Death Knight= Lord Soth?

[Aurora1979]

I was just running through Lords of dust and noticed the death knights. |It never really occurred to me before.

When I was young and getting into D&D I only really read the DragonLance books.

Lord Soth was a BEAST though. A cohort of Banshees, skeletal knights, chariots pulled by skeletal horses.... His Nightmare.

How come the death knights in DDO are so..... pony.

Is it a world thing, is it a translation to game thing?

Speaking of which, if the Hero's of the dragonlance saga where in Ebberon, in our game, as they appear during the war of the dragons. What sort of levels/ classes would they be?

Just some musings really...........

[Marshal_Lannes]

Well remember, when Lords of Dust came out the Death Knights were a bit more formidable. There is also Dagan who is a Death Knight in Thunderholme. Since I am sure they do not have the rights to Dragonlance, they can't bring in Lord Soth and maybe can't even use his likeness. Personally I think Lord Soth would function best as a powerful sub-boss like Sulomades in ToD. As for a hypothetical of what if on the dragonlance characters...

Laurana would be an elven Paladin. She was more a leader than a fighter, but if you want to portray the Golden General with a dragon lance you could make her a THF L20 Paladin with Sireth. Tourney Armor is gold so that fits her.

Tannis would be a half-elven Ranger/fighter mix. DWS/Tempest would be the most accurate.

Tasselhoff a halfling L20 Rogue, 40 points in TA tree, some in mechanic for stealth skills, some in Harper.

Sturm hmm...in the AD&D dragon lance book they make Knights of Solomnia a character class. I guess we stick with that idea and make him a PDK fighter, S&B.

Caramon, Kitiara and Flint are all fighters.

Raistlin is a rather ineffective L20 wizard in the game. The spells of the AD&D world really don't translate to the game.

Crysania is a cleric but you can't use spells except for cure disease and have to look sad and conflicted in all your quests.

[Aurora1979]

Well remember, when Lords of Dust came out the Death Knights were a bit more formidable. There is also Dagan who is a Death Knight in Thunderholme. Since I am sure they do not have the rights to Dragonlance, they can't bring in Lord Soth and maybe can't even use his likeness. Personally I think Lord Soth would function best as a powerful sub-boss like Sulomades in ToD. As for a hypothetical of what if on the dragonlance characters...

Laurana would be an elven Paladin. She was more a leader than a fighter, but if you want to portray the Golden General with a dragon lance you could make her a THF L20 Paladin with Sireth. Tourney Armor is gold so that fits her.

Tannis would be a half-elven Ranger/fighter mix. DWS/Tempest would be the most accurate.

Tasselhoff a halfling L20 Rogue, 40 points in TA tree, some in mechanic for stealth skills, some in Harper.

Sturm hmm...in the AD&D dragon lance book they make Knights of Solomnia a character class. I guess we stick with that idea and make him a PDK fighter, S&B.

Caramon, Kitiara and Flint are all fighters.

Raistlin is a rather ineffective L20 wizard in the game. The spells of the AD&D world really don't translate to the game.

Crysania is a cleric but you can't use spells except for cure disease and have to look sad and conflicted in all your quests.

Crysania.. lol

I havent run thunderholme yet so I'll have to have a look into that. It would be sweet to see a sub boss DK. I guess though, like vampires, what in the books were rare and terrifying in game are just standard mobs.

Raistlin always annoyed me, even though he was one of my favorite characters. He was clearly powerful, beating the white wizard dude in his test, beating back fistandathisname and then takhesis but apart from the MASSIVE shows of power the rest were petty. A fireball here, charm there but most "light" and "featherfall"

The rest are good shouts though. I always thought of Sturm/ Knights of Solomina as Paladin too, as well as Laurana though I had her down as more of a fighter your reasoning is sound.

[FranOhmsford]

I was just running through Lords of dust and noticed the death knights. |It never really occurred to me before.

When I was young and getting into D&D I only really read the DragonLance books.

Lord Soth was a BEAST though. A cohort of Banshees, skeletal knights, chariots pulled by skeletal horses.... His Nightmare.

How come the death knights in DDO are so..... pony.

Is it a world thing, is it a translation to game thing?

Speaking of which, if the Hero's of the dragonlance saga where in Ebberon, in our game, as they appear during the war of the dragons. What sort of levels/ classes would they be?

Just some musings really...........

Lord Soth isn't just any old Death Knight, He's the ruler of a Ravenloft Realm and the reason that Realm exists!

The Abbot isn't just any old Lich.
Velah isn't just any old Dragon.



As for the Heroes of the Lance:

Caramon Majere = Lvl 3 Human Fighter / 2 Barbarian
Raistlin Majere = Lvl 5 Human Wizard {His highest level spell is Fireball}
Tanis Half-Elven = Lvl 5 Half Elf Ranger / 2 Fighter {Tanis is the Leader of the Group and the second eldest after Flint}.
Sturm Brightblade = Lvl 5 Human Paladin
Flint = Lvl 7 Dwarf Barbarian {The oldest character and long retired from adventuring at the beginning of the books}
Tasslehoff Burrfoot = Lvl 7 Kender Rogue {Rogues levelled faster than other characters back then}
Goldmoon = Lvl 5 Human Favoured Soul {Cleric back then but more like a FavSoul by DDO's standards}
Riverwind = Lvl 5 Human Barbarian

The Heroes of the Lance were NOT High Level, They started out as veterans of a few adventures but nothing major.

By the end of the first 3 books none of the Heroes are significantly more powerful than at the start but:

Caramon Lvl 5 Fighter / 3 Barbarian
Raistlin Lvl 8 Wizard
Tanis Lvl 6 Ranger / 3 Fighter
Sturm Lvl 6 Paladin*
Flint Lvl 8 Barbarian
Tasslehoff Lvl 10 Rogue
Goldmoon Lvl 9 FavSoul
Riverwind Lvl 8 Barbarian

Taking them to Lvl 30:

Caramon Lvl 12 Fighter / 8 Barbarian {Legendary Dreadnought}
Raistlin Lvl 20 Wizard {Magister}
Tanis Lvl 14 Fighter / 6 Ranger {Fury of the Wild}
Tasslehoff Lvl 20 Rogue {Shiradi Champion - Tas is a Thrower}
Goldmoon Lvl 20 FavSoul {Exalted Angel}
Riverwind Lvl 20 Barbarian {Fury of the Wild}
Sturm and Flint would not get to Lvl 30.


Oh and despite Raistlin's alignment NO HE IS NOT A PALE MASTER!

[FranOhmsford]

Well remember, when Lords of Dust came out the Death Knights were a bit more formidable. There is also Dagan who is a Death Knight in Thunderholme. Since I am sure they do not have the rights to Dragonlance, they can't bring in Lord Soth and maybe can't even use his likeness. Personally I think Lord Soth would function best as a powerful sub-boss like Sulomades in ToD. As for a hypothetical of what if on the dragonlance characters...


Crysania is a cleric but you can't use spells except for cure disease and have to look sad and conflicted in all your quests.

Who is Crysania?
The Cleric in Dragonlance is Goldmoon.

As for Lord Soth - He's got a Realm in Ravenloft, He's way more powerful than Sully!

[Aurora1979]

Lord Soth isn't just any old Death Knight, He's the ruler of a Ravenloft Realm and the reason that Realm exists!

The Abbot isn't just any old Lich.
Velah isn't just any old Dragon.

Good point, I forgot about the ravenloft backstory! Did he ever go one on one with Strad? I seem to remember them meeting in a book.... Though I might be mixing it with the one about a friendly vampire from FR.

So, some more crosee world them, how do you think The Abbott would fare against.... Say Strad, because I cant think of any other Lich's

What about Velah V Cinder or Cyan from the DL Chronicles?

As for the Heroes of the Lance:

Caramon Majere = Lvl 3 Human Fighter / 2 Barbarian
Raistlin Majere = Lvl 5 Human Wizard {His highest level spell is Fireball}
Tanis Half-Elven = Lvl 5 Half Elf Ranger / 2 Fighter {Tanis is the Leader of the Group and the second eldest after Flint}.
Sturm Brightblade = Lvl 5 Human Paladin
Flint = Lvl 7 Dwarf Barbarian {The oldest character and long retired from adventuring at the beginning of the books}
Tasslehoff Burrfoot = Lvl 7 Kender Rogue {Rogues levelled faster than other characters back then}
Goldmoon = Lvl 5 Human Favoured Soul {Cleric back then but more like a FavSoul by DDO's standards}
Riverwind = Lvl 5 Human Barbarian

The Heroes of the Lance were NOT High Level, They started out as veterans of a few adventures but nothing major.

By the end of the first 3 books none of the Heroes are significantly more powerful than at the start but:

Caramon Lvl 5 Fighter / 3 Barbarian
Raistlin Lvl 8 Wizard
Tanis Lvl 6 Ranger / 3 Fighter
Sturm Lvl 6 Paladin*
Flint Lvl 8 Barbarian
Tasslehoff Lvl 10 Rogue
Goldmoon Lvl 9 FavSoul
Riverwind Lvl 8 Barbarian

Taking them to Lvl 30:

Caramon Lvl 12 Fighter / 8 Barbarian {Legendary Dreadnought}
Raistlin Lvl 20 Wizard {Magister}
Tanis Lvl 14 Fighter / 6 Ranger {Fury of the Wild}
Tasslehoff Lvl 20 Rogue {Shiradi Champion - Tas is a Thrower}
Goldmoon Lvl 20 FavSoul {Exalted Angel}
Riverwind Lvl 20 Barbarian {Fury of the Wild}
Sturm and Flint would not get to Lvl 30.


Oh and despite Raistlin's alignment NO HE IS NOT A PALE MASTER!

Oh you have them waaaay lower level than I would have guessed. Although, when I played PnP we didnt zerg up to level 20 so I guess the high levels are an in-game thing moreso.

I wouldnt of said raist was a PM either.... maybe Dalamar, his apprentice. He was a bit shady.

[Aurora1979]

Who is Crysania?
The Cleric in Dragonlance is Goldmoon.

As for Lord Soth - He's got a Realm in Ravenloft, He's way more powerful than Sully!

Isnt Crysania the one that Raistlin takes back in time to sort out the high cleric that caused the cataclysim?

I think he needed to use her to get into the dark Queens world or something.

[Baktiotha]

Tanis is explicitly stated NOT to be a ranger. He is explicitly described as a fighter who happens to have feats that mirror a ranger. But, he has none of the ranger class abilities. In DDO he would still be a pure fighter.

Caramon, Riverwind and Flint are explicitly stated to be fighters as well. These all come from the original authors. There is no reason to treat them as barbarians in DDO.

Goldmoon is explicitly identified as a cleric. I am not sure if she should be considered a favored soul in DDO. The first Dragonlance books date to 1984 and favored soul wasn't introduced until 2003.

Sturm is a knight. I am nearly positive that Solamnia is a place and not a deity. While he is no doubt LG he is probably a fighter in DDO rather than a paladin.

Raistlin is a wizard. He is most probably much higher level than the rest of the group and they are probably suffering XP loss due to power leveling. He is extremely powerful but limited due to his physical condition. He also follows D&D rules regarding spells per day vs DDO rules that include spell points. In DDO he probably should be represented by a minimal CON (with CON negatives from items if possible) and very low INT (to limit spell points) wizard who also happens to have only middling CHA, STR, DEX and WIS. Probably initial character generation with no build points in CON and only enough in INT so that level ups will allow max spell level. Then no gear or tomes to increase INT, instead spell power items and spell penetration and DC items/feats/etc. Very hard to replicate in DDO I would think.

[Aurora1979]

Tanis is explicitly stated NOT to be a ranger. He is explicitly described as a fighter who happens to have feats that mirror a ranger. But, he has none of the ranger class abilities. In DDO he would still be a pure fighter.

Caramon, Riverwind and Flint are explicitly stated to be fighters as well. These all come from the original authors. There is no reason to treat them as barbarians in DDO.

Goldmoon is explicitly identified as a cleric. I am not sure if she should be considered a favored soul in DDO. The first Dragonlance books date to 1984 and favored soul wasn't introduced until 2003.

Sturm is a knight. I am nearly positive that Solamnia is a place and not a deity. While he is no doubt LG he is probably a fighter in DDO rather than a paladin.

Raistlin is a wizard. He is most probably much higher level than the rest of the group and they are probably suffering XP loss due to power leveling. He is extremely powerful but limited due to his physical condition. He also follows D&D rules regarding spells per day vs DDO rules that include spell points. In DDO he probably should be represented by a minimal CON (with CON negatives from items if possible) and very low INT (to limit spell points) wizard who also happens to have only middling CHA, STR, DEX and WIS. Probably initial character generation with no build points in CON and only enough in INT so that level ups will allow max spell level. Then no gear or tomes to increase INT, instead spell power items and spell penetration and DC items/feats/etc. Very hard to replicate in DDO I would think.

When you say expicitly stated, in the books? I dont remember that much to be honest.

Solomina is a place yea, but I still thought of them, the order of the rose guys anyway as paladins.

I guess, with the, basically, absence of gods they couldnt really be pladins until the return. Having said that, because of the fact they are certainly, supposed to be, lawful good I just always imagined them as such.

Huma on board a dragon with a lance, fighting for Paladine would certainly seem to fit the bill. But thats all long dead history by the time the books start.

Also, your assessment on Raistlins fair, I would just say one thing though, for all the dumping of stats you are going to need to go and solo a god on their own home plane.

Caramon and flint are definelty fights, RIverwind I'm not so sure. I dont think barbarians were the same class thing as they are now back then.

I think they used to be fighters with some special abilities rather than their own class.

He comes from a Nomadic tribe, wears outlandish clothing. Is distru****l of people from larger societies and gets battle rage. In ddo Id say barbarian would be a fair class for him. If not you'd want to play him as a barbaric fighter.

[FranOhmsford]

Tanis is explicitly stated NOT to be a ranger. He is explicitly described as a fighter who happens to have feats that mirror a ranger. But, he has none of the ranger class abilities. In DDO he would still be a pure fighter.

Not in the books he isn't.

And in DDO the 6 Ranger levels would be pretty obvious to get those Ranger Feats.

Also remember that back in those days Rangers didn't get any Spellcasting ability until Lvl 7 or 8 - I think we can safely give him Barkskin and Cure Light Wounds in DDO though.

Caramon, Riverwind and Flint are explicitly stated to be fighters as well. These all come from the original authors. There is no reason to treat them as barbarians in DDO.

Riverwind is blatantly a Barbarian - And Barbarian in itself was not a Class back then, it was a Fighter Kit.
Today he'd be an Occult Slayer with a side order of FB.

Caramon and Flint definitely had Barbarian as at least a Dual-Class.

Goldmoon is explicitly identified as a cleric. I am not sure if she should be considered a favored soul in DDO. The first Dragonlance books date to 1984 and favored soul wasn't introduced until 2003.

Yes Favoured Soul was not a thing back then but as the one and only person in the entirety of Krynn who the Gods gave Divine Powers to at that point in Krynn's history she IS a FavSoul!
She did NOT ask for her Powers, She did NOT Worship as a Cleric prior to being given those Powers - She was chosen by the Gods and not the other way round - She IS A FAVOURED SOUL!

Sturm is a knight. I am nearly positive that Solamnia is a place and not a deity. While he is no doubt LG he is probably a fighter in DDO rather than a paladin.

The Knights of Solamnia are Paladins without a Paladin's Powers - But that's because at that time in Krynn's history the Gods aren't giving out those Powers - Sturm's a Paladin though perhaps 2 Pally/ the rest Fighter might fit him in DDO.

Raistlin is a wizard. He is most probably much higher level than the rest of the group and they are probably suffering XP loss due to power leveling. He is extremely powerful but limited due to his physical condition. He also follows D&D rules regarding spells per day vs DDO rules that include spell points. In DDO he probably should be represented by a minimal CON (with CON negatives from items if possible) and very low INT (to limit spell points) wizard who also happens to have only middling CHA, STR, DEX and WIS. Probably initial character generation with no build points in CON and only enough in INT so that level ups will allow max spell level. Then no gear or tomes to increase INT, instead spell power items and spell penetration and DC items/feats/etc. Very hard to replicate in DDO I would think.

Now this is just ludicrous!

Raistlin is low level - His highest level spell at that time was FIREBALL!
That means he cannot possibly have been higher lvl than 6 and more likely 5 as he'd only just learned Fireball!

I'd give him Con, Dex and Str Penalties yes but his Charisma and Int are maxed out and he's pretty wise too - He's the guy Tanis turns to for advice even though Sturm doesn't trust him!

Raistlin is known to use Charm Spells often - In AD&D 2nd Ed. A Specialist Enchanter required at least 16 Charisma {possibly 17} as well as minimum 12 Int!

Raistlin is Evil Aligned and a Generalist Wizard who would probably go Enchantment Archmage with secondary Evoc in DDO.


Oh....Raistlin does get more powerful later on {he's at least lvl 9 when he goes to take the Wizard's test} but then again so do the rest.

[Baktiotha]

When I say explicitly I mean from the authors. I don't think the books describe them in class terms, at least not generally speaking. But the authors have spoken about how each character came about and what they were in the original D&D game they came out of.

The knights, IIRC, are divided into 2 groupings and at least some of them are paladins. I just don't think Sturm does anything to merit that classification. All of his behavior can be explained by his being a knight without needing to be a paladin. I don't think he ever lays on hands or smites evil or casts holy sword.

Raistlin is an enigma. What's the quote, a riddle wrapped in a mystery wrapped in an enigma -- something like that. There are moments when he is totally powerful and others where, well, where he doesn't seem to be much use at all. Maybe he remembers to gear up before he goes soloing. The books show him growing in power and much more than the others. Like I said, he's probably getting full XP from the quests.

Riverwind was a fighter when conceived and the books written. You may have a point about barbarian being a sub-class. There is a need to be careful confusing barbarian as a character class with barbarian cultures -- or even with the concept of barbarians being uncivilized. In fantasy it is a trope but D&D novels don't always hold to that. In DDO I would suppose that there is some justification for a barbarian/fighter multiclass but the barbarian should not be stressed and pure barbarian is definitely wrong.

[FranOhmsford]

When I say explicitly I mean from the authors. I don't think the books describe them in class terms, at least not generally speaking. But the authors have spoken about how each character came about and what they were in the original D&D game they came out of.

1) Dragonlance was a World of low magic, this went for Wizards too where the highest level Mage on the Planet was like lvl 14 or 15! But especially went for Divines with the Gods having vanished!

2) Barbarian as a Class didn't exist back then but in D&D the Barbarian Class is very specifically based on Barbarian Cultures - Rage was part of the Berserker which was another type of Barbarian not the Class as a Whole until I believe 3rd Ed. conflated the two.

Eberron in DDO is a very high magic world where these characters simply would not fit in without changes to fit.
See Barbarian not just for the Rage.

The knights, IIRC, are divided into 2 groupings and at least some of them are paladins. I just don't think Sturm does anything to merit that classification. All of his behavior can be explained by his being a knight without needing to be a paladin. I don't think he ever lays on hands or smites evil or casts holy sword.

Sturm is the BEST OF THEM!

He's the only one who does do stuff to merit full Paladinhood!

Holy Sword was a Lvl 5 ability where you had to go and FIND IT {Preferably a Holy Avenger but if you were unlucky all you'd get was a Defender} - It was NOT a Spell!

Lay on Hands wouldn't have been possible in the timeline of the books because the Gods weren't handing out their Powers even to supposed Clerics of them.

Raistlin is an enigma. What's the quote, a riddle wrapped in a mystery wrapped in an enigma -- something like that. There are moments when he is totally powerful and others where, well, where he doesn't seem to be much use at all. Maybe he remembers to gear up before he goes soloing. The books show him growing in power and much more than the others. Like I said, he's probably getting full XP from the quests.

No - The Books very specifically follow him on his later journeys, same with his brother Caramon.

Raistlin starts out the War of the Lance at Lvl 5 and is lvl 8 or 9 by the end of it, He's lvl 9-12 when he takes the Wizard tests and soon outstrips even the mightiest Wizards on Krynn afterwards.
His Intelligence is off the scale!
His Charisma is also very very high though it's reduced due to his looks. {Comeliness was a stat in AD&D separate from Charisma}.

Magic Items were exceedingly rare in those books - Raistlin did not have many and certainly didn't gear up in DDO terms!

Riverwind was a fighter when conceived and the books written. You may have a point about barbarian being a sub-class. There is a need to be careful confusing barbarian as a character class with barbarian cultures -- or even with the concept of barbarians being uncivilized. In fantasy it is a trope but D&D novels don't always hold to that. In DDO I would suppose that there is some justification for a barbarian/fighter multiclass but the barbarian should not be stressed and pure barbarian is definitely wrong.

The Barbarian Class did not exist!

Riverwind was a Barbarian who for game reasons had to use the basic Fighter Class as he's clearly not a Paladin! Though as I'll go into below Ranger would have been a possibility.

The Barbarian Class exists in DDO and Riverwind would be an Occult Slayer with a side order in FB {As someone else has already stated he was actually known to go Berserk}.

There's also a possibility that his main Weapon was the Bow, while he was known to his tribe as a Scout and Loner spending his time in the Wilderness which could lead to a Barb/Ranger mix in DDO.



Finally...And I'm not going to bother taking this argument any further after this...The Characters in Dragons of Autumn Twilight were Lvl 5-7 - None of them were Powerful Heroes, they were Mercenaries and Adventurers who found themselves at the centre of a storm.
By the end of those Books they'd each gained 2-3 levels but no more.
Paladins and Rangers in D&D back then didn't gain Spellcasting ability till Lvl 7-8 and there's absolutely no reason to cite no spellcasting as a reason for Sturm not being a Paladin {Especially as he doesn't appear in Book 3!} or Tanis not having Ranger Levels.

[edgarallanpoe]

I'd give him Con, Dex and Str Penalties yes but his Charisma and Int are maxed out and he's pretty wise too - He's the guy Tanis turns to for advice even though Sturm doesn't trust him!

You are all forgetting that he began his spellcasting career as an illusionist and at that time *dex* was a major requirement of an illusionist. His dexterity is mentioned several times in the book and it is his slight of hand that winds up being the difference in his battle with Fistandantilus.

[Baktiotha]

Now this is just ludicrous!

How about this, each person is going to have their interpretation and that is to be expected. However the authors themselves described the characters and how they were developed including how they were player characters at their D&D games.

The authors were very explicit in describing the characters, although fans have been speculating ever since.

I just read all of this recently when the post about a new D&D movie was made. I particularly read about Tanis so am certain he is not a ranger. In fact, the authors seem to have explicitly stated that Tanis is not a ranger.

None of the things Tanis does in the books are inconsistent with being a pure fighter.

Raistlin is a different case. What I remember reading is that Raistlin is a L20 wizard. He vastly out grows the other characters. Flint, IIRC, was depicted as a L7 fighter and among the lowest level characters in the group.

Now, since this comes from the authors and their D&D game on which the books are based I think they probably know what the characters were like.

Raistlin reminds me of a game I sat in on at Clemson University. I played an elf multiclass and most of the game I just ran around following the group. There was some grumbling about when would I contribute. Having limited spells I waited until the pivotal moment then used my spells. When all was said and done the other players determined I had role-played my character the best.

Now, that may be Raistlin. He is LE after all. He might just use fireball as his highest spell because there's no need to do more. Why waste spells when there's no need.

The question is how does someone replicate that in DDO? I suggest that you do that by holding INT down so that the player doesn't have a lot of spell points. That forces them to not just spam spells.

The point about charm and CHA is a good one and I hadn't considered that. So maybe the best representation in DDO is no build points in CON or STR, minimal build points in INT (just enough to cast L2 spells) with stat increases to INT, remaining build points into CHA. Then, no tomes or gear to boost INT until L20 (actually tome increases at normal increments is probably alright).

I'm absolutely certain that what I read recently had Raistlin as significantly higher level than the others.

[Baktiotha]

You are all forgetting that he began his spellcasting career as an illusionist and at that time *dex* was a major requirement of an illusionist. His dexterity is mentioned several times in the book and it is his slight of hand that winds up being the difference in his battle with Fistandantilus.

Grr. Good point.

[Baktiotha]

A good place to start is with the people who are geekier than we are about this. They publish something called the Dragonlance lexicon.

Their article on Tanis is at this location. Links to the other characters can be found in that article.

They (Dragonlance lexicon) list Tanis, Sturm, Caramon and Flint as fighters. They list Riverwind as a ranger. Goldmoon is listed as a cleric.

Tasslehoff is listed as a handler, which is kendar for thief, although not a malicious thief, rather one that borrows and doesn't always return.

There is another fan site found here. It lists the characters this way:

Tanis, L10 fighter
Sturm, L10 Knight of Solamnia
Caramon, L12 fighter
Flint, L7 fighter
Riverwind, L12 ranger
Goldmoon, L8 cleric
Tasslehoff, L12 handler
Raistlin, L20 wizard

[LongshotBro]

Riverwind is blatantly a Barbarian - And Barbarian in itself was not a Class back then, it was a Fighter Kit.

Kits are from AD&D 2nd edition.

Barbarian was a class from Unearthed Arcana, AD&D 1st edition, published in 1985

I like these sorts of discussions, they really hammer home the differences between video gaming and tabletop gaming. Raistlin was much more powerful than a fireball machine. Tanis was not a ranger, and Sturm, Caramon and Flint were all straight-up fighters. That's my opinion though. Goldmoon was definitely a cleric, she became a worshiper of Mishakal.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Who is Crysania?
The Cleric in Dragonlance is Goldmoon.

As for Lord Soth - He's got a Realm in Ravenloft, He's way more powerful than Sully!

The cleric in the first trilogy is Goldmoon (who got written out rather quickly). It was never specified which book, it was just 'Dragonlance'. Crysania is one of the main characters in the 2nd trilogy Test/Time of the Twins. There are obviously a ton of characters we haven't touched on yet including ones from the past age like Huma and Kith-Kinan.

[FranOhmsford]

Kits are from AD&D 2nd edition.

Barbarian was a class from Unearthed Arcana, AD&D 1st edition, published in 1985

Unearthed Arcana was one of the if not the last addition to 1st Ed. It also detailed the Cavalier Class, the Thief Acrobat Class and Comeliness.

All of those things were then dropped again for 2nd Ed. {Cavalier, Acrobat and Barbarian became kits rather than full Sub-Classes}.

Barbarian did make a comeback in 2nd Ed. with it's own class sometime around 94-95 but before and even after that it was only ever an optional extra until 3rd Ed. or possibly 3.5.

Dragons of Autumn Twilight was written in 1984, Unearthed Arcana in 1985!

Dragonlance was specific to itself and quite different to Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms - It was only when Spelljammer came out in 1989 that Krynn became linked to those other D&D Worlds.
And even that link was smashed apart by the horrific 5th Age published in 1996.


If Dragonlance wants to call it's Kender Rogues Handlers or it's blatantly obvious Paladins Knights then so be it but DDO doesn't have Handler or Knight Classes {PDK still has to take a Class} and as we're talking about what these characters would be in DDO Tasslehoff would be a Halfling Thrower Rogue {either with Monk/Ranger levels added or treated as an Acrobat because of the other use of his hoopak or staff-sling which isn't accounted for in DDO and Sturm would be a Paladin {He can't be a PDK because Puprle Dragon Knights are not Knights of the Rose!}.

If DDO had a Cavalier Class I'd put Sturm in that but DDO does not have a Cavalier Class.



As for Goldmoon - She BECAME a Worshipper of Mishakal AFTER being CHOSEN BY MISHAKAL!
This to me makes her a FavSoul because Clerics make the Choice themselves rather than having it thrust upon them.
You could of course argue for a Cleric/Soul multiclass with 2 Soul levels and Exalted Angel as main Destiny but no way is Goldmoon Pure Cleric.

[Aurora1979]

Well this heated up a bit My fault for trying to bridge two different generations and mediums of entertainment lol

With regards to the Barbarian debate, I only ever played AD&D so I assume the books came out when that was the current "rule set" that Weis and Hickman were playing/ thinking of at the time.

If i remember right, I had a look in the loft earlier but my books are gone, you couldn't roll up a Barb per say. You'd roll for a fighter as per the players handbook then have a look at the fighters handbook and decide on the backstory. Oh he was a knights squire who's lord got killed, she was a mercenary who had a change of heart because of X event or she came from a nomadic tribe of warriors and has left to avenge her Father etc.

You then get various abilities/ skills that would fill out you character. There was no Barbarian class as such. So in DDO he would definitely be a Barb/Fighter at least

Goldmoon.... In the books she is deffinetly a cleric but I get your point Fran, in DDO she could certainly be a FVS. she doesn't have a devout background, she didnt pray or seek to find her God. Mishikal chose her and she didn't really know much about it until.... wheres the place they fight the black dragon, I think. Doesn't she get killed and resurrected.

I can see the case for a FVS/ Cleric alright.

With Raistlin, I think Baktiotha is right with his PnP story. In Pnp as a low-mid level mage you didn't really get to do much, a knock here, a cantrip there and drop the bomb when necessary.

Arguably, he is the character that would least translate over to DDO. Stats aside as I agree with you Fran, he has quite high charisma in certain aspects. Visually he is not appealing after taking the test, but he has a personality that attracts people even without magic. Thats apparent throughout all the books. He is intelligent enough to decode Fistandatilus' spell book, and figure out how to enter Takhisis plane.

Plus he is dexterous, as mentioned before and seems to be quite wise, Tanis and others tend to seek him for advice.

Strength and Con, definitely dump stats though.

However, DDO does not replicate the "do I fire it now or wait till later" play of a PnP mage. It wouldn't work in a game like DDO anyhow.