Color Spray Formula is Incorrect and is Also Based on Evocation, Not Illusion

[Tuxedoman96]

So my friends and I were testing Color Spray in the tavern. We discovered that the formula is 10+spell lvl (starts as 1)+Int modifier+Evocation bonuses. When heighten is used it's based on the lvl of the character, NOT the highest casting ability from any class (i.e. a lvl 17 that has heighten will bring it up to a lvl spell DC value of 9 regardless of the highest spell lvl that character can cast). My friend's split was 9/7/4 Drd/Wiz/Rog, with a 13 for the Int modifier. The base DC was 24. When heightened, it went up to 32 (the 8 DC increase coming from the fact that it's considered a lvl 1 spell that is increased to a lvl 9 spell). Evocation, Insightful Evocation and Spell Focus items increased the DC. Illusion, Enchantment, and Conjuration DID NOT.


Hope this helps people with trying to improve their Color Spray DCs and/or helps the Devs fix the problem

[NemesisAlien]

Considering that its a radical makes sense, after all radicals is based on character levels not caster levels.

[Aelonwy]

The heighten effect is intended because this is a racial spell but its supposed to be illusion based DC, if its actually evocation that's a BUG.

[LightBear]

The heighten effect is intended because this is a racial spell but its supposed to be illusion based DC, if its actually evocation that's a BUG.

Could be racial enhancements + past live feats as well.

[Junk]

All experiments where done with a Deep Gnome SLA. So who knows reguly Gnome SLA might be different could be just a Deep Gnome bug. PK could be bugged also. It was 100 % Evocation. No last lives

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Thank you for doing this. DC's have a long history of being bugged or coded poorly.

[GramercyRiff]

Great info to have for sure. It's a great SLA and knowing how it actually works...thanks for testing.

[shores11]

Color Spray is an illusion spell in D&D. Why on earth would DDO change it's school?

[Tuxedoman96]

The heighten effect is intended because this is a racial spell but its supposed to be illusion based DC, if its actually evocation that's a BUG.

Color Spray is an illusion spell in D&D. Why on earth would DDO change it's school?

I'm pretty certain this is a bug, I just thought that seeing what actually affected the SLA would help to resolve the issue (it'll hopefully give the Devs a narrower field of code to look at)

[Tuxedoman96]

Considering that its a radical makes sense, after all radicals is based on character levels not caster levels.

It was determined that the formula was incorrect by a significant amount. My friend was lvl 20, had an int mod of 13 and had illusion items and feats. Even if we argued that the illusion items definitely didn't work, the DC should have been at least 33 (since it would be character lvl 20+int mod). Instead, The base DC was 24. We determined that int mod did indeed affect the DC, so after taking away 13, that actually left the spell as base 11. Unless the spell has a really funky formula, it should be the same as a regular lvl 1 spell.

I conjectured about the formula being 1/2 character lvl+int mod+?, but even that didn't work. The resultant DC would have been 23 (instead of the 24 we got). And if it was something like character lvl +1/2 int mod+?, the DC would have been (rounding down) at least 26. Also, we had tested and found that the DC was affected 1:1 for int mod, so it definitely wasn't the second formula.

We took off any spell focus items before doing the tests and turned off heighten to get a baseline to work with. We also took off the int item just to see what an effect it had (it was a +6 and it dropped it down by 3 DC) so that we could see where the discrepancy lied.

[AbyssalMage]

Color Spray is an illusion spell in D&D. Why on earth would DDO change it's school?

Evocation is probably default on the drop down menus for spells.

[Tuxedoman96]

Also, during the test, I was on a first life elven bard and I noticed a stark contrast between the blindness portion and the daze and silencing portions. My will saves were +20 versus the blindness and +30 versus the other two. I considered the possibility that it was going after different saves, but my fort is +16 and my reflex is +17, and I'm much more willing to believe that through items and enhancements I'm receiving a +10 bonus somewhere versus a +13 or +14 bonus. I was wearing an illusion resistance +5 item, but I was also wearing a resistance +5 item at the same time, which shows up on my saves list (and as far as I know they don't stack since they'd both be resistance bonuses; will have to test that out).



My character did have the enchantment resistance from the racial tree, and I'd have to do some tests to determine if that is partially the cause. However, even if the enchantment resistance and the elven racial feat are hypothetically affecting these portions of the spell somehow (I conjecture that it could be because silence and daze are usually typed as enchantment spells), the math doesn't add up, since the bonus I should have from them would be +8 (not sure where the other +2 is coming from). I'd have to do further testing to determine definitively what exactly is causing this, but it is certainly perplexing.

[NemesisAlien]

It was determined that the formula was incorrect by a significant amount. My friend was lvl 20, had an int mod of 13 and had illusion items and feats. Even if we argued that the illusion items definitely didn't work, the DC should have been at least 33 (since it would be character lvl 20+int mod). Instead, The base DC was 24. We determined that int mod did indeed affect the DC, so after taking away 13, that actually left the spell as base 11. Unless the spell has a really funky formula, it should be the same as a regular lvl 1 spell.

I conjectured about the formula being 1/2 character lvl+int mod+?, but even that didn't work. The resultant DC would have been 23 (instead of the 24 we got). And if it was something like character lvl +1/2 int mod+?, the DC would have been (rounding down) at least 26. Also, we had tested and found that the DC was affected 1:1 for int mod, so it definitely wasn't the second formula.

We took off any spell focus items before doing the tests and turned off heighten to get a baseline to work with. We also took off the int item just to see what an effect it had (it was a +6 and it dropped it down by 3 DC) so that we could see where the discrepancy lied.

How about Lev+int - epic mob nonsense? They got some ridiculous resist p/mrr and armor levels... ¯\_("/)_/¯

[Tilomere]

My best gues is that what you are seeing is that the blindness of color spray is borrowed coding from the necromancy blindness spell, the helpless daze that doesn't break on damage is borrowed from the soundburst evocation spell, and the silence is borrowed from the enchantment spell. As such, all sorts of oddities with regards to DCs, bonus saves against specific spell schools, champion immunity, and heighten are expected.

When you play a caster using multi-part spells use general all-school DC gear, and don't be surprised if oddities pop up. Except for soundburst, which the important stun part is evocation, and the damage part is your cleave that follows it.

[LurkingVeteran]

When I played around with color spray against mobs on a first-life test-toon, it seemed that the effects were progressive. E.g. the first effect landed easily, the second less easy and the third was tough to land without gear. I assumed they had to save twice to get blinded, and three times for helpless. Several spells used to work this way in DDO (now it might only be Circle of Death?).

This would make perfect sense from a balance perspective, you really need to invest in it to get helpless. They could also be targeting different saves or using different schools, but I don't recall seeing a blind without the earlier effect. I don't know if multi-roll saves are visible in the combat log in PvP, but against which effect exactly did you test your results?

[Junk]

When we tested it another guildie was getting tested on also and all three effects were getting the same Will save and it definitely was Evocation on all three effects. This makes what Tux was seeing even more confusing. When I use it I do notice that some type of mobs get stunned more other types get blinded more. I don't know why.

It would be nice if a Dev could look into it a little. It probably say more complicated than just switching it from evocation to illusion but it might not be.

[kelavas]

This should be corrected in patch 3 on 2/6/2019. If this is not fixed, please report this.

*I would like to play a dc based wizard.

[Junk]

Will test tonight.

[Junk]

I checked last night and illusion is now working on color spray. Thank you guys for the fast response. The description in the Deep Gnome racial tree is wrong still. It should be 10 plus caster level 1 (heighten takes it to highest caster level) not character level. Thanks again for the fast fix.