Punch Punch Burst - Does an Enlightened Spirit aura Monk work?

[sirgog]

First a disclaimer - I was known for builds at the 20 cap. That's a long time ago and I do not know much about theorycrafting any more. So assume you are talking to an inexperienced player, not a former build designer.



The Warlock nerf has come and gone and that class is still pretty strong.

It got me thinking. Spiritual Retribution offers a lot to a fast attacking melee (aka a monk). Spirit Blast, Eldritch Burst and Eldritch Aura provide considerable point blank AoE damage, useful to a monk.

The ridiculous tankiness provided by Shining Through, Brilliance and the prereqs for Spiritual Retribution also can only help a monk.


Is there a strong synergy here?

I'm looking to get a Monk past life and am open to either doing it as a 1-20 or a 15-30. I'd probably mostly be running Reaper 1-4 (1 in unknown groups, 2 in reasonable PUGs, and 3 or 4 with people I know) dropping to easier settings near 30, and it doesn't need to perform beyond that.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

8 Warlock/12 Monk

I'd go something like

1M
2W
3M
4-10W
11-20M

Displace from ES and Dark Disc or DDoor as 3rd level Lock Spell (you only get 1 @ Lock level 7 and 8 but the 8th Lock level gets you a bump in Pact Dice and a 2nd level 2 spell)

If you are short on Feats (for some reason) or don't care about 3rd level spells then your split could be anything with low hanging fruit like...

2Fighter/6Lock/12Monk

if you are not locked into Abundant Step and don't mind spending a couple feats for Master/GMaster Forms then you could up your DPS or survival by doing 7Lock/9Monk and 4Fighter for more feats and higher options in Stalwart/Kensai Trees.

[Phoenicis]

First a disclaimer - I was known for builds at the 20 cap. That's a long time ago and I do not know much about theorycrafting any more. So assume you are talking to an inexperienced player, not a former build designer.



The Warlock nerf has come and gone and that class is still pretty strong.

It got me thinking. Spiritual Retribution offers a lot to a fast attacking melee (aka a monk). Spirit Blast, Eldritch Burst and Eldritch Aura provide considerable point blank AoE damage, useful to a monk.

The ridiculous tankiness provided by Shining Through, Brilliance and the prereqs for Spiritual Retribution also can only help a monk.


Is there a strong synergy here?

I'm looking to get a Monk past life and am open to either doing it as a 1-20 or a 15-30. I'd probably mostly be running Reaper 1-4 (1 in unknown groups, 2 in reasonable PUGs, and 3 or 4 with people I know) dropping to easier settings near 30, and it doesn't need to perform beyond that.

You can't get shining thru and get a monk past life on the character, brilliance however should be achievable.

I may give this concept a try myself, an extra 3d4 light per strike on a fast melee could be fun.

[sirgog]

You can't get shining thru and get a monk past life on the character, brilliance however should be achievable.

I may give this concept a try myself, an extra 3d4 light per strike on a fast melee could be fun.

I believe the requirement is Wlk 5, character total level 12, and 30+ AP spent in the ES tree, which is manageable on multiclasses (albeit at the cost of banning tier 5 enhancements in that class).

[Phoenicis]

I believe the requirement is Wlk 5, character total level 12, and 30+ AP spent in the ES tree, which is manageable on multiclasses (albeit at the cost of banning tier 5 enhancements in that class).

For some reason I was thinking it required lvl 12 in the class.

You are probably right though, which makes me look foolish ;P

[thalliwell]

I ran this over a year ago, so not sure how it has changed (I would guess with monk buffs it's now better)

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...lock-3-Paladin

Found it to be really fun and quite good.

[Arctigis]

Might have been workable pre-nerf. However, Eldritch Burst and Spirit Blast were both
hit pretty hard and you won't have the pact and Eldritch Blast (which was also
hit) damage dice on a WK multiclass. Spiritual Retribution is now a big AP
investment for +3D4. IMO, better going pure - human (wis/dex) can get WA by
level 6.

[Drecas]

Currently running a build like this. Pre-U36 it was great, after U36 I find it to be underperforming. I'm actually thinking of buying a heart and going with some other build.

[unbongwah]

ES blasts/bursts never worked all that great on melee builds due to the lagtime between using them and resuming melee. ES was all about the temp HPs and other survivability perks (like extra MRR/PRR), IMO.

Melee monklocks were better pre-U33, IMO, because monk enhancements were a lot weaker so you gave up less DPS on a deep MC vs pure monk build (e.g. Reiign). But since the monk pass, pure unarmed monk is a lot more powerful than they were before, between tier-5 Shintao improvements plus tons of Melee Power in Henshin & Shintao cores. [Something like 41 Shintao / 23 Henshin / 11 Ninja / 3 human gets you +80 MP, Shadow Veil, and extra heal amp.]

So with the nerf to MCed `locks in general and ES builds in particular, now you're giving up your best monk DPS bonuses to keep the best ES survivability bonuses. Is it worth it? Perhaps for certain players who struggle to stay alive in Reaper, the temp HPs alone might justify T5 ES. But in that case, I'd be looking at combining with a different melee class which is less dependent on its tier-5s, such as Swashbuckler or (maybe) Kensei.

[sirgog]

Thanks for the feedback all.

I'll take the collective wisdom to be "This is not a strong build, but not terrible, and can definitely handle 1-20". Might do it anyway, I'll see.

[DrawingGuy]

I do think people are underselling the synergy slightly - 11 Henshin gives you Quick Draw, which should help your recovery time from ES bursts, and throughout heroics, it's much easier to raise your Light spellpower and crit giving the light damage procs more potential than what you'd get from base unarmed. However the devs did well with the 18/20 cores of Shintao - it took Unarmed monks from being completely front loaded with pretty much any cross class being better unarmed DPS (as there are many options that out-did the base die loss) to pure Monk being competitive if not the best unarmed DPS (have not crunched the numbers on enough theory crafting to confirm that yet... and other class passes may change that). So the way I would break it down:

Pros of Warlock levels:
+ Temp HP which does not scale in reapers increasing survivability
+ Greater AOE potential with ES bursts and WWA
+ Retribution should have stronger lower-level damage potential than a pure Monk would get normally

Cons of Warlock levels:
- The split is difficult AP wise as wanting MP from Henshin, Shadow Veil from Ninja Spy, and all you can get from Shintao, pulling from Monk trees will hurt your Unarmed damage and/or a survival boost option.
- The feat split is also difficult. WWA is a massive cleave for Handwraps, but is extremely feat intesive, and after TWF line and Imp Crit, you use up every single heroic feat unless Human/PDK. You'll want Maximize and Empower for ES bursts, which means you'll either be hurting your Unarmed DPS or your ES bursts. Without the big power bump of the metas, the already nerfed ES bursts may become pointless.
- 20+ Retribution will definitely be outstripped by the higher melee power and base damage a pure monk would get, so while you might still have stronger AOE potential, you'd definitely be behind on single target DPS.


TTL;DR - it definitely will work. You'll have a lot of tough decisions to make for feats and AP spends, and it will not become some super powered meta build, but it won't be weak either. Though if you want to push it into a win button for epics, the're always Tree builds. Warlock Aura procs AON as does Cleric, and there's this: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...aper-Clonklock

You'll have to give up your 4th level spells, but you can do 8 Monk / 6 Warlock / 6 Cleric rather than the 6M/6W/8C that he has. It's actually a build that you can earn all of your Cleric/Warlock/Monk/Racial lives on that you want to do Epic levels with as well. Though if you don't have plans to do Epic levels, I wouldn't split in cleric unless you're trying to earn Cleric PLs.