Update 39 Preview 2: Falconry Universal Enhancement Tree

[Skavenaps]

Would be possible to change the cores to reduce the CD of some of the attacks? This way, if someone wanna use this skill tree as "main" could be viable.

The point will be to have at least 2 "spamable" attacks, in the order of 6/8 seconds (1 single target with more dmg, 1 that cleaves).

The instakill could be in the order of 30 secs (like hurl through hell from warlock) and the 10% extra damage could be 1 min (as in raid will be powerfull) or make ir with a low CD (like 6 secs) that inflics vulnerability stacks BUT each 1 min, it also debuffs with the extra 10%.

Also, the need of refresc the WIS to tactics is a hassel. A toggle will be a QoF improvement. Make even a T5 to justify it.

thanks

[Dalsheel]

Current 'reasonable' Quivering Palm DC (20 Monk, Any Race)
10 Base
10 Monk Level
43 Wisdom Bonus
03 PL: Fighter
06 ED: Legendary Tactics
03 ED: Grandmaster of Flowers Innates
04 Feat: Scion of the Astral Plane
02 Feat: Tactician
= 81DC Base DC
= 93DC with Know the Angles

= 102DC with Deadly Instinct instead of Know the Angles
= 106DC Reaper Tactics

If you have 43 Wis mod on a current (u38) endgame monk, it pretty much means you're not doing meaningful damage. That's not reasonable at all for a melee toon.

[Haphazarduk]

If you have 43 Wis mod on a current (u38) endgame monk, it pretty much means you're not doing meaningful damage. That's not reasonable at all for a melee toon.

What's yours then?

Hap

[Tuxedoman96]

If you have 43 Wis mod on a current (u38) endgame monk, it pretty much means you're not doing meaningful damage. That's not reasonable at all for a melee toon.

But now you have a tree that offers you wis to atk+dmg, so there's that.

[Tuxedoman96]

Wisdom gives all CC you need to near double your damage to all but bosses, and for bosses you can have very high AC/incorporality/dodge/displacement to safely dps it.

Best monks atm are WIS > INT > DEX > CON based using kta and using Scion of the Ethereal Plane to scale their sneak attack. After this tree comes out they gonna be even stronger.

I concur with all of the above.

[Kodwraith]

Ung is right. For me, the obvious move on a Shintao monk is to pull the 8 AP out of Harper and pull down to 11 in Ninja (even this might not be needed given that you can get 10% incorp eaily) and leave 1 in Henshin.

This leaves 80 - (42 + 11 + 1) => 26 points for the Birds.

It's quite reasonable to have 80 WIS on a Monk assuming you grind Rloft gear. I think I have 84 on Kodraith with out goign through too much grinding.
What's more interesting is this closes the gap between GMoF and LD a bit more since you're only really down 15 odd MP and + crit vs GMoF since the DCs and WIS which GMof gives are more generally useful.

Mostly it means I made my CC +Int of Ins Int goggles in vain.

[Celender]

Bottom line! Mental attributes were never meant to be used as physical damage modifiers. Look at all the trouble this is causing. This game more and more is favoring only one approach to success: min/max multiclass toon.

It makes no sense to use INT/CHA/WIS to physical damage and tactical feats other than class specific abilities, this is INSANE! So why not allow STR/DEX/CON to spell DC and spell power, yeah sounds weird doesn't it?

But the dmg( no pun intended) is done, I don't think SSG will ever roll back those changes. We have to come up how to mitigate the unwanted outcome:



1 If your feat or to-hit/dmg already count WIS/INT modifier, how on Earth you gonna count it twice? Is this exacly what deadly instinct and know the angles does, isn't this stacking the same type of bonus?. One way out is to provide the bonus only if your feat use another atribute for DC rather than WIS/INT. This wouldn't allow monks to use it while allowing Clerisc/FVS/Druid/Ranger to benefit from it.

or

2 If you are to benefit with something that important it should be added to core: tier 4 to hit, tier 5 for dmg and capstone for half modifier to DC.

Please Devs don't mess things up, delay this tree release a little bit more. Think about it better.

[TMTrainer]

Bottom line! Mental attributes were never meant to be used as physical damage modifiers. Look at all the trouble this is causing. This game more and more is favoring only one approach to success: min/max multiclass toon.

It makes no sense to use INT/CHA/WIS to physical damage and tactical feats other than class specific abilities, this is INSANE! So why not allow STR/DEX/CON to spell DC and spell power, yeah sounds weird doesn't it?

But the dmg( no pun intended) is done, I don't think SSG will ever roll back those changes. We have to come up how to mitigate the unwanted outcome:



1 If your feat or to-hit/dmg already count WIS/INT modifier, how on Earth you gonna count it twice? Is this exacly what deadly instinct and know the angles does, isn't this stacking the same type of bonus?. One way out is to provide the bonus only if your feat use another atribute for DC rather than WIS/INT. This wouldn't allow monks to use it while allowing Clerisc/FVS/Druid/Ranger to benefit from it.

or

2 If you are to benefit with something that important it should be added to core: tier 4 to hit, tier 5 for dmg and capstone for half modifier to DC.

Please Devs don't mess things up, delay this tree release a little bit more. Think about it better.

I kinda agree, kinda not.

I like the idea of having multiple ways to approach your DCs and to Hit/Damage scores... it makes for interesting choices and approach when making a character. An undergeared or tomeless character will make this enhancement tree (well, the Wisdom to-hit and damage) pretty hard to use. See Favored Soul; it gets CHA/WIS to-hit and damage but has a pretty solid requirement you need to meet before you get it (you need 50% or more of your levels to be FvS)

For example, an undergeared or tomeless monk character will have a pretty hard time hitting the MAD requirements in general. GTWF requires 17+ Dex and IPS requires 19+ Dex... pretty hard to hit 19+ Dex when, optimally, you also want a maxed out WIS and high CON, with enough INT for the skill points you want.

On the flip side, I don't like the fact that we are introducing these enhancements through universal trees. Don't get me wrong, I play almost exclusively pure characters for no good reason, but the fact that you don't need to multiclass these relatively powerful trees is... boring? Especially because of 2 versions of KTA we have now. These trees are just purchasable global buffs to your account, making every class you can purchase them better with no decision making on your end.

VKF is neat, because it opened up a lot of character options it terms of itemization and choices... it made a weak weapon (ignoring classes that have synergy) pretty strong (and flavorful! Vistani Knife Fighting was a really nice touch to include in the tree). It didn't make a character strictly better than normal unless you built around the tree, as opposed to...

Falconry COULD have been another VKF but you guys decided to add Killer and Deadly instinct to the tree, which is basically saying "this is our way of buffing WIS martial characters so they can use weapons and cast spells without feeling bad about it". It's a waste of space on the tree... the other spots of which could have been more interesting enhancements.

[Celender]

I kinda agree, kinda not...

Falconry COULD have been another VKF but you guys decided to add Killer and Deadly instinct to the tree, which is basically saying "this is our way of buffing WIS martial characters so they can use weapons and cast spells without feeling bad about it". It's a waste of space on the tree... the other spots of which could have been more interesting enhancements.

I agree, falconry should do to ranged and melee(not unarmed) what VKF did to daggers.

Too late, they released the update. I foresee a nerf in the next month or so like they did to VKF restricting the melee/ranged power bonus to thrower/dagger.


That's the problem with DDO, allowing classes that were not conceived to have a high melee/ranged DPS damage to achieve that. For the sake of "variety of builds" what is really happening is turning all builds the same, a high output DPS machine, your class is almost secondary. If you wanna a high melee DPS run a fighter kensai/chalice pally, but if you still wanna try to make a eldritch knight or warpriest you better know you gonna be mediocre at best and you should't complain. A large part of the DDO's player community wanna do it all, be a tank, DPSer, caster, healer, buffer,sing, dance, open locks, do traps, solo reaper r10, solo raids and more.

[Tuxedoman96]

I agree, falconry should do to ranged and melee(not unarmed) what VKF did to daggers.

Too late, they released the update. I foresee a nerf in the next month or so like they did to VKF restricting the melee/ranged power bonus to thrower/dagger.


That's the problem with DDO, allowing classes that were not conceived to have a high melee/ranged DPS damage to achieve that. For the sake of "variety of builds" what is really happening is turning all builds the same, a high output DPS machine, your class is almost secondary. If you wanna a high melee DPS run a fighter kensai/chalice pally, but if you still wanna try to make a eldritch knight or warpriest you better know you gonna be mediocre at best and you should't complain. A large part of the DDO's player community wanna do it all, be a tank, DPSer, caster, healer, buffer,sing, dance, open locks, do traps, solo reaper r10, solo raids and more.

The idea of having different "classes" and "roles" but basically having the same abilities and really only being able to have one style of gameplay was what turned me off from Guild Wars 2.

Yeah, I never understood the idea of trying to do everything in a party. Serve multiple roles? Sure. But it just seems like so much work and exploitable dependability to be able to basically play an orchestral work by yourself.

[Willan]

I didn't have a chance to play on Lamannia so sorry if this is a bit late.

While duel wielding the attacks break the combat animation chain and force the character to stand still as if rooted in place as it does the sunder animation. This leads to a large amount of missed attacks if the mobs are moving. Is there anyway to fix the animation?

The bird follow up takes several seconds to go off after the attack animation assuming you don't whiff it. Enough time that I have been consistently killing everything but orange named or champs in reaper. The 2 seconds or so it takes for the CC to take affect has led to many deaths over the past day. Is it possible to have the bird animation fire at the same time you hit the attack so we don't get plowed by the mobs while waiting for them to be CCed?

The DCs of the attack are not reflecting what the text says they should be. All of my Attacks should be 10 + 17 (Character Level) + 13 (Wisdom) + 3 (Enhancement Assassinate) + 3 (Knifepalm, 3 Item Assassinate) + 1 (Insightful Assassinate Trinket) for a total of 47 but Strike the Eyes and Diving Attack both show 48 on tooltip and Death from Above and Coordinated Strike both show 40.

Overall, the tree is great as it allows for non-monk melees to have some CCs for the TR grind but with the delay between activating the attack and the monster getting CCed the tree is, in application, worthless for everyone not using the Wisdom to hit/damage and Wisdom based divine might.

[Captain_Wizbang]

I agree, falconry should do to ranged and melee(not unarmed) what VKF did to daggers.

Too late, they released the update. I foresee a nerf in the next month or so like they did to VKF restricting the melee/ranged power bonus to thrower/dagger.


That's the problem with DDO, allowing classes that were not conceived to have a high melee/ranged DPS damage to achieve that. For the sake of "variety of builds" what is really happening is turning all builds the same, a high output DPS machine, your class is almost secondary. If you wanna a high melee DPS run a fighter kensai/chalice pally, but if you still wanna try to make a eldritch knight or warpriest you better know you gonna be mediocre at best and you should't complain. A large part of the DDO's player community wanna do it all, be a tank, DPSer, caster, healer, buffer,sing, dance, open locks, do traps, solo reaper r10, solo raids and more.

Power Creep as defined by DDO. This tree just brought that up one whole notch on the OP counter. That being said, it will get nerfed.