on R1 by a level 15 character (+95% first time reaper bonus, +100% bravery bonus, +50% Tome of Learning)

    20,805 experience (22,230 with daily playthrough bonus) – 338 reaper exp (without daily bonus)

    Same quest on R1 as a level 16 character (+95% first time reaper bonus, +50% bravery bonus, +50% Tome of Learning)

    17,955 experience (19,350 with daily playthrough bonus) - 338 RXP (without daily bonus)

    Same quest on R1 as a level 17 character (+95% first time reaper bonus, +50% bravery bonus, +50% Tome of Learning, -10% over level penalty)

    17,385 experience (18,810 with daily playthrough bonus) - 306 RXP (without daily bonus)

    So apparently you still get 50% BB for running a quest on R1 when 3 or 4 levels above base (full RXP for 3 levels and -10% RXP for 4 levels).


    Epic quests are even more confusing. Before this patch, level 20 epic quests got full bravery bonus if you were up to 3 levels above the quest (i.e. levels 20 to 23) and quests above level 20 had a 4 level spread (e.g. a level 21 quest gave full BB up to level 25, while a level 24 quest gave full BB up to level 28). How does BB work for epics now? Is it exactly the same level range as before? Is it more narrow or wide a range?

    When it comes to epic BB it appears that the current way it is working is you get a 100% bonus to BB when running on elite or reaper as long as you not more than 4 levels above the base level of the quest. This is similar to before the update except that it used to be you only got BB when within 3 levels of base for level 20 quests.

    The other change is that if you are more than 4 levels above the base level of the epic quest you get a +50% BB bonus when running the quest on elite or reaper. For heroic quests you get +50% BB when running more than 2 levels above base.



    All epic quests appear to give 100% reaper experience for all levels (as long as you are no more than 6 levels above base and thus can still enter the quests), as shown in post #14 of this thread. Feel free to post your confirmation (or a different situation if you experience something different) as well.

    Post whatever you discover when you get a chance so we can all know what we are really dealing with.
    Last edited by erethizon; 08-16-2019 at 02:08 PM. Reason: Adding information as we discover things

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    So if you have not had a chance to read the update notes here they are: https://www.ddo.com/en/update-424-release-notes

    The big question is what exactly is happening to experience in various level ranges?

    So we know that before the patch you had to be at base level to get full reaper experience and within base +2 if you wanted full Bravery Bonus.

    According to the patch notes, for heroic quests, you get full reaper experience if you are within base +3, a -10% penalty if you are base +4, and cannot enter the dungeon if you are more than 4 levels over the base level of the quest (so there is no way to ever get more than a -10% reaper experience penalty in a heroic quest).


    There was some confusion about Bravery Bonus on the test server so when someone gets a chance to test it out on live please let us know what happens to bravery bonus if you are more than 2 levels above the base level of the quest. Specifically, while you get full reaper experience if you are base +3, what happens to your bravery bonus if you are base +3? Do you lose all 100% of the bonus or does it just drop partially? What about if you are 4 levels, 5 levels, or more above the base of the quest? Assuming 100% of the bravery bonus does not disappear as soon as you are 3 levels above the base level of the quest, do you get a hit to both base experience and bravery bonus experience for being 4+ levels above a quest or just one of them?
    .

    Bravery bonus has never affected rxp only normal xp so you get full rxp at +3 but less normal xp due to losing bravery bonus - optimal levelling will therefore be +2 for maximum xp and rxp bonusses

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caarb View Post
    Bravery bonus has never affected rxp only normal xp so you get full rxp at +3 but less normal xp due to losing bravery bonus - optimal levelling will therefore be +2 for maximum xp and rxp bonusses
    That would be my assumption as well, though someone reported getting full BB (and RXP) at level 19 on a level 16 Vale quest on the test server. I assume this was a bug that was fixed, but we will find out for sure in a few hours when the server goes live.

    The heroic situation will be relatively easy to figure out. Epic quests are far more confusing. If we get full BB when we are 4 levels above the base level of an epic quest, will we get a 10% RXP penalty or will there not be a penalty since we are still in BB range? I can guess answers to most of the questions in the original post, but I look forward to having all the facts soon (and having them all posted in a place where everyone can easily find them). The number of questions people still have about the experience changes in the thread that announced the patch earlier today shows that they didn't do a good enough job of explaining exactly what will happen.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    That would be my assumption as well, though someone reported getting full BB (and RXP) at level 19 on a level 16 Vale quest on the test server. I assume this was a bug that was fixed, but we will find out for sure in a few hours when the server goes live.

    The heroic situation will be relatively easy to figure out. Epic quests are far more confusing. If we get full BB when we are 4 levels above the base level of an epic quest, will we get a 10% RXP penalty or will there not be a penalty since we are still in BB range? I can guess answers to most of the questions in the original post, but I look forward to having all the facts soon (and having them all posted in a place where everyone can easily find them). The number of questions people still have about the experience changes in the thread that announced the patch earlier today shows that they didn't do a good enough job of explaining exactly what will happen.

    Bravery Bonus not restricted by range was confirmed as a bug on Lamm I expect it was fixed before being pushed to live. For Epic the notes do not give sufficient information it could be +3 for full rxp same as heroic compared to +3/+4 for bravery or there could be no overlevel penalties (just a max range) as normal xp has no overlevel penalties in epic - will have to wait and see.

  5. #5
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    There were many people on Lam stating that bravery bonus is excluded in the rxp calculation. I was hoping the devs would correct or confirm that statement (was repeated numerous times in the official thread), but they remained silent.

    So if bravery is not included in rxp but first time and daily bonuses are:

    first time bonus decreasing from 120 to 95: -25
    bravery bonus going from 80 to 100 (release note says 70 wiki says 80 - I think wiki is right): +20
    Daily bonus going up 5%: +5

    Nets to 0, but if bravery is excluded from rxp as people state it's a net effect of -20% bonus on first time completions and a 5% increase on rxp for repeats (presumably mostly at cap). This isn't total xp so once you factor in all the bonuses you would possibly be taking a 5% hit in total rxp the first time and maybe a 2% increase in rxp if staying at cap and not getting first time bonuses.

    Bottom line: Not much of a difference at all. It would be great if the devs confirm whether or not bravery bonus is included in rxp calcs.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    Bottom line: Not much of a difference at all. It would be great if the devs confirm whether or not bravery bonus is included in rxp calcs.
    They probably don't know, but the bottom line is imho important.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    There were many people on Lam stating that bravery bonus is excluded in the rxp calculation. I was hoping the devs would correct or confirm that statement (was repeated numerous times in the official thread), but they remained silent.

    So if bravery is not included in rxp but first time and daily bonuses are:

    first time bonus decreasing from 120 to 95: -25
    bravery bonus going from 80 to 100 (release note says 70 wiki says 80 - I think wiki is right): +20
    Daily bonus going up 5%: +5

    Nets to 0, but if bravery is excluded from rxp as people state it's a net effect of -20% bonus on first time completions and a 5% increase on rxp for repeats (presumably mostly at cap). This isn't total xp so once you factor in all the bonuses you would possibly be taking a 5% hit in total rxp the first time and maybe a 2% increase in rxp if staying at cap and not getting first time bonuses.

    Bottom line: Not much of a difference at all. It would be great if the devs confirm whether or not bravery bonus is included in rxp calcs.
    First time bonus for rxp is separate to normal xp the changes to first time for normal xp should not affect rxp this seems to agree with the testing on Lam. On Live first time xp (on reaper) = 120% first time rxp = 200% (bravery bonus and bravery streak baked into first time bonus rather than being calculated separately - this benefits players as it allows you to run heroic and epic versions of quests without losing rxp.

  8. 08-13-2019, 06:55 AM


  9. 08-13-2019, 06:59 AM


  10. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    And, for the most confusing part of all
    Last edited by Lagin; 08-13-2019 at 07:18 AM.

  11. #9
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    Nice QoL changes! the level range for the LFM is nice
    And for me I think xp will be slightly more and a lot faster
    The small fix to how the soundburst sla targets is nice, unfortunately its DC is so low why would you ever use it?

    Im just glad they didnt buff that EA destiny and make light damage divines even more UBER....

  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    There were many people on Lam stating that bravery bonus is excluded in the rxp calculation. I was hoping the devs would correct or confirm that statement (was repeated numerous times in the official thread), but they remained silent.

    So if bravery is not included in rxp but first time and daily bonuses are:

    first time bonus decreasing from 120 to 95: -25
    bravery bonus going from 80 to 100 (release note says 70 wiki says 80 - I think wiki is right): +20
    Daily bonus going up 5%: +5

    Nets to 0, but if bravery is excluded from rxp as people state it's a net effect of -20% bonus on first time completions and a 5% increase on rxp for repeats (presumably mostly at cap). This isn't total xp so once you factor in all the bonuses you would possibly be taking a 5% hit in total rxp the first time and maybe a 2% increase in rxp if staying at cap and not getting first time bonuses.

    Bottom line: Not much of a difference at all. It would be great if the devs confirm whether or not bravery bonus is included in rxp calcs.
    Reaper experience gets a 200% first time bonus that is completely separate from the listed first time bonus on the experience breakdown. Much like the way that reaper experience penalties for being over the base level were never shown on the experience breakdown, this 200% bonus was also never shown. Decreasing the first time bonus for regular experience from 120 to 95 should have no impact on the 200% bonus that RXP gets and BB should continue to have no effect on RXP so we should be seeing an increase in RXP for all quests all the time because of the increase in daily playthrough bonus (which is the only thing that is changing that has an impact on RXP).

  13. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lagin View Post
    I read the release notes just fine. I agree with all those things and have been excited for this patch since the moment it was announced (I've been the most vocal of the supporters for this update). What I'm reading is that the release notes never answered the plethora of questions that we, the players, had about exactly how these changes would work, especially for epic quests. They talked about RXP no longer getting a penalty when in the appropriate level range for running elite, so that should mean that we get no RXP penalty in epic quests if within 3 or 4 levels of base, but they never confirmed it. The kept using the same heroic quest examples and never bothered to mention an epic quest even once. Epic quests never get an over level penalty so does that mean epic reaper never gets an over level penalty either?

  14. 08-13-2019, 08:34 AM

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  15. #12
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    I've asked, and seen others ask multiple times now for clarification on reaper xp and epics. So far it's been silent. Now that the servers are back up I may just log in and try to figure it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    I've asked, and seen others ask multiple times now for clarification on reaper xp and epics. So far it's been silent. Now that the servers are back up I may just log in and try to figure it out.
    Much appreciated. I plan to verify things are working as we assume with heroics as the first thing I do when I log in, but I don't have the ability to test epics myself at the moment.

  17. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    Much appreciated. I plan to verify things are working as we assume with heroics as the first thing I do when I log in, but I don't have the ability to test epics myself at the moment.
    I broke down and did some tests. My results are in another thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    Alright I finally broke down and did some testing.

    I took my level 30 and stepped into several quests, I did not complete, only did R1, and only killed 10 mobs to see what the reaper xp said.

    I ran a level 24 (26 on reaper) quest that I had run on reaper before.
    Base Reaper XP: 122 (As expected)
    Xp after 10 kills: 174


    The I ran a level 24 quest that I had not run on reaper before (but had run on elite)
    Base Reaper XP: 122
    XP after 10 kills: 466

    Level 26 quest I had run on elite but not reaper
    Base Reaper XP: 128
    Xp after 10 kills: 489

    Finally I ran a level 26 quest I had never run before. I was given a bravery bonus of +50%, it should have been +100% according to the release notes? (or none if I was overlevel)
    Base Reaper XP: 128
    Xp after 10 kills: 489


    So as near as I can tell there are no longer penalties to reaper xp in epics, just the 6 level lockout. That opens up a lot more options for getting reaper xp while epic leveling. It also allow players new to reaper to play lower levels quests at cap to start earning some reaper xp until they gain confidence.

    Oh and if any devs who think we enjoy figuring this stuff out read this. I hated it, I would have much rather been actually playing for the last hour instead of figuring out what should have been an easily answered question.
    Basically reaper xp penalties seem to no longer apply in epics (just like for normal xp)
    Bravery bonus seems to be doing something weird through and needs more testing. (Hard for me to do as my character is almost maxed on favor.)

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    I also posted in another thread, but it might make more sense to have more in one thread instead of spreading it out...

    Does this mean, and maybe it did before and I just didn't understand it, that you can run a quest in heroics on reaper, and then do it again in Epics/Legendary and not take an rxp hit?

    I mean, you always got the +120 for first time bonus to normal xp, even if you did it in heroics. You just didn't get the BB/streak bonus. I assumed, like others, that that BB/streak bonus affected rxp too. Either way, it sounds like it doesn't anymore.

    So can I do ravenloft/sharn/memoirs/etc in heroics on reaper, and then do them at cap without taking a hit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShamgarSlamaden View Post
    I also posted in another thread, but it might make more sense to have more in one thread instead of spreading it out...

    Does this mean, and maybe it did before and I just didn't understand it, that you can run a quest in heroics on reaper, and then do it again in Epics/Legendary and not take an rxp hit?

    I mean, you always got the +120 for first time bonus to normal xp, even if you did it in heroics. You just didn't get the BB/streak bonus. I assumed, like others, that that BB/streak bonus affected rxp too. Either way, it sounds like it doesn't anymore.

    So can I do ravenloft/sharn/memoirs/etc in heroics on reaper, and then do them at cap without taking a hit?
    Yes you were able to get full rxp if you did the quest in heroics and epics before the patch (this is how we knew bravery didn't affect rxp)

  20. #17
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    What happened to XP? Allow me to demonstrate with this sack full of puppies and a river.
    "Shut up and die like a wizard"

  21. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    I broke down and did some tests. My results are in another thread.



    Basically reaper xp penalties seem to no longer apply in epics (just like for normal xp)
    Bravery bonus seems to be doing something weird through and needs more testing. (Hard for me to do as my character is almost maxed on favor.)
    Which thread did you post in? If there is another place I can gather information on this topic please let me know (I'm trying to make this thread an easy place to fully understand the experience changes so people will know the impact of level range on grouping now).

  22. #19
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    Updated first post to inform people that you always get at least 50% BB even if you are 3 or 4 levels above quest in heroics and Epic quests give full RXP with no penalty no matter what level you are.

    When it comes to RXP you can never get more than a 10% penalty (for when you are 4 levels above a heroic quest). In all other cases you will get either full RXP or be unable to enter the quest.

  23. #20
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    aren't we mixing bravery streak with bravery bonus?
    psykopeta is finally baconpletionist because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS: I post only in the latest thread shown in main page, in the weird case u want something from me, feel free to send pm

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