Update 39 Preview 2: Falconry Universal Enhancement Tree

[Rog]

Wisdom to hit and damage sounds nice for a handwrap monk, but at what price? These seem to be up the tree a few levels, so are you telling me that this is really better than taking Dex to damage from Ninja Spy and 30% helpless? My DCs are already at 100 stunning Fist, 106 Dire Charge, and 71 QP. with KTA, I add about 7-8 to each of those and have no problem jading reapers on R10. I feel like to get the wis dmage/hit is going to cost me more than it is worth. With a Dex build, you also benefit from higher reflex saves (= better chance to live).

Am I reading this right? Or am I way off base?

Thanks!
Nico

Edit: I need to read all of the tree enhancements...at tier 4, you gain helpless damage and what looks to be better than KTA in Deadly instinct. only issue is that this relies on charges. Ok, I can get on board the choo choo train and give it a whirl. I'd have to drop Ninja Spy to do this, so I lose SA damage...hmmm...

i thinking tier 4 will be the way to go for monks

[unbongwah]

My first inclination would be 41 Shintao (tier-5s + capstone) / 11 Ninja (Shadow Veil + Melee Power Boost) / 1 Henshin (+3 MP +3 PRR) with the rest going into Falconry for some combo of tier-4 abilities (depending on AP cost).

[J-mann]

Wow. Melee clerics just got a monkey wrench thrown at them. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. With this tree giving WIS to hit/dmg and actual good stuff in tier 1 to splash for, STR based melee clerics may be a thing of the past. Will have to reevaluate and do some more thinking/experimenting but seems like splashing this tree and reworking character build and gearset will be worth it. Depending on the AP costs of all this of course.



I was hoping for an Owlbear option LOL

Its too bad that warpriest is still a crummy tree. Can see interesting cleric kensai builds with this tree now.

[Ballrus]

Move Killer Instinct I to tier 3, Killer Instinct II to tier 4 and Deadly Instinct to tier 5.
War Priests and War Souls have enough AP to spent here.

No more monk power pls.

Edit. And allow Thrill of the Hunt heal pale masters.

Ty.

[J-mann]

Move Killer Instinct I to tier 3, Killer Instinct II to tier 4 and Deadly Instinct to tier 5.
War Priests and War Souls have enough AP to spent here.

No more monk power pls.

Edit. And allow Thrill of the Hunt heal pale masters.

Ty.

How about no. If monks are op nerf monks, not everyone else thanks.

[redoubt]

Can this enhancement become as tier 1?
Assassins should already invest much APs on different universal tree like vistani and harper.
I think it would be hard to fit this enhancement.

Most of this tree favors wisdom based toons, but, assassins are not.

Agreed. With the way the assassinate attack works, you need rogue levels and dex/int.

I'm sure someone will come up with a way to squeeze this in on an assassin, but I think the majority will avoid this tree (assassins that is.)

[Marupal]

-Nice flavor tree with some interesting choices for birds.
Killer instinct - nice!

[Hjarki]

My first inclination would be 41 Shintao (tier-5s + capstone) / 11 Ninja (Shadow Veil + Melee Power Boost) / 1 Henshin (+3 MP +3 PRR) with the rest going into Falconry for some combo of tier-4 abilities (depending on AP cost).

I think you may be looking at it from the wrong angle.

If you're just considering dps, Falconry doesn't really have much to offer because Monks already have plenty of options in their enhancement trees. I doubt that the 'max damage Monk build' will really change much due to Falconry (if at all).

The benefit would be if you don't want to play a 'max damage Monk build' but a 'caster-style Monk build'. Being able to usefully deploy all the various Wisdom-based control effects could make for an interesting approach. However, it's an approach I suspect will be more in the Henshin Mystic wheelhouse than the Shintao one. The Kukan-do line has two luck-based effects, one long cooldown and one mildly interesting ability. Within Henshin Mystic you get AE damage and all the various void/dark benefits.

The same sort of argument holds for Ranger. If you just want to do damage, Falconry doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It only really pays off if you want to be a Wisdom-based Arcane Archer for the control effects (and, truthfully, I'm not sure how useful this is outside of heroic levels). If the capstone chance to reset is ~25% or so and Death from Above functions with IPS, I can see making this build. But if you're just talking about the lower four tiers, I'm not sure it's any better than Deepwood Sniper unless you really want to absolutely be sure you land Paralyzing Arrows.

Think about how Vistani Knife Fighter turned out. You don't see a lot of VKF Monks or Fighters because those classes already have plenty of good options. Instead, it's primarily used for classes like Bards and FvS who don't have enough good options.

I see Wolf Druids getting a massive payoff from the tree. While there are plenty of nice benefits in SH and NP, they're mainly utility/defense rather than making for a better wolf build. Think of the long discussions about how to get the impressive burst of Howl of Winter to be worthwhile - Falconry answers that question.

Likewise, 'battle Clerics' are probably a lot more viable since you're not forced to choose between offensive casting and effective melee.

[redoubt]

Seems Assassinate was used to boost the DC due to tree getting tactics bonus based on your Wis modifier. Rogue Assassin would only add up to 5 DC after remaining stealthed for 5 seconds, while pure rogue gets +2 more, but no I can see pure assassins going wis build over dex or int. There are much better build options in my opinion.

That is from Measure the Foe which is a T5 enhancement. The bird dive insta kill is also a T5. Can't have both unless SSG radically changes the enhancement rules.

I still see places this tree will be used, but neither my assassin nor my caster druid can really use it. I was very excited for a couple minutes until I realized the tree requires some sort of melee or range attack. Doesn't look like magic attacks will trigger the bird.

[Niminae]

Its too bad that warpriest is still a crummy tree.

Very true. It's a shame that they are spending dev cycles to improve Warpriest/Soul, but not changing enough to make it worthwhile.

Falconry: When your deity inspired combat options are for the birds, use a bird!

[Cantor]

My first inclination would be 41 Shintao (tier-5s + capstone) / 11 Ninja (Shadow Veil + Melee Power Boost) / 1 Henshin (+3 MP +3 PRR) with the rest going into Falconry for some combo of tier-4 abilities (depending on AP cost).

seems the obvious split.

Costs you SA dice gutting ninja but not much else.

At first glance, I think it will be very close to no change in DPS but gives you all the good DCs. Be nice if you could fit the core 5, but the 11 must have in ninja locks you out of that.

If no mercy in this tree is 2 per rank, it would lock you into only 2 ranks in deadly instinct and no cleave. So the overall playable split might only have partial ranks in no mercy. Which of course doesn't affect boss dps, and the improved DCs should help balance that on trash. Monks already have enough special attacks and adding birds in the rotation to keep up deadly instinct could be a DPS loss, that will depend on how it fits the rotation and how well the birds do.

As OP as this sounds for monks at introduction, I think wrap DPS will end up pretty much where it is now. That is probably why the skill placements are higher than in harper. It of course has no effect on shuri, and staves could use some help. I could see nice applications for a pure monk staff user, but I'd hate leveling 1-20 without rog staff speed... maybe I'll play a wrap monk to 30 then ER to a staff build.

[Clerize]

i thinking tier 4 will be the way to go for monks

Thinking I'd completely ignore this tree on a monk. Hitting DCs at endgame with KTA isn't really an issue (other than quivering palm). 8 ap into harper for kta, 23 into this tree for the wisdom version, which leaves 15 AP coming from someplace. So what are you going to give up 3% dodge cap, and attacks which stack vulnerability from henshin? Sneak attack dice from Ninja spy? Not to mention a lower reflex save and the need to slot an assassinate item along with the stunning, tripping (unbalancing strike) items.

[Niminae]

How about no. If monks are op nerf monks, not everyone else thanks.

Yeah! If handwrap monks are OP nerf handwrap monks, not quarterstaff monks. Oh, oops.


Also, can the bird be named as the Druid Wolf and Artificer Homunculus can?

[J-mann]

Very true. It's a shame that they are spending dev cycles to improve Warpriest/Soul, but not changing enough to make it worthwhile.

Falconry: When your deity inspired combat options are for the birds, use a bird!

Whats even more shocking is how the devs are stonewalling about how bad it is. Im not sure what the issue is with it but this tree is really a better warpriest tree than warpriest...

[Vish]

Repost for number 1500


The bird man cometh
17/3 cleric fighter
Ln aasimar
War domain
Swf with khopesh, flame sphere
Divine crusader

41 bird man wis to hit damage
15 stalwart d +25 prr/mrr +20%hp
9 aasimar regen loh, heal amp
15 radiant burst us destroy undead

Str 11 3
Dex 11 3
Con 14 6
Int 10 2
Wis 20 +7 16
Cha 14 6
+6 tomes

1 cleric empower healing
2 cleric domain war
3 fighter power attack
Feat swf
4-6 cleric exotic prof, khopesh
Feat cleave
7 fighter great cleave
8 fighter stalwart d
9 cleric quicken
10-12 cleric ic slash
13-15 cleric Iswf
16-18 cleric gswf
19-20 cleric implosion

21 oc
24 bogw
26 PSwf
27 blinding speed
28 mass frog
29 dire charge
30 Celestia
Completionist

Notes
Better than a 20 warpriest
Rip warpriest

Steel,
Build me a better warpriest

[Silverleafeon]

The Falconer universal tree is expected to be released with Update 39.

+1

Overall, very pleased with the addition of this new independent tree.

I was hoping for a least three independent trees and here we are!!!
(Still willing to see two more in the future- possibly one that focuses on spellcasting (or at least metamagics)).

Obviously, the math needs to be worked over with a fine tooth comb and live playtesting/reactions.
No negative comments from me on this tree.

Glad to see the Wis to damage independent tree appearing.
This will make pure Druid/Cleric/Favored Souls viable Hybrid-weapon+spellcasting builds possible.

Actually considering moving some points into this tree on my Main Druid spellcaster and seeing how things work out.

Also, very happy that with three independent trees, one should be able to build quality toons with using class trees.
This brings much more variety of builds into the games.
It also paves the way for possible Challenge Classes to appear.





{Challenge Classes could be easy to code due to not having their own class trees.
Likely modeled after D&D 3.5 DMG page 56 which details NPC classes.
Variations could apply such as allowing Expert to have all skills as class skills.
Warrior could include a few bonus fighter feats, but likely not.
Adept would be the hardest to program, but I sent you a spell list of DDO spells that could be used.

Probably should not count for Completionist.
Likely would require own set of hearts purchasable by turning in tokens of the twelve.
Possibly name thus Hearts of Challenge.
Challenge Classes might not count towards primary class when heroic reincarnating via Hearts of Wood.

There might be some sort of limit to use the Challenge Hearts such as one must have 10-18 levels of a particular challenge class in order to use the Challenge Hearts.

Past Lives would be significantly less powerful than other past lives, yet slightly nice.
The goal is to provide challenge for those seeking more while avoiding power creep at level 30ish.
Past Lives would apply 3x as that is typically expected for any Past Lives.

Examples of Past Lives bonuses:
[balance to be adjusted as needed]

NPC Classes
Adept = +5 spell points
Aristocrat = +1 intimidate
Commoner = +1 perform & tumble
Expert = +1 repair, haggle, and jump
Warrior = +5 hit points



http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/classes.htm

[Celender]

It seems a nice idea for a tree but not universal, this should be a druid tree or maybe for ranger. Instead they ctrl-c ctrl-v sacred/stalwart defender tree to be used for druids. This tree would work great with wolves, making them actually useful.

I foresee bait and switch tatics: monk builds will be more common than ever, warpriest and AA cleric will bloom, then Devs will nerf it, players will cry and SSG will sell plenty of +1/+5 hearts.

What's the rationale behind putting Killer Instinct I a tier higher than Strategic Combat I; and Deadly Instinct two tiers higher than Know the Angles? Seems like it makes going the WIS-based Falconry route needlessly expensive compared to INT-based Harper builds. Is it being done deliberately to hamstring monks and monkchers?

Yes it is. Universal tree doesn't mean all builds can use ( vistani only works with daggers), it means you dont have a class restriction. Monks are already the most powerful class in the game, stop whining.

so am I the first to ask for more than 80 AP because there isn't enough points to spread around into all these trees?

Are u kidding, right? Devs would have to again put mobs on roids and start the cycle of tree passes, revamp named items and new crafting system so it is relevant again.

[Tuxedoman96]

+1

Overall, very pleased with the addition of this new independent tree.

I was hoping for a least three independent trees and here we are!!!
(Still willing to see two more in the future- possibly one that focuses on spellcasting (or at least metamagics)).

Obviously, the math needs to be worked over with a fine tooth comb and live playtesting/reactions.
No negative comments from me on this tree.

Glad to see the Wis to damage independent tree appearing.
This will make pure Druid/Cleric/Favored Souls viable Hybrid-weapon+spellcasting builds possible.

Actually considering moving some points into this tree on my Main Druid spellcaster and seeing how things work out.

Also, very happy that with three independent trees, one should be able to build quality toons with using class trees.
This brings much more variety of builds into the games.
It also paves the way for possible Challenge Classes to appear.





{Challenge Classes could be easy to code due to not having their own class trees.
Likely modeled after D&D 3.5 DMG page 56 which details NPC classes.
Variations could apply such as allowing Expert to have all skills as class skills.
Warrior could include a few bonus fighter feats, but likely not.
Adept would be the hardest to program, but I sent you a spell list of DDO spells that could be used.

Probably should not count for Completionist.
Likely would require own set of hearts purchasable by turning in tokens of the twelve.
Possibly name thus Hearts of Challenge.
Challenge Classes might not count towards primary class when heroic reincarnating via Hearts of Wood.

There might be some sort of limit to use the Challenge Hearts such as one must have 10-18 levels of a particular challenge class in order to use the Challenge Hearts.

Past Lives would be significantly less powerful than other past lives, yet slightly nice.
The goal is to provide challenge for those seeking more while avoiding power creep at level 30ish.
Past Lives would apply 3x as that is typically expected for any Past Lives.

Examples of Past Lives bonuses:
[balance to be adjusted as needed]

NPC Classes
Adept = +5 spell points
Aristocrat = +1 intimidate
Commoner = +1 perform & tumble
Expert = +1 repair, haggle, and jump
Warrior = +5 hit points



http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/classes.htm

Personally, I'm not in favor of another grind, even one that can be seen as harmless. We already have enough grind and it's leading to monster power increase and hp inflation. It also makes it harder for newer players to catch up, or requires them to fork out cash they might not have in order to do so. Plus the scaling would probably be done with the newest content in mind, and then it becomes a neverending cycle.

[Qhualor]

Are u kidding, right? Devs would have to again put mobs on roids and start the cycle of tree passes, revamp named items and new crafting system so it is relevant again.

of course I was kidding, but I wanted to be the first to ask because I know it's coming before much longer with all these trees to invest into now. I mean we got racial only AP that only costs time to get because players complained there wasn't enough AP to invest into the race trees even though many thought the investment didn't match up to the power of the class and Harper trees.

I suggest breaking down the AP to be racial, class and miscellaneous.

[SoVeryBelgian]

A universal tree for companion damage?

Man, I hope this spread doesn't become overused, but I def feel that it is Unique and meshes well with Ranger, Monkcher, Rogues and Light-Armor specced Melees or Druids.

I guess Psion was off the table even if it works in the setting? I used Harper a lot, so I do like the bonus trees, but I do feel like Psion could have easily been a melee or spell augment mix tree.


Either way, good on ye for truly surprisin' me on this one. Lookin' forward to my Bird-Barian Bludgeoning Build.