Overwhelming Critical feat and Perfect Two Handed Fighting

[Zaharia]

Planning build for half-orc two handed weapon barbarian that will be played 98% solo.

Is it worth giving up feat "Epic Fortitude" or "Epic Damage Reduction" to obtain "Overwhelming Critical"?

Also does "Perfect Two Handed Fighting" give character anything more if they already have all of the other "Two Handed" feats?

Asking because have not made it out of Heroic levels yet so no experience with Destiny feats, just trying to learn to do a better job of planning character career in advance.

Looking at Barbarian 17 / Rogue 2 / Fighter 1 as follows;

Lvl 01 = Rogue, Toughness
Lvl 02 = Fighter, Weapon Focus: Slashing
Lvl 03 = Barbarian, Two Handed Fighting
Lvl 04 = Rogue, obtain evasion
Lvl 05 = Barbarian
Lvl 06 = Barbarian, Augment Summoning (needed to obtain Improved Augment Summoning, playing solo and using hirelings)
Lvl 07 - 08 = Barbarian
Lvl 09 = Barbarian, Improved Two Handed Fighting
Lvl 10 - 11 = Barbarian
Lvl 12 = Barbarian, Greater Two Handed Fighting
Lvl 13 - 14 = Barbarian
Lvl 15 = Barbarian, Improved Critical: Slashing
Lvl 16 - 17 = Barbarian
Lvl 18 = Barbarian, Power Attack
Lvl 19 - 20 = Barbarian
Lvl 21 = Epic Toughness
Lvl 24 = Improved Augment Summoning
Lvl 26 = Perfect Two Handed Fighting
Lvl 27 = Epic Fortitude
Lvl 28 = First Blood
Lvl 29 = Forced Escape
Lvl 30 = Epic Damage Reduction
Lvl 30 = Scion of Elysium (solo playing, beefing up hirelings)

User assigned lvl-up skill points at lvl 20 are as follows;

Listen = 20
Jump = 20
UMD = 20
Intim = 16
Balance = 15
Tumble = 14
Disable = 6
Open lk = 6
Search = 4
Spot = 4
Heal = 3

Will shop for gear to improve; spot, search, disable, unlock, seek, and accuracy.

Main weapon will be two-handed Axe and two-handed sword.

Thank you for reading this post.

[Discpsycho]

As a barbarian, I can't imagine you'd have much trouble with Fort saves, so I wouldn't consider Epic Fortitude a necessity.

For Epic Damage Reduction vs. Overwhelming Crit, there's a short answer and a long answer. The short answer is to go with Overwhelming crit - +1 multiplier on rolls of 19-20 is 10% more damage in the form of crits (some mobs are crit immune, but there's also some bonus from seeker, so I tend to call it a wash). An alternative short answer is to go with your preference of increased defense vs. increased offense. The longer answer is that it depends on your PRR, for which you'd have to know your gear at X level.

Perfect Two-Handed Fighting is a great choice if you're wielding a weapon that uses glancing blows, and will stack with the other THF feats. It also stacks with the Frenzied Berserker enhancements, giving you solid glancing blow damage (that I'm too lazy to calculate right now).

If I may make a suggestion, drop the fighter level for another Barbarian level. The 5th cores are decent for barbarians (especially Greater Vicious) and I'd recommend those over a free Weapon Focus or Toughness feat.

Otherwise, your build looks solid for soloing. The Augment Summoning line is unorthodox, but you do you

[unbongwah]

Planning build for half-orc two handed weapon barbarian that will be played 98% solo.

Why HO instead of human? The extra feat and more skill pts will be more useful than HO racial bonuses. If it's just a flavor thing, then OK, but otherwise it's a suboptimal choice.

Is it worth giving up feat "Epic Fortitude" or "Epic Damage Reduction" to obtain "Overwhelming Critical"?

Also does "Perfect Two Handed Fighting" give character anything more if they already have all of the other "Two Handed" feats?

Yes and yes.

Barbarian 17 / Rogue 2 / Fighter 1

If you really want trap skills, the rogue splash is fine, but stick with barb 18 for Death Frenzy + Subsiding Fury + an extra pt of healing from Blood Strength. So either barb 18 / rog 1 / ftr 1 for extra feat or rog 2 for Evasion.

Lvl 01 = Rogue, Toughness
Lvl 02 = Fighter, Weapon Focus: Slashing
Lvl 21 = Epic Toughness

These feats are unnecessary. In particular, if you're only splashing ftr so you can take WF:Slash, you're giving up more DPS from dropping lvl 18 barb cores than you gain from +2 Melee Power; Death Frenzy is +10 MP on its own and that's without factoring in the extra crit dmg. Likewise, dropping barb 18 means giving up +100 HPs from Ravager core, which is more than what you gain from Toughness+eToughness (+82 HPs @ lvl 30).

Lvl 09 = Barbarian, Improved Two Handed Fighting
Lvl 12 = Barbarian, Greater Two Handed Fighting
Lvl 15 = Barbarian, Improved Critical: Slashing

Unless you plan to use keen weapons thru lvl 15, I prefer to take Improved Crit ASAP (lvl 9).

Lvl 18 = Barbarian, Power Attack

Power Attack should come much sooner, IMO.

Counterproposal:

Barb Trapper Soloer
18/1/1 Barbarian/Fighter/Rogue
Chaotic Good Human


Level Order

1. Rogue           6. Barbarian      11. Barbarian      16. Barbarian
2. Barbarian       7. Barbarian      12. Barbarian      17. Barbarian
3. Barbarian       8. Barbarian      13. Barbarian      18. Barbarian
4. Barbarian       9. Barbarian      14. Barbarian      19. Barbarian
5. Fighter        10. Barbarian      15. Barbarian      20. Barbarian


Stats
               32pt     34pt     36pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     ----     ----     --------
Strength        18       18       18       +2       4: STR
Dexterity        8        8        8       +2       8: STR
Constitution    14       15       16       +2      12: STR
Intelligence    16       16       16       +2      16: STR
Wisdom           8        8        8       +2      20: STR
Charisma         8        8        8       +2      24: STR
                                                   28: STR

Skills
          R  B  B  B  F  B  B  B  B  B  B  B  B  B  B  B  B  B  B  B
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Disable   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Open Lo   4  1  1  1     1  1½ 1½ 1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Search    4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
UMD       4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Spot      4                       ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  10
Balance   4                                                            4
Jump      4                                                            4
Hide      4                                                            4
Move Si   4                                                            4
Swim      4                                                            4
Tumble    4                                                            4
Haggle    4                                                            4
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         48  8  8  8  6  8  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9


Feats

 1        : Power Attack
 1 Human  : Cleave
 3        : Augment Summoning
 5 Fighter: Great Cleave
 6        : Two Handed Fighting
 9        : Improved Critical: Slashing
12        : Improved Two Handed Fighting
15        : Greater Two Handed Fighting
18        : Stunning Blow
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Improved Augment Summoning
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 Epic   : Epic Damage Reduction OR Watchful Eye
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting OR Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Dire Charge OR Deific Warding
30 Epic   : Blinding Speed OR Watchful Eye
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea OR Elysium


Enhancements (80 AP)

Ravager (37 AP)

Furious Rage, Pain Touch, Demoralizing Success, Pain Touch II, Subsiding Fury
Do You Like Pain? III, Barbarian Power Attack III, Hardy Rage III
I Like Pain III, Cruel Cut III, Melee Power Boost III
Festering Wound III, Strength
Dismember III
Blood Strength, Critical Rage II

Frenzied Berserker (31 AP)

Die Hard, Frenzied Toughness, Frenzy, Frenzied Toughness II, Death Frenzy
Extra Rage III, Power Rage II
Angry Arms III, Blood Tribute III, Extra Action Boost III, Sprint Boost I
Mad Munitions III, Blood Trail III, Supreme Cleave III

Harper Agent (11 AP)

Agent of Good I
Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
Know the Angles III, Harper Leadership III

Human (1 AP)

Damage Boost

Leveling Guide

Hum0 Damage Boost; (Bank 3 AP)
FB0 Die Hard; FB1 Power Rage I, II; (Bank 2 AP)
FB2 Sprint Boost I; FB2 Extra Action Boost I, II, III; (Bank 2 AP)
FB0 Frenzied Toughness; FB3 Supreme Cleave I, II, III; Rav0 Furious Rage; Rav1 Barbarian Power Attack I
Rav1 Barbarian Power Attack II, III; Rav1 Hardy Rage I; Rav0 Pain Touch
Rav2 Melee Power Boost I, II, III; Hrp0 Agent of Good I
Hrp1 Harper Enchantment; Rav1 Do You Like Pain? I; Rav2 I Like Pain I
FB0 Frenzy; Rav0 Demoralizing Success; Hrp1 Traveler's Toughness I, II
Hrp2 Harper Leadership I, II, III; Rav2 Cruel Cut I
Rav2 Cruel Cut II, III; Rav3 Festering Wound I, II
Rav3 Festering Wound III; Rav1 Hardy Rage II, III; Rav4 Dismember I
Rav4 Dismember II, III; Rav1 Do You Like Pain? II, III
Rav2 I Like Pain II, III; Rav3 Strength
Rav0 Pain Touch II; Rav5 Blood Strength
Rav5 Critical Rage I, II; Hrp2 Know the Angles I
Hrp2 Know the Angles II, III; FB2 Blood Tribute I, II
FB2 Blood Tribute III; FB3 Blood Trail I, II, III
FB0 Frenzied Toughness II; FB1 Extra Rage I, II, III
FB2 Angry Arms I, II, III; FB3 Mad Munitions I
Rav0 Subsiding Fury; FB3 Mad Munitions II, III; FB0 Death Frenzy


Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought

Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost III, Strength
Momentum Swing III, Imp. Power Attack
Lay Waste
Anvil of Thunder
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Headman's Chop

Significant DPS improvement, relatively few survivability sacrifices. I don't consider hirelings to be essential after you have Blood Strength, but whatever.

[kanordog]

Same advice as above, I would go human and 18 barb/whatever

Barbs got 5 (base) skill points per level so they have more to spend, on the other hand be aware that You have to break rage to use trapping skills or use wands, scrolls.

[Spoonwelder]

Same advice as above, I would go human and 18 barb/whatever

Barbs got 5 (base) skill points per level so they have more to spend, on the other hand be aware that You have to break rage to use trapping skills or use wands, scrolls.

This....it is insanely annoying to have to break rage to do traps....the time lost trapping is t worth the cost gain soloing and as a barb you have the hp and trap saves with uncanny dodge to survive traps the barbarian way even without evasion.

so I would consider pure barb as the capstones are decent as well

[Zaharia]

Thank you everyone for your time to reply. You have given me much to study and contemplate and I thank you all. Still learning DDO.

I will changed my plan to do 18 lvls of and 2 lvls of X. I have a follow-up question to this. With a solo barbarian, is giving up Rogue's lvl2 evasion worth getting an extra melee feat from Fighter?

I chose Half-Orc because I wanted to explore more off DDO outside of human and drow which are what all my other characters are. I thought the half-Orc race enhancement tree had some good stuff for two handed fighting so was going to focus exclusively on that and let two weapon and range go to the waste side. I understand the advise above is to do human, but I am still thinking.

I am working in 32 point build system and buying a supreme +6 tome. unbongwah's details are deep and insightful. I was surprised to see INT as second highest stat for a barbarian. When I looked at skills table I saw the return. From the info I gathered CON is only the second highest stat if pure-class barbarian build?

In the DDO game, is there very much difference between skill pt 20 and skill pt 23? I mean is "20" good enough are does a build let other skill go to spend the extra points to get 23 because it is what is needed?

Also, skills balance, tumble, jump and listen were lower than what I expected. unbongwah knows much more than I do, but I need help understanding what I am being told. Can someone with a lot of barbarian time under their belt explain to me why these skills are less important to a Barbarian/Rogue build?

[changelingamuck]

I will changed my plan to do 18 lvls of and 2 lvls of X. I have a follow-up question to this. With a solo barbarian, is giving up Rogue's lvl2 evasion worth getting an extra melee feat from Fighter?

In order to benefit from evasion, you have to be wearing light armor/cloth armor/no armor. Barbarians inherently have medium armor proficiency and can take heavy armor proficiency at the cost of a feat. You lose a sizable chunk of Physical Resistance Rating by choosing to wear light armor on a barbarian. So, you need to add that loss of PRR to the 'Cons' column of your Pros/Cons list there.

That being said, it might be worth it to you to have evasion or be able to do traps or whatever. There aren't necessarily 'right answers' when it comes to these things. It often comes down to pretty subjective, ambiguous trade-offs, Pros/Cons, for making various build choices. Advice can be nice; but try not to fall into a mindset on here where 'forum build experts' are providing you with all the 'correct' choices and you're not making choices based on how you personally would like your character to play because those choices are 'wrong' (when that's really a matter of preference).

[EllisDee37]

With a solo barbarian, is giving up Rogue's lvl2 evasion worth getting an extra melee feat from Fighter?

Depends on your reflex save. Evasion only works if you make your saving throw. If you fail your reflex save, evasion literally does nothing. To be honest, I think pure barbarian is a better choice than any of the alternatives on multiple levels: More powerful, more flavorful, and more fun.

From the info I gathered CON is only the second highest stat if pure-class barbarian build?

Yep, strength #1, constitution #2, everything else is irrelevant. (But you need lots of int if you want to be a trapper, as shown in unbongwah's sample build.)

In the DDO game, is there very much difference between skill pt 20 and skill pt 23?[/B] I mean is "20" good enough are does a build let other skill go to spend the extra points to get 23 because it is what is needed?

Also, skills balance, tumble, jump and listen were lower than what I expected. unbongwah knows much more than I do, but I need help understanding what I am being told. Can someone with a lot of barbarian time under their belt explain to me why these skills are less important to a Barbarian/Rogue build?

Not just barbarians, and barbarian rogues, but for all classes in general, the following notes apply:

Any skill worth taking to 20 is worth maxing at 23.

Balance is nearly useless, fortunately or unfortunately depending on your perspective. Don't waste points on balance with the exception of SWF builds (who need it for feat prereqs) or rogue splash builds, who will almost always put 4 points into balance at level 1 just to have somewhere to spend points.

All builds should put exactly 1 full rank in tumble. The lone exception would be a pure (or mostly pure?) rogue build who has a reason to spend a lot on tumble.

Listen is fun, but not particularly useful. It isn't worth extra starting int for the skill points to pay for it on pretty much any build.

There are two different jump goals: 30, which allows you to make just about every single designed jump in the game. (As in, if a quest design intentionally includes a big jump, the score needed for it is almost universally 30.) The second goal is 40, which is the jump cap. Anything more than 40 is wasted. You get strength modifier to jump, and as a barbarian you're going to have tons of strength. You'll almost certainly end up way, way, way over 40.