Skill Questions, Elf's Nothing Is Hidden ability

[Igognito]

Hi all,

I have some skill related questions.
I recently had a brief read of the following article:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Skill_usefulness

1) There are a few things that are not clear to me. It appears that some skills use the total modifier and some use only the ranks. Is there a guide for that? Example: Haggle? does your charisma play any roll? Having 0 ranks but high charisma is the same with the reverse?

2) Also some skills are not rolled and only your modifier is taken in account. Example: Spot/Search.

3) It is noted that Jump caps in +40. Is there a guide of where skills cap, or when the score is high enough?

4) [most important question for me]: How is Nothing is Hidden work. The text says:
Nothing Is Hidden: Your senses are so acute that you no longer need to spend time searching for the obvious. You will automatically perform a Search check to locate traps and secret doors when you are in range to Spot them, although this Search check occurs at a -12/-8/-4 penalty.
The skill usefulness says: Spot (Wis): Spot allows to detect traps and secret doors as well as sneaking enemies. However as the location of traps are usually fixed, Spot becomes much less useful if someone in your group can just remember/spoil those locations, and hidden enemies are rarely an issue as they reveal themselves on attack. Yet Spot can be helpful for new players or inexperienced groups, or if you run a Quest with random trap placement. With Update 19 Elves and Drows can spend points on the Enhancement Nothing Is Hidden that allows them to perform Search checks automatically using their Spot skill to find traps and hidden doors. Taking this Enhancement renders Search useless if you have Spot skill at least 4 points above Search.

I'm playing a multi class character and to be honest it would be great if I could only place ranks in either spot or search and not both. So I would like to know which of the two to boost and if the enchantment actually is good or not. Well when u are in a party it is going to be good; people seem impatient to wait for u to search...

5) What do you think about using the following skills for a Rogue/Wizard: I have very low cha (8), so I didn't choose any charisma based skills. But if the score doesn't matter and only the ranks play a role, I might choose one among diplomacy, bluff, haggle :-P for the passive uses mainly. I'm considering Use Magic Device but again low cha doesn't make it very useful. For healing I use Potions :-P

Balance (any +here that is the magical number u need? By the way I rarely been successfully tripped so I feel I'm ok for now)
Concentration (I placed some ranks but I'm thinking of removing them, I do have quicken and in a few levels I should be able to spam use it by reducing its cost)
Disable Device (I try to keep it as high as possible)
Hide (so and so, I now have invisibility)
Jump (target for a +10 without enchantments and a +30 from jump spell , o yeah baby I can fly! For now my jump is +20 and I can jump to the ships just outside the harbor)
Listen (I think of dropping it, does it have any practical use?)
Move Silently (so and so, I feel that the monsters auto hear me)
Open Lock (I try to keep it as high as possible)
Search (I try to keep it as high as possible)
Spellcraft (MAXED with only class ranks)
Spot (I try to keep it as high as possible)
Swim (4 ranks from the start... I think I even added a few more later, it seems unnecessary though)
Tumble (4 ranks from the start... I think I even added a few more later, it seems unnecessary though)

Something like this would make more sense I think:
Balance
Hide
Move Silently
Swim
Tumble
Listen
+1 (UMD? Bluff? Diplomacy?)
4 ranks from 1st level rogue

Disable Device
Open Locks
Search or Spot (depending how the enchantment works)

6 ranks from 1st, 3rd level rogue
+ more or less maxed with cross-class ranks

Spellcraft MAXED

Some of the points that are spared will be distributed among: move silently, listen, concentration (but I think makes no sense, as this is an all full or not at all skill).


Finally, some feat questions
6) Combat Casting and Mobile Spellcasting, does it worth it?
7) Single Weapon Fighting vs Two-weapon Fighting? which u thing is better?

Thank you for your patience and help.

ps: All these questions are because I'm a bit frustrated with my character. I made the mistake and took to early the 2nd rogue level :-(. So I have decided to use my +0 wooden heart in order to tune a bit the character. I'm 9th now and I started having difficulty in finding traps. I believe it is marginal right now because swapping my equipment I can find them but then I do not have a high enough spot to detect the existence... If I could invest only to 1 of the 2 with a good item problem is solved (at least for now).
ps2: will the heart automatically reset my enchantment trees?
ps3: by the way from what I understood it will take a long time until I get to reach the 32 point character. Thus I do not see any other reason to keep my heart of wood. (Any counter arguments on that?)

[Discpsycho]

*Cracks knuckles and prepares for arthritis*

1. All skills incorporate a stat modifier into the roll. For example, Haggle can achieve a similar value with many ranks as with high Cha, though obviously it'll have a much higher value if you invest ranks and stack Cha. The exception is skills that cannot be used untrained, like Tumble

2. This is correct, and is actually most easily explained in the context of D&D 5e. D&D 3.5, on which this game is based, uses active rolls for all interactions. 5e introduces a mechanic called "Passive Perception", which uses your modifiers and adds them to a baseline score. In practice, this ends up being very similar to the 3.5e mechanic of "taking 10 on a roll"

3. Very few skills reach a hard cap; in most cases, you decide that a skill is high enough to suit your purposes. For example, there's no hard cap on Search, but at a certain point you're able to find every trap in the game. While there's no downside to investing more into those skills, you'll find you have to sacrifice gear slots (or convenience, by switching between items) to keep them maximized, which leaves less room for other attributes and effectively lowers them.

Jump is the only one that comes to mind with a hard cap. The cap is +40, but bear in mind that you get a -40 to Jump while using the stealth skill, so some folks decide to shoot for +80 so they can stealthily jump. There are limited applications for this, so +40 is generally the bar for which people shoot.

4. Nothing is Hidden is meant for:
a) folks who don't have the skill points to invest in Spot
b) folks who have much better Search than they would need at-level
c) folks who like to go as fast as humanly possible but still want the trap bonus

As the skill says, you constantly and automatically perform Search checks at a -12/8/4 penalty, which will show traps, doors, etc. It sounds like, as a Rogue/Wizard, you're a perfect candidate for this feature. Your Wis will be poor, so you would need to sink a lot of points into Spot to keep it useful. On the other hand, Int is your main attribute for both classes, so you'll want to prioritize it more than most Rogues, which will boost Search a little more than usual

5. It sounds like you're taking at least 2 levels of rogue - are you going for a trapping caster spec?

If you're taking at least 6 levels in Wizard, you should consider putting 11 points into the Pale Master tree and picking up Death Aura. This will provide a steady stream of healing, and you can use Negative Energy Burst for a quick heal (which will also damage nearby enemies). If you use the skeleton pet, this will also be healed by your negative spells.

Skill importance by tier (for a Wiz/Rogue, in my opinion):
- Search, Disable Device, Spellcraft
- Balance, Spot, Open Lock
- Move Silently, Concentration
- Pretty much anything else. Build for flavor!

Rationale:
- Locks tend to be slightly less important than traps, and you may choose to replace Spot with Nothing is Hidden
- You can cast Invisibility, so you don't need Hide
- Move Silently can be useful if you're trying to run by people invisibly, but is otherwise unhelpful
- Balance is always helpful, but at some point people will be tripping you fairly successfully (and ideally, they won't be in melee range of you very often? I don't really know your build)
- Swim is useful in about 3 quests total. You do you
- Tumble helps reduce falling damage, but you have Feather Fall. Unless you're actively tumbling (used by Thief-Acrobat), you won't get a lot of benefit out of this
- Concentration is similar to Balance: it's always useful, but at some point people will be hitting you hard enough that they'll interrupt you regardless. At that point, Quicken is your friend
- You can cast Jump, so you don't really need the skill, but you can go for it if you want to.
- Drop Listen. It's semi-redundant with Spot (helps you find hidden enemies) and is Wis-based

6. Neither is worth it. See above for Concentration explanation. Take some Metamagic feats instead (esp. Quicken)

7. I'm confused about your build; are you a caster, a melee, or a hybrid? Are you taking levels other than Rogue and Wizard? What's your eventual level breakdown?

Let's say you're a Wiz/Rogue, without any other classes (for simplicity's sake, as I don't want to do a breakdown by every class you might pick). Your weapon prowess comes from all three Rogue trees or Eldritch Knight.

EK only really works as a splash, and then only if you're part Fighter as well. You could take a few points, but I wouldn't recommend basing your build off it. Traditionally, it uses a Two-Handed Fighting or a Sword-and-Board style. Mechanic would require a lot of ranged feats, so neither Single Weapon nor TWF. This probably isn't what you're planning. Thief-Acrobat uses a quarterstaff, so THF (requires Str).

So I'd guess you're going into the Assassin tree for melee combat? Bear in mind that Assassin is not newbie-friendly for both numbers and playstyle reasons. Most assassins are pure Rogue and tend to TWF


If you have other questions, feel free to reply. But you might want to check out the Pale Trapper, which is a fairly similar build


ps1: Hit up the auction house for some Spot and Search items. What server are you on?

ps2: Yes

ps3: If this is your first character, it'll take a while. I wouldn't bother waiting for it, especially if you're not having fun, because that's the most important

[AggThri]

4. Nothing is Hidden is meant for:
a) folks who don't have the skill points to invest in Spot
b) folks who have much better Search than they would need at-level
c) folks who like to go as fast as humanly possible but still want the trap bonus

As the skill says, you constantly and automatically perform Search checks at a -12/8/4 penalty, which will show traps, doors, etc. It sounds like, as a Rogue/Wizard, you're a perfect candidate for this feature. Your Wis will be poor, so you would need to sink a lot of points into Spot to keep it useful. On the other hand, Int is your main attribute for both classes, so you'll want to prioritize it more than most Rogues, which will boost Search a little more than usual

Are you sure you don't need spot? The wiki says "A Search check is performed immediately after successful Spot check and, when the Search is successful too, no "your acute senses has detected..." message is issued, but the whereabouts of the object are immediately revealed. With insufficient Spot (and high enough Search) nothing is found, with sufficient Spot (but low Search) standard Spot warning is issued."

That is why I didn't bother testing around, because it only seemed to spare me a click. AND with a disadvantage, too. If it helps with skill points it is much more interesting.

[Grace_ana]

It sounds like you are trying to do too many things on a first life toon, which is a common trap for new players. Trapping, casting, and melee are tough to fit all in even for an experienced player, at least to the extent all are useful. I would pick 1-2 of those things.

If you want trapping and casting, wiz 18/rogue 2 is a good split. Take your rogue level first for the most skill points, and take another around when you start to feel the pain of no evasion (I find this is around level 10-12 for new players.) Also take the feat insightful reflexes so you don't have to worry about dexterity.

If you want trapping and melee, try a thief-acrobat rogue. They're a little more forgiving than an assassin. Max dex for damage, put some points into int for traps, and constitution for hit points. Take the THF line and grab any good quarterstaffs you can find, then hit things a lot. Assassin is awesome, it was my first toon and is still my main, but it's tricky for first time players. If you want that, though, you will want TWF and daggers. Same stats as thief acrobat.

If you want casting and melee, I would recommend bard. Warchanter and swashbuckler are both very good. Warchanter is (IMO) best with a two handed weapon, so you would take the THF line. Swashbuckler will want SWF line, and you will use a light weapon or rapier in your main hand and a buckler in the other. Your stats will depend on a lot of other choices, so I'd read more on them before you build.

You can find newbie-friendly build advice on all these in their class forums, as well as a lot of good advice. If you do go the trapping route, make sure you use the best trap gear for your level you can find.

Have fun!

[Arianrhod]

As far as the spot vs search question, I'd say if points are tight enough that you can't get both, always go for search (assuming you want to disable traps, that is). You can always "spot" a trap by blundering into it, but if you don't have enough search, you'll never be able to find the box to disarm it.

Also, in general, to find rogue advice (like what targets you need to get your skills to), the class forums (rogue) are a good place to look. There are some good rogue guides there.

[Igognito]

Great, thank you for the explanations and suggestions.

Let me answer a question that was given: My character main focus is
Early Levels) Sneak, Melee, Buffs, Mechanisms <--- That worked fine for me until lvl 5-6
Mid low Levels) Force spells, some damage spells, mechanism <--- Getting troubles in lvl 9
High mid Levels) Crowed control spells, Force and other damaging spells, mechanisms
High Levels) Full spellcaster and mechanisms as much as possibly

Question) The mobile spellcaster I think I can use it. Especially if it applies also to wands. Does it? I do kite a lot with a fireball wand ;-)

Yes, sure this is not an optimal character. I have seen how people play and I also have a first life Paladin that at 5th level is much stronger than my wizard and easily enters in Reaper 1 at lvl 3 dungeons (only true weakness is traps). But it is all about enjoying the game, and I do like more playing with my wizard :-). Eventually, at a life I will get it perfectly right :-P.

And yes everybody is telling me to become a pale master. I'm pretty sure it works fine and would make my life easier. I just do not like it in terms of RP... My character is a trickster and force caster. Transmutations, Illusions and Force spells are the focus.

@PMDiscpsycho, Yes, I'm a Rogue/Wizard. I did an early mistake that I regret (took my 2nd level of Rogue at 3rd level) I though there would be an Arcane trickster class that would solve the problem. But there isn't any, unless I find a heart of wood +1 I'm considering taking a 3rd level of rogue soon in order to get a huge boost on disable device and search. In practice it will cost me some mana and an 8th,9th spell slot.

We do agree on the skill selection and I think the Nothing is Hidden enchantment will work for me too...

Servers: Wizard at Cannith; Paladin at G server (forgot the name :-P)

If anyone has an unbound heart of wood +1 and wants to sell it I would be happy to buy it ;-)

[Enoach]

...
4. Nothing is Hidden is meant for:
a) folks who don't have the skill points to invest in Spot
b) folks who have much better Search than they would need at-level
c) folks who like to go as fast as humanly possible but still want the trap bonus

As the skill says, you constantly and automatically perform Search checks at a -12/8/4 penalty, which will show traps, doors, etc. It sounds like, as a Rogue/Wizard, you're a perfect candidate for this feature. Your Wis will be poor, so you would need to sink a lot of points into Spot to keep it useful. On the other hand, Int is your main attribute for both classes, so you'll want to prioritize it more than most Rogues, which will boost Search a little more than usual

..

Are you sure you don't need spot? The wiki says "A Search check is performed immediately after successful Spot check and, when the Search is successful too, no "your acute senses has detected..." message is issued, but the whereabouts of the object are immediately revealed. With insufficient Spot (and high enough Search) nothing is found, with sufficient Spot (but low Search) standard Spot warning is issued."

That is why I didn't bother testing around, because it only seemed to spare me a click. AND with a disadvantage, too. If it helps with skill points it is much more interesting.

As far as the spot vs search question, I'd say if points are tight enough that you can't get both, always go for search (assuming you want to disable traps, that is). You can always "spot" a trap by blundering into it, but if you don't have enough search, you'll never be able to find the box to disarm it.

Also, in general, to find rogue advice (like what targets you need to get your skills to), the class forums (rogue) are a good place to look. There are some good rogue guides there.

I think some clarification is in order here.

"Nothing is Hidden" works with your SPOT skill and does not care what your Search skill is at. Keeping in mind that if you want to focus this way your spot skill will need to be higher then the Search needed by a minimum of 4 points.

Spot is a passive ability and can also help locate sneaking creatures, Search is a active ability and requires you "stop and search".

Now, keep in mind this makes it possible that you will get notification something hidden is near by and it won't necessarily be found. This occurs when your spot is high enough that you can sense it, but not high enough for "Nothing is Hidden" to "find it".

For what you should invest in would depend on your build and which of those skills you can boost to keep up to level. Most early lives players of rogues generally find Search an easier investment and simply opt to use the more active requirement. Keep in mind 80%+ of your rogue skills comes from Buffs and Gear.

[Igognito]

I think some clarification is in order here.

"Nothing is Hidden" works with your SPOT skill and does not care what your Search skill is at. Keeping in mind that if you want to focus this way your spot skill will need to be higher then the Search needed by a minimum of 4 points.

Spot is a passive ability and can also help locate sneaking creatures, Search is a active ability and requires you "stop and search".

Now, keep in mind this makes it possible that you will get notification something hidden is near by and it won't necessarily be found. This occurs when your spot is high enough that you can sense it, but not high enough for "Nothing is Hidden" to "find it".

For what you should invest in would depend on your build and which of those skills you can boost to keep up to level. Most early lives players of rogues generally find Search an easier investment and simply opt to use the more active requirement. Keep in mind 80%+ of your rogue skills comes from Buffs and Gear.

So back again on doubt!

What "Nothing is Hidden" uses...

Spot or Search?

Honestly, in both I have a good score right now. But it is taxing to keep both high, so I would need to know which to choose.
Is there any other way to search fast? Like an item or something?
Because that is a nice ability by it self!

Cheers

ps: My base int score is 18 and will keep growing, my base wis is 12 and will stay there...
Also I have a +6 on int from buffs and enhancements while I think it is a +4 for wis...
To both I can give an enchantment bonus (given by a wand currently of +4).
I'm an Elf +2 to each

that is +11 search modifier +7 spot modifier
I have 6 class ranks at each and I think 4 cc ranks for another +8
so +19 vs +15 then comes items... I think I have chosen a +7 spot. I used to have a +5 search. And I do think that this +1 I miss is enough to not find some mechanisms at my level :-(

If optimize for 1 of the 2 (lets say search) I can reach to have 6cc ranks that is an extra +1 plus a +7 item (which I intent to craft...) that will give me a total of +27 if I have a -4 but it works as spot it is still better than having both! In this case my spot would be a bit lower +15 or so but only applicable for monsters hiding which is not a big deal to be honest as I usually have a summoned winter wolf to sniff them out :-P. Now if I need to optimize for spot, it gets slightly harder and might not worth the effort.

[Niminae]

5) What do you think about using the following skills for a Rogue/Wizard: I have very low cha (8), so I didn't choose any charisma based skills. But if the score doesn't matter and only the ranks play a role, I might choose one among diplomacy, bluff, haggle :-P for the passive uses mainly. I'm considering Use Magic Device but again low cha doesn't make it very useful.

I dunno about you, but I use swap items for trapping. I don't want to be in combat with a +X Disable Device item on instead of something that helps me win the fight. And I do the same thing for a few social skills. There are a couple places where a good Diplomacy, for example, is nice to have. So make yourself a trinket with first slot Diplomacy, second slot Charisma, and bonus slot Insightful diplomacy and you're good to go. Or a ring with any augment slot with Diplo/Insight Diplo and CHA augment.

Listen (I think of dropping it, does it have any practical use?)

Sweet Cinnamon Cloud

ps3: by the way from what I understood it will take a long time until I get to reach the 32 point character. Thus I do not see any other reason to keep my heart of wood. (Any counter arguments on that?)

You'll be a 32 point character as soon as you use that Lesser Heart of Wood that your character started with. Or ER.
You lose it as a 'safety net' in case you screw up your build, but you can always reset enhancements with platinum and feats at Fred with 1 free per life via Loikana, and then using Astral Shards or dragonshards. So you'd have to screw it up right proper to really need that Lesser Heart for anything other than boosting you to a 32 point build.

When you first TR/IR/RR you'll be a 34 point build, regardless of whether you used the Lesser Heart or not.

4. Nothing is Hidden is meant for:
a) folks who don't have the skill points to invest in Spot
b) folks who have much better Search than they would need at-level
c) folks who like to go as fast as humanly possible but still want the trap bonus

NiH has another use: I use autoattack on every ranged character I play. I hate, with a burning passion that knows no limits, the fact that Searching turns it off (also placing a trap, but that's a separate subject). I park attack on a hotbar next to Search so I can turn it back on immediately. But if you don't have to Search you avoid that huge inconvenience.

Also, slot Wisdom in some augment somewhere. Possibly in an item with a bunch of Spot on it already. Or vice-versa, such as Intricate Field Optics or Shadowsight. It's not a huge bonus but it helps, and Wisdom is not a class stat for either Wizards or Rogues. With NiH you'll want a Spot item always on and not as a swap item, until you learn the location of the traps and can swap it in when you get close.

[AggThri]

I think some clarification is in order here.

"Nothing is Hidden" works with your SPOT skill and does not care what your Search skill is at. Keeping in mind that if you want to focus this way your spot skill will need to be higher then the Search needed by a minimum of 4 points.

Spot is a passive ability and can also help locate sneaking creatures, Search is a active ability and requires you "stop and search".

Now, keep in mind this makes it possible that you will get notification something hidden is near by and it won't necessarily be found. This occurs when your spot is high enough that you can sense it, but not high enough for "Nothing is Hidden" to "find it".

For what you should invest in would depend on your build and which of those skills you can boost to keep up to level. Most early lives players of rogues generally find Search an easier investment and simply opt to use the more active requirement. Keep in mind 80%+ of your rogue skills comes from Buffs and Gear.

I did two quick test.
One with (end scores) Spot 16 and Search 3. Nothing found on my test sites. The Spot warning is there, but the door doesn't "shine" up.
One with Spot 4 and Search 12.5. Everything lights up immidiatly.

So, either it depends only on search and not the least on spot.
Or on both and my test sites needed a to low spot role for being good test sites.
But I am pretty sure that it is not only spot.

Or I misunderstood something, or ... ^^

[Enoach]

I did two quick test.
One with (end scores) Spot 16 and Search 3. Nothing found on my test sites. The Spot warning is there, but the door doesn't "shine" up.
One with Spot 4 and Search 12.5. Everything lights up immidiatly.

So, either it depends only on search and not the least on spot.
Or on both and my test sites needed a to low spot role for being good test sites.
But I am pretty sure that it is not only spot.

Or I misunderstood something, or ... ^^

Question at what rank was "Nothing Hidden"?

First Rank your SPOT score for the search part would be a 4 (16 minus 12), Second Rank your "search" part would be 8 and Third Rank your Search part would be 12.

My experience has shown that it is based on spot to "Light up" where things are and not on search. So I do find it curious you see something different then I did.

[Grace_ana]

@PMDiscpsycho, Yes, I'm a Rogue/Wizard. I did an early mistake that I regret (took my 2nd level of Rogue at 3rd level) I though there would be an Arcane trickster class that would solve the problem. But there isn't any, unless I find a heart of wood +1 I'm considering taking a 3rd level of rogue soon in order to get a huge boost on disable device and search. In practice it will cost me some mana and an 8th,9th spell slot.

This will not make your character better. It will make it worse. I'm not sure why you think it will give you a boost to your trap skills. The only things that will boost your trap skills are actual skill points, which you get plenty of as an int-based class anyway, and your int score, which won't change with another level of rogue. Just taking rogue levels won't help you find traps.

If you could give us a breakdown of your ability scores, your trap gear, and whether or not you have your trap skills maxed on points, it will be easier to give you advice. Also, you simply may not be able to find traps at level on the hardest difficulties on a first life 28 point toon - even if you were a pure rogue. It's very ability-point, skill point, and gear dependent.

[AggThri]

Question at what rank was "Nothing Hidden"?

First Rank your SPOT score for the search part would be a 4 (16 minus 12), Second Rank your "search" part would be 8 and Third Rank your Search part would be 12.

My experience has shown that it is based on spot to "Light up" where things are and not on search. So I do find it curious you see something different then I did.

Lvl 4 Elf with three points in keen senses and three points in nothing hidden. So minus 4.
I only looked at two sites, so I will try to conduct more experiments.

[Enoach]

Lvl 4 Elf with three points in keen senses and three points in nothing hidden. So minus 4.
I only looked at two sites, so I will try to conduct more experiments.

I went to the wiki and forgot about this but it seems secret doors and traps/boxes operate different according to the notes (http://ddowiki.com/page/Nothing_Is_Hidden)

So that could account for the differences we are seeing as I'm basing my knowledge on traps and boxes for traps. I was ignoring secret doors.

[AggThri]

I didn't test it in quests yet. Only in waterworks.
I testet again with the spot build. Two of the doors triggert, the rest only got the spot warning, but I could find them with using the bad search skill.
Very confusing. Will test with search now....

Traps will have to wait til another day, sorry.

EDIT: The Wizard found everything without needing to search, even the trap which the druid couldn't find because of to low int (rune). And she would have 4-4=0 spot.

[DYWYPI]

You'll likely find the Search Skill, more useful than 'Nothing Is Hidden' if you are trying to uncover Trap Control Panels. Since the Search skill itself doesn't have a penalty unlike 'Nothing Is Hidden'. Generally most Traps have an equal Spot and Search DC. Occasionally the Trap's Spot DC might be lower by maybe 1 or 2 DC (typically it's the "damage component" DC, rather than the box itself that can be lower) though that's extremely rare, and you probably could count those traps on your fingers.

You'll likely find the following useful: http://ddowiki.com/page/DDO_informat...pot_and_Search

A lot of traps have "fixed" places within quests and quite a few quests have maps on the DDO Wiki that give indication of a trap's position. A good experienced Rogue will have plenty of time to find a Trap by using Spot and Search alone and should not have any need really for 'Nothing Is Hidden'. Unless they are after the land-speed record; i.e. not actually wanting to disable the traps themselves.

[...] I did two quick test.
One with (end scores) Spot 16 and Search 3. Nothing found on my test sites. The Spot warning is there, but the door doesn't "shine" up. ...

To the best of my knowledge, all standard 'Secret Doors' can be detected by having a Spot skill of 1!

True Seeing SHOULD always show a 'Secret Door Detection Icon' for standard 'Secret doors' that can be found via Spot/Search.

Albeit with 'True Seeing' you'll notice the Secret Door won't be 'auto revealed' if the [Search DC] is higher than DC:30. Therefore we're loosely talking: Level 15 Elite, where the majority of Secret Doors have a suspected Search ~ DC:30 and Level 16 Elite, Search ~ DC:32.

For most Heroic Elite 'Secret Doors', the suspected Search DC begins at Level 1 ~ DC:2, and increases in increments of +2 per Level. Of course there are some Secret Door [Search DC] outliers' but that's the general formula. Therefore by Level 19 (Elite), you'd Suspect a Secret Door [Search] DC of around 38 or low forties.

So the reason you saw a "Spot Warning" icon for the "Secret Door" was likely because you had a Spot skill, value of 1 or higher rather than anything else. The five Secret doors to the 'Rare Encounters' in the "Water Works "Explorer area" (not the quests); have two difference Search DCs. I cannot remember from the top of my head but likely its either Search ~ DC:2 or DC:4 will find them all.

Since you have a Wizard, the scrolls for: http://ddowiki.com/page/Find_Traps will be slightly more useful, than they are to let's say a none Spellcaster pure Rogue, when you level-up your Caster.

Note: if you are worried about the time it'd take to find a Trap Control panel, within a group and they don't wait... then the odds are the group are either; unhelpful or not bothered if you DON'T even attempt to disarm the trap (assuming your Search DC is adequate).

[JOTMON]

Nothing Is Hidden uses both spot and search.

If you don't spot the trap/door you don't auto search for it.

if your spot is high enough but your search isn't then you do not auto find the trap/door even though you sense it.


You need both to be high enough.


Many secret doors have a very low spot which may give the impression that it is not necessary.
go to Amber Temple for secret doors that require DC's to find.

[Enoach]

...
Since you have a Wizard, the scrolls for: http://ddowiki.com/page/Find_Traps will be slightly more useful, than they are to let's say a none Spellcaster pure Rogue, when you level-up your Caster.

...

The Artificer class's "Artificer Knowledge scrolls" is the only ability that expands the caster level of scrolls.
The "Wand and Scroll Mastery" only effects DC not caster level.

Scrolls use the lowest Caster Level needed to cast, in this case the base is Caster Level 3, which provides a +1 to Search. Artificer's with only a single level start at +2. At 13 Artificer Levels this grants the +4 since the caster level will be at 8 with a +5 to caster level bonus.

Wizards advantage with this is they usually have the skill points to put into UMD where they can take advantage of the +1 bonus.

[AggThri]

Nothing Is Hidden uses both spot and search.

If you don't spot the trap/door you don't auto search for it.

if your spot is high enough but your search isn't then you do not auto find the trap/door even though you sense it.


You need both to be high enough.


Many secret doors have a very low spot which may give the impression that it is not necessary.
go to Amber Temple for secret doors that require DC's to find.

That is how I unterstood it, which is why I saw it as a waste of points.
But if somebody with more experience says otherwise, experiments are in order ^^
Even if it aren't good ones...
Maybe I can build a char with -x spot....

[GeoffWatson]

That is how I unterstood it, which is why I saw it as a waste of points.
But if somebody with more experience says otherwise, experiments are in order ^^
Even if it aren't good ones...
Maybe I can build a char with -x spot....

Get a Smoldering Cudgel from Ghost of a Chance.
No ML, -5 to Spot.