petition to bring back single pull tactic

[Captain_Wizbang]

Plain and simple since this was taken away from us. Melee focused players got the shaft.

You developers have catered to the casters. You gave melee's class updates that were awesome, then totally undue those small advantages and put us back in the passenger mode.

There are many players that have completionists that can overcome some of these deficiencies, but a lot of people dont.

PLEASE give us something.

[Rys]

Plain and simple since this was taken away from us. Melee focused players got the shaft.

You developers have catered to the casters. You gave melee's class updates that were awesome, then totally undue those small advantages and put us back in the passenger mode.

There are many players that have completionists that can overcome some of these deficiencies, but a lot of people dont.

PLEASE give us something.

Didn't that only happen because forumities were crying about ranged being able to actually range?

[Mr_Helmet]

Just play a warlock.

[Phoenicis]

Didn't that only happen because forumities were crying about ranged being able to actually range?

If you mean ranged being able to kill entire spawns one mob at a time with no reaction from the rest of the spawns despite being in full view, then yes.

That made no sense. the current aggro also makes no sense, when every mob knows exactly where to look for a stealthed character when some mindless mob with tremor sense spots you.

There needs to be a happy medium, where mindless mobs don't immediately spread aggro to everything around, communicating your exact position.

Mindless mobs should only trigger alertness, not pass along exact positions (except under special, specific circumstances) when their tremor sense goes off.

Ranged (and melee assassination) should trigger alertness when a mob drops with no immediately apparent cause of death. Escalating as more mobs die for no obvious reason until the source is finally spotted (LoS management would go a long way to preventing this for ranged, managing mob view should help for melee)

[JOTMON]

Plain and simple since this was taken away from us. Melee focused players got the shaft.

You developers have catered to the casters. You gave melee's class updates that were awesome, then totally undue those small advantages and put us back in the passenger mode.

There are many players that have completionists that can overcome some of these deficiencies, but a lot of people dont.

PLEASE give us something.

What are you talking about..
They already gave you single pull mechanics.

Bluff:
A successful Bluff against an idle monster alerts it to your presence and draws aggro. The monster turns hostile on its own, though, without alerting its allies.
If you combine this fact with the fact that you can Bluff from behind total cover, Bluff can be a good ambush skill to pick enemies off one by one rather than taking them all on at once and being overwhelmed. However, bear in mind that enemies who attack primarily using ranged weapons or spells will attack in place, rather than being pulled away.

edit:
Bluff is the new awesome melee tactic to replace intimidate.. melee don't need no focussed intimidate...
wait what.. melee don't get bluff as a class skill.... splashing rogue....

[bjones0064]

Change assassination back too!

[Captain_Wizbang]

Bluff:

NO. Why should I change any of my characters just to get bluff? You've been around long enough, I read tons of your posts, I don't recall you being a fanboi for game systems. In fact I remember you were quite animate about when the changed the game mechanic, along with other things back then. No disrespect meant bro.

I should be able to play this game as it's fair for me. Hell everyone else on here cries like a baby when they cant get what they want.

As a kensai for eg, I should be able to use a bow, pull one or two, switch to whatever wep that toon is spec'ed for and control my encounters.

Ill be **** if I put bluff on a hate tank, or intim etc.....

[Powerhungry]

their broken agro mechanic forced the devs to alter one of their own dungeons to deal with it. (To Curse The Sky) - they had to add doors all over to compensate for the broken agro. Totally breaks the stealth play style. I've seen the video of that quest being stealthed. There ws one kill- Malicia. It was an impressive feat- no longer possible due to the agro changes and subsequent dungeon change.

[JOTMON]

NO. Why should I change any of my characters just to get bluff? You've been around long enough, I read tons of your posts, I don't recall you being a fanboi for game systems. In fact I remember you were quite animate about when the changed the game mechanic, along with other things back then. No disrespect meant bro.

I should be able to play this game as it's fair for me. Hell everyone else on here cries like a baby when they cant get what they want.

As a kensai for eg, I should be able to use a bow, pull one or two, switch to whatever wep that toon is spec'ed for and control my encounters.

Ill be **** if I put bluff on a hate tank, or intim etc.....

yeah, its was more of a sarcasm post...
bluff fail...

melee should be more about focussed intimidate.. not using rogue tactics for bluffing...

having mobs aggro across the map is just a screwed up mechanic that I hope they will someday recognize and fix...


2012...
Single Target Intimidate...

I would like to see this.
two icons (same timer)
1. Intimidate (AOE)
2. Focussed Intimidate (Single Target longer range) .. the good old Hockey night in Canada drop the gloves, you and me lets go...
(would be nice if it did a diplo effect on anything else around you except for the targetted intimidate)

[cru121]

I don't know if this is relevant to the discussion. But when the monster groups are slightly dispersed, I have managed to pull single mobs or smaller groups by walking nearby while invisible. Some mobs hear me and start exploring... Might not work if mobs are very tightly packed, but I have used this tactics for example when late-joining an in-progress run of Good Intentions or Multitude of Menace, where the entrance area had mobs that the party skipped.

[JOTMON]

when 1 of the mobs has true seeing..

[cru121]

when 1 of the mobs has true seeing..

LOL you're probably right... buuut I have actually managed to pull mobs this way even without invis.
It seems that (at least) some mobs have better ears than eyes.

[psykopeta]

for me when u have ts/tremor sense ppl i prefer body pulling (i.e. w/o invis lol)

[Sam-u-r-eye]

The new system is MUCH BETTER.
We just need changes to make rogues happier.

[Phoenicis]

The new system is MUCH BETTER.
We just need changes to make rogues happier.

If mob spawns are close enough, one alerted mob can cause a red alert. I see yellow and orange all the time, though I will admit red is a bit more uncommon.

While 'realistic' (I can see groups of mobs calling for help from their buddies down the hall) I don't necessarily agree with 'better'.

What POSSIBLE changes to rogue would make it possible for them to stealth quests with that situation?

[Saekee]

their broken agro mechanic forced the devs to alter one of their own dungeons to deal with it. (To Curse The Sky) - they had to add doors all over to compensate for the broken agro. Totally breaks the stealth play style. I've seen the video of that quest being stealthed. There ws one kill- Malicia. It was an impressive feat- no longer possible due to the agro changes and subsequent dungeon change.

props to forumite Quezuzu for that old run

[PsychoBlonde]

As a kensai for eg, I should be able to use a bow, pull one or two, switch to whatever wep that toon is spec'ed for and control my encounters.

You still can, you just have to shoot the ground instead of the mobs, and break line of sight a couple of times.

I'd like to see more focus on actual *encounter design* instead of just slapping a bunch of mobs in a hall and calling it a day. Some quests have it, some don't.

[Captain_Wizbang]

You still can, you just have to shoot the ground instead of the mobs,.

You and I had this discussion on Mournlands chat room one day. As much as I'd like to say this still works, it doesn't the noise was part of the change.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Well if someone other than me started this topic it would have an answer from a dev by now.

YUP tinfoil hat is on.

Im giving SSG U36 to see the cleric pass and Ravenloft. But I have a feeling SSG has seen the last of my money and Ive spent a ton since Jan 07.

[Gargoyle69]

NO. Why should I change any of my characters just to get bluff? You've been around long enough, I read tons of your posts, I don't recall you being a fanboi for game systems. In fact I remember you were quite animate about when the changed the game mechanic, along with other things back then. No disrespect meant bro.

I should be able to play this game as it's fair for me. Hell everyone else on here cries like a baby when they cant get what they want.

As a kensai for eg, I should be able to use a bow, pull one or two, switch to whatever wep that toon is spec'ed for and control my encounters.

Ill be **** if I put bluff on a hate tank, or intim etc.....

I play in a static group that have recently TR'd and built for reaper. Since reaper really needs a lot of CC, I've opted for a mechanic who's built for bluff. And I'm finding it works great and is a lot of fun, really changes the game for us. For our group, people are loving having dedicated roles, we have two dedicated tanks, a dedicated healer, two dedicated CC/DPS, and a dedicated trapper / puller (me).

Given the amazing power of being able to split up most large groups and single pull the champions away and then take the remaining non-champs as a group, I'm ok with it being a dedicated role and having to build and gear for it. To me it's no different than building & gearing for a tank role, and I wouldn't expect one build to do both. In fact, there are games where the ability to single-pull is a class-defining & role-defining feature.

You sound as though you see it quite differently. Do you feel that all (or many?) builds should be able to single pull ?