Lh thth

[Ilindith]

Grats on getting a run done with 11 people.

[Shadow_Jumper]

Get off your high horses people.

Every raid should be easily completed by the average pug (assuming good teamwork and with just a little knowledge of the raid mechanics (ideally from knowledge available in the game itself.)

That should be the benchmark for normal difficulty.

It can be. The disconnect is that the raid mechanics are so simple that people are becoming flabbergasted that people are still having trouble on N.

I was in the pug that Wipey was talking about up thread. We tried LH without a tank just for kicks. We made it to the 3rd phase puzzles without a tank on our first attempt.

[Arkat]

With a bit of prep work, I find this to be one of the easiest and more straight-forward raids to run on reaper.
Have electrical energy sheath.
Have electrical absorption item.
Share and step on runes every 2-4 lightning bolts.
Stay together as a group with one person sneaking up ahead to unlock the gates.

Yes, yes, I have and do all that. My RSOer is even a Dragonborn Warlock of Blue Dragon descent.

I've got all the Electrical resist and absorb in the world. The raid is still punishing and ISN'T FUN!

[Quikster]

Yes, yes, I have and do all that. My RSOer is even a Dragonborn Warlock of Blue Dragon descent.

I've got all the Electrical resist and absorb in the world. The raid is still punishing and ISN'T FUN!

I think what many are not understanding is you can be someone who completes the raids on harder difficulties and still not enjoy it or think the difficulty needs to lowered.

[cru121]

https://ddowiki.com/page/Too_Hot_to_Handle

yep, all kinds of great information in here

if you scroll enough, there's a link to a reddit thread. The link is there already over one month (originally with lama info), and the guide has been updated few days ago.

[Shadow_Jumper]

After running the raid this morning when the changes went live, and reading more arguments about right of completion due to paying (sounds kinda p2w imo) I stand by my final recommendation from the general discussion thread;

Change LN to simply be; “solve the puzzles once, raid ends”

Have it drop 10-15 runes/threads, and sell Tier 4 raid timer bypasses for 500 ddop.

Accessibility solved for those who have no hope of even bothering to be discomforted by making an even halfway decent raid build with fire absorb and sheathe.

Let’s see if Flimsy’s prediction that people would just farm a lever pull until their eyes bleed comes true, and those who care about challenging content can run Hard+

[Loromir]

I would say I spend upwards of $1k on this game in a year and still believe it's a steal with all the endless hours of entertainment I get out of it. You can't sell me on the idea of casual gamers spending that kind of money on a single game.

You are what they affectionately call a "whale". Very few people, even the most active will spend that kind of money in a single year. I consider myself casual (compared to the amount I played 5+ years ago). I play about 10 hours per week. Maybe some wouldn't call that casual, I do. I'm also VIP and have been since 2010 (not one single lapse in membership) and have bought my fair share of DDO points and the top level of all four expansion packs. I'm a casual player who has spent a lot of money on the game over the past 9+ years.

So I counter..."you can't sell me on the idea" of ANYBODY spending that kind of money on a single game other than the very top 1% (or less). And yes...the game needs to appeal to them...and there are 11 levels of difficulty that should appeal directly to them and not the rest of the casuals. Leave some scraps please(Normal and Hard difficulty) for us dirty casuals. You whales can go play in your own sandbox (LE -R10).

[Loromir]

.... Although I would be curious to see what build you are running that you are having such troubles with the content :P

My main is a Tempest Khopesh build. I have the part of the family set. I have the Khopesh from Strahd raid (Slotted with Prowess set)...a few other decent RL items. I don't have a minor artifact slotted yet. I still use RNG bracers, an ML 15 Helm and a couple other sub optimal items. I have 25 heroic past lives, most Iconic past lives x3, a few epic past lives.

I handle most non raid content on EE/LE without much trouble. I have run and have lead plenty of successful Baba and Strahd raids. I've participated (not led) in many successful Killing Time raids on LN-LE.

I have not had much trouble with most content until THTH came around. Now, I can't even get into THTH, no one can except the top 20 or so players on the server...everyone else gets "filtered".

[Quikster]

You are what they affectionately call a "whale". Very few people, even the most active will spend that kind of money in a single year. I consider myself casual (compared to the amount I played 5+ years ago). I play about 10 hours per week. Maybe some wouldn't call that casual, I do. I'm also VIP and have been since 2010 (not one single lapse in membership) and have bought my fair share of DDO points and the top level of all four expansion packs. I'm a casual player who has spent a lot of money on the game over the past 9+ years.

So I counter..."you can't sell me on the idea" of ANYBODY spending that kind of money on a single game other than the very top 1% (or less). And yes...the game needs to appeal to them...and there are 11 levels of difficulty that should appeal directly to them and not the rest of the casuals. Leave some scraps please(Normal and Hard difficulty) for us dirty casuals. You whales can go play in your own sandbox (LE -R10).

Here's the bottom line. These people want players like you to not have access to the raid, and others like it (End Game). It doesn't matter what the reality of the situation is, if you cant git gud enough to complete harder content, you shouldn't be able to play it. They want the rewards for themselves. I am curious as to why though. Is there some benefit they imagine they have versus the people that haven't been able to complete the raid (versus get into it)?

[Loromir]

Here's the bottom line. These people want players like you to not have access to the raid, and others like it (End Game). It doesn't matter what the reality of the situation is, if you cant git gud enough to complete harder content, you shouldn't be able to play it. They want the rewards for themselves. I am curious as to why though. Is there some benefit they imagine they have versus the people that haven't been able to complete the raid (versus get into it)?

It just baffles me as to what they think the point is to various difficulty levels.

Normal has a very low drop rate for named items...so it's unlikely that we dirty casuals are going to ever get all best in slot gear...therefore we will always be "not gud". I guess they somehow see us as some sort of threat....I have no idea why.


Either way...their opinion ultimately doesn't matter...because the opinion that does matter is SSG's....SSG agrees that even the dirty casuals should get to play the game (yes even the raids).

[Loromir]

....they didn't deserve to raid.

This here is the crux of the whole issue. The elitist attitude that someone doesn't "deserve" to raid.

[Clemeit]

We will be interested to hear people's feedback if they run it in the next couple of days. My suspicion is it's still no cakewalk, just more doable, and maybe now doable by DDO's elite raiders on Elite?

It's literally a cake walk now. Like an absolute 9-minute joke.

Thanks for completely ruining the "hardest" raid in the game by caving into pressure from players who have absolutely no interest in bettering their characters to meet a challenge. Now everybody has easy access to the best gear in the game without a shred of work. Naked characters? No problem. Absolutely no strategy? Step right up. We had something good. No longer.

Also, please demote the raid to a Tier 2 raid. It has absolutely no place being in a class of its own any longer.

Sincerely, the raiding community.

[scut207]

It's literally a cake walk now. Like an absolute 9-minute joke.

Thanks for completely ruining the "hardest" raid in the game by caving into pressure from players who have absolutely no interest in bettering their characters to meet a challenge. Now everybody has easy access to the best gear in the game without a shred of work. Naked characters? No problem. Absolutely no strategy? Step right up. We had something good. No longer.

Also, please demote the raid to a Tier 2 raid. It has absolutely no place being in a class of its own any longer.

Sincerely, the raiding community.

This bothers me a bit. that the pendulum swings so far.

Old time everquest/WoW player. Man these people have no idea how much effort and time went into gearing and or leveling a character was spent just to work through several raids with flagging required in sequence to be a top tier raider. Years devoted to a character. 1 to 4 good drops shared among 40 or more players. Gearing a Guild to advance to the next step so the tank could take the damage, the clerics to have the mana, the dps to meet the kill time before the Boss just went into god mode and wiped the whole raid. 1 miss step by one person in the party of 40 could wipe the whole raid. Trash respawns shared zones ect ect.

Guilds Kill stealing bosses. DRAMA.

Paying is the ability to play and enter. It doesn't entitle you to jack as far as completions. No one is saying you're not wanted but why play if its not to challenge yourself. Where's the accomplishment in completing it on ezmode? Watch a live feed or youtube and click at your keyboard.

Also, VIP with all expansions casual, never set foot in it. Why? I know my limit play in the league I can hit the speed of the pitch. There has to be something to work for to keep the interest up. other wise the grind is just the grind.

[banjo174]

This bothers me a bit. that the pendulum swings so far.

Old time everquest/WoW player. Man these people have no idea how much effort and time went into gearing and or leveling a character was spent just to work through several raids with flagging required in sequence to be a top tier raider. Years devoted to a character. 1 to 4 good drops shared among 40 or more players. Gearing a Guild to advance to the next step so the tank could take the damage, the clerics to have the mana, the dps to meet the kill time before the Boss just went into god mode and wiped the whole raid. 1 miss step by one person in the party of 40 could wipe the whole raid. Trash respawns shared zones ect ect.

Guilds Kill stealing bosses. DRAMA.

Paying is the ability to play and enter. It doesn't entitle you to jack as far as completions. No one is saying you're not wanted but why play if its not to challenge yourself. Where's the accomplishment in completing it on ezmode? Watch a live feed or youtube and click at your keyboard.

Also, VIP with all expansions casual, never set foot in it. Why? I know my limit play in the league I can hit the speed of the pitch. There has to be something to work for to keep the interest up. other wise the grind is just the grind.

Exactly, I would love to see these whiners try to go back and play in classic wow, back when games were actually challenging. Back when games were actually good. Heck... Games like OSRS (Old school runescape) are more challenging than the average MMO these days, and OSRS is rocking it in with over 100k active players.

World of Warcraft has been dropping players forever now, because they keep trying to appeal to the whiners who want to run the hard content, but can't handle it. Anthem is another example that died basically on release, Anthem was created to basically appeal to these whiners who want EZmode. Well, the whiners hit max level within a couple weeks of launch, got all the max gear, and now they're bored, because theres nothing to work towards.

If a game appeals to the EZmode crybaby, then the game will die.

[entropyspinner]

We will be interested to hear people's feedback if they run it in the next couple of days. My suspicion is it's still no cakewalk, just more doable, and maybe now doable by DDO's elite raiders on Elite?

Ran it with the guild on hard, easy completion.
Ran it without the guild on normal, easy completion.
Didn't have to think through much or needed to coordinate.
Have enough runes to trade for the one item I was interested in.

The novelty and the challenge is gone. Can't find much use for it anymore other than to relegate this to the list of raids which I occasionally use to farm threads. Making it not much more than a farming quest.

No longer a motivator to help the server population challenge themselves with the ease of it as it is.

Frees up more time for real life stuff.

[entropyspinner]

So I counter..."you can't sell me on the idea" of ANYBODY spending that kind of money on a single game other than the very top 1% (or less).

Poker

[Shadow_Jumper]

Which on another note, we could always look at what other hobbies you have, that you spend money on every year. How about the movies, going on dates, reading, something else? Im sure you are spending more on hobbies than you can even begin to comprehend.

Motor sports (had a friend who spent a TON of money on bikes, jeeps, and jet skis)
Sky diving.
Diving diving.
Gun peeps (Americans love to shoot $300 worth of ammo in 4 hours)
Fourth of July.
Movies are something like $10 a ticket where I live now.
English football games are getting super expensive I hear.
$1000-3000 Super Bowl tickets.
In my case....cologne and sunglasses.

[banjo174]

Motor sports (had a friend who spent a TON of money on bikes, jeeps, and jet skis)
Sky diving.
Diving diving.
Gun peeps (Americans love to shoot $300 worth of ammo in 4 hours)
Fourth of July.
Movies are something like $10 a ticket where I live now.
English football games are getting super expensive I hear.
$1000-3000 Super Bowl tickets.
In my case....cologne and sunglasses.

Yep lol... Lots of people don't dare look at the money they spend themselves in a year, and instead just go on to judge other people.

[cdbd3rd]

It has been a while since I've read a thread so full of elitism and insults that stayed alive this long.

I don't recall ever seeing any of us Casuals tell the Elitists they need to "get out" or that they don't belong here. Nor then should we have to tolerate such from them.


As some have tried to point out along the way, there ARE difficulty settings for a reason.

...<redacted>

[Quikster]

It has been a while since I've read a thread so full of elitism and insults that stayed alive this long.

I don't recall ever seeing any of us Casuals tell the Elitists they need to "get out" or that they don't belong here. Nor then should we have to tolerate such from them.


As some have tried to point out along the way, there ARE difficulty settings for a reason.

...<redacted>

Meh. If they need to result to insults...not really my problem.