I had a crazy idea for end game

[jakeelala]

What if devs did whatever they needed to scale up all old raids to a max level LE difficulty (and LN/LH), or even slightly harder. Or way harder (Reaper?). In any case, the point would be that any raid could be played at end game at a challenging level. XP can be equivalent to other end game raids.

The sort of novel part of this though is that these older raids would drop a token, which would have a turn in value that was fair/balanced/equivilent for any other raids special material drops. So, you could run an LE level 36 Titan, and get a certain number of tokens which could be turned in for:
-MA/LoB
-Red Scales and Shards (Dragon)
-Phlogistons (Shadow Dragon)
-Legendary Shroud Mats (L Shroud)
-Demon Queen Shards (DQ)
Slavers Collectibles (U32)
etc.

This would allow people to play the content they want, at end game, with a purpose, and not penalize them for liking content with no real tangible loot rewards at end game. And their friends and strangers would be incentivized too. Moreover, the grindy and unpleasant nature of say 100 runs through the new U32 content to get enough mats for a 5-piece set could be significantly less boring and eye-bleeding inducing by running old content at level and still work toward earning those mats through trade in raid tokens.

This seems like an obvious and easy thing to greatly increase the available end game content for this game for everyone.

Am I taking crazy pills?

[Atheok]

/signed

Anything for an endgame.

Some similar talks here. And there might be many others, forgotten on the forums.

Improving Endgame: Suggestions

Mythic level Raids

[Vaultie]

good idea.

i miss the days when you would log on nightly and run a couple raids every other night or whatever your schedule was.

[BigErkyKid]

This is not crazy, it is great. About time they integrated rates into a broader thing.

[Nyata]

actually I like any idea for raids that does not involve twenty completions per life and character to get anything, so I am with you too. Just would love to add that the tokens (like the tempest, shroud, and hox runes) should be bound to account, not character.

[Gremmlynn]

It would sure allow players to get what they want faster or cheaper. That "100 runs" of the same raid, right now takes ~300 days, 99 timer bypasses or some combination of the two. Allow all raid runs to count towards getting those few items you want from any of them and players will be "winning" the game faster and we would be back to having no end game.

Though this idea would at least give us something to do at end game for a while.

[Ellihor]

They could just put a bankable xp token as reward to run LE (and wathever reaper or new difficulty) raids. BTA too.

[LagMonsterrrrrr]

Even better make all mobs immune to magic misseles, ranged atacks and every bs warlock damage.

That will be real endgame.

[KoobTheProud]

Queue the trolls complaining that people just want end game for "free" and that 100 raids or 99 timer bypasses are the price of doing business at end game.

[Gremmlynn]

Queue the trolls complaining that people just want end game for "free" and that 100 raids or 99 timer bypasses are the price of doing business at end game.

More a matter of keeping the current content valid until the next set is ready.

[KoobTheProud]

More a matter of keeping the current content valid until the next set is ready.

I'm not arguing against that point, just that a fair number of posters seem to be real big on "it's always been a death march and it was for us, stop complaining and march!"

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Am I taking crazy pills?

It is extremely important that we have a semi-stable endgame because everyone on the TR track is gonna end up somewhere. Most casual players are reaching the end of their TR grind and u29 was great for that, but HoX and TS are not exactly run daily now.

I disagree EXTREMELY that old school raid items should be transferable for a new difficulty, but that's the only crazy talk you've got. We all know how plentiful some of that stuff is and why.

It would sure allow players to get what they want faster or cheaper. That "100 runs" of the same raid, right now takes ~300 days, 99 timer bypasses or some combination of the two. Allow all raid runs to count towards getting those few items you want from any of them and players will be "winning" the game faster and we would be back to having no end game.

Under the new (and the old) system you could run multiple characters. I had a guildie finish a 5-piece greensteel this week, and he only came back to the game 2 months ago. He did not use raid bypass timers.

Multiple toons should be incentivized, because it extends the TR cycle for many people.

[KoobTheProud]

How about the game being interesting enough to play that people made multiple alts to see different angles of it instead of hopping on the wheel and plugging away at a character for whom a good end game will never emerge due to the wheel being the thing?

[BigErkyKid]

How about the game being interesting enough to play that people made multiple alts to see different angles of it instead of hopping on the wheel and plugging away at a character for whom a good end game will never emerge due to the wheel being the thing?

I don't have time to play multiple toons capable of end game raiding. Anything that encourages this loses me. That's why I kinda liked btc, those with more time can keep going at it to have a stable of toons. But when it is bta then more "casual" (as in time spent) players fall behind big time.

I think the grind we have right now should be substituted by difficulty gating in end game. Let the grinders TR for 3x everything in 4 toons, provide interesting challenges in end game.

That's not where the game is going but I wonder if by doing so it would cater to more players. Right now most achievement oriented people I know has simply quit the game.

[JOTMON]

Is it crazy when many players feel the same way..

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ic-level-Raids

Mythic level content would be interesting..
Expand the story line and have Erandis Vol go around to all the previous house raids (except shroud) enticing the help of all the old defeated bosses as she tries to unlock her own Mark of Death.
Thus adding a Mythic level raid for all pre-existing Eberron Epic raids.

~substitute Legendary for Mythic..(its an old thread)...


https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...hlight=endgame

Max level quests/raids at max difficulty all LE CR35....could have it as Champion mode where every mob is a champion.
...Remnant farming heaven... add some more interesting high cost remnants for turn in..

End reward chests and/or LE Raid chain end rewards..
Cosmetics.
Remnants.
BTA guild renown stones
BTA XP stones
improved random consumables.. things like heal potions,Harm Potions, etc...
Max level chests also give better chance for cream of the crop random drops..

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ic-level-Raids

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ent-difficulty

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...477214-Endgame!

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...mp-Raid-Tokens

~snip~
Would prefer to see ALL the raids changed so that they remain endgame viable at all times..
Perhaps using the level drop down and having runnable raids like the festivals.. then you could run raids at all difficulty levels
Change all the Raids to a token reward that can purchase a variety of level appropriate upgradeable rewards from each raid pack, ..including scaling level named items...
Then you could have raids for level 21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35.. (whatever their start point is through to level 35) with improved token drop rates based on your character level and raid challenge level (like the festivals)
something like unique slottable upgradeable augments crafted from ingredients available at each tier of the raid levels.. (like cove gems that drop from different difficulties)
have an option to sell back named items and S/S/S for discounted value of tokens to save on inventory space stacking..

then all the raids can remain viable for all players from level 20 through 30. with scaled difficulty and rewards.
revamped loot from all the raids would rebreathe life into many antiquated raids..

[KoobTheProud]

I don't have time to play multiple toons capable of end game raiding. Anything that encourages this loses me. That's why I kinda liked btc, those with more time can keep going at it to have a stable of toons. But when it is bta then more "casual" (as in time spent) players fall behind big time.

I think the grind we have right now should be substituted by difficulty gating in end game. Let the grinders TR for 3x everything in 4 toons, provide interesting challenges in end game.

That's not where the game is going but I wonder if by doing so it would cater to more players. Right now most achievement oriented people I know has simply quit the game.

It would take less grinding to outfit 2 or 3 characters for end game than it does to gain the past lives necessary to make them optimal for end game. The problem in either case is that there is no real end game at this point, or to put it a different way, the only end game available right now is a few re-hashed raids that were end game SIX years ago.

That's why people have quit. The game is currently setup to encourage grinding that does nothing but make you grind better at the end.

[JOTMON]

It would take less grinding to outfit 2 or 3 characters for end game than it does to gain the past lives necessary to make them optimal for end game. The problem in either case is that there is no real end game at this point, or to put it a different way, the only end game available right now is a few re-hashed raids that were end game SIX years ago.

That's why people have quit. The game is currently setup to encourage grinding that does nothing but make you grind better at the end.

grinding for purpose is useful.. grinding for pointless isn't..
currently the game has killed farming/grinding content since most named items are no longer worthy of the grind.

We lost a lot of players to nerfs/revamps/lag/partial passes.. that made vested players not want to play toons they had spent a lot of time building.
some invalidated indirectly by making their once endgame worthy toons inferior to updated classes... with a long wait for the overall ongoing 'balancing'
between that and the lack of max level challenging content, remaining players have shifted tracks to TR lives which scatters players among the level ranges.


every new content release, adds new different ingredients and completely blows away or otherwise invalidates older content rewards instead of upgrading, enhancing or offering unique stackable bonuses which causes a lot of content to become pointless.
We don't progress by upgrading existing items, we trump existing items as we level but have TR's to keep us holding older hard to get items that are not worth regrindng..
was hoping we would get a customizable Sentient weapon that levels as we do with unlockable traits by consuming named items would have been useful, for ongoing level grinding purposes, storage issues , and functional usability.


Currently grinding for endgame is pointless, not enough max level content to challenge top level players and keep them at 'endgame' levels.
So, we fall into TR's as a natural progression.. TR's while useful also punishes grinding and collecting items by limiting storage space..
Players become stuck with items that 'may be useful someday', there is no long term storage medium, or efficient storage system... storage is clunky, poor search/filter tools, limited space, lag issues...
This is compounded by BTC items.. TR lives use different gear so accumulated grindy items become dust collectors in bank/TR cache stored for potential future lives.

[jakeelala]

It is extremely important that we have a semi-stable endgame because everyone on the TR track is gonna end up somewhere. Most casual players are reaching the end of their TR grind and u29 was great for that, but HoX and TS are not exactly run daily now.

I disagree EXTREMELY that old school raid items should be transferable for a new difficulty, but that's the only crazy talk you've got. We all know how plentiful some of that stuff is and why.

I'm not really sure what you're talking about here. I'm suggesting people can get rewarded for running any raid at end game difficulty with the addition of some sort of token or drop that allows them to work toward rewards from other raids. Since loot quality and usefulness varies from raid to raid, but quality of the content is static, it is the loot which needs to become flexible, so that the content can remain relevant.