Upcoming Experience Changes

[Robbenklopper]

Grouping:
A MMO should encourage People to Group for a quest.
Grouping itself has become lesser important since the uniqueness of the different classes got blurred caused by serveral known reasons. DDO is a game and it is Business. To Keep as many Players in line to Play the game as possible, compromises were done and taken to not lose the not-dedicated players, who would Play anyway. Selfhealing for not-selfhealing-classes by EDs broke it the most. The cries for not-filling raids etc were too loud at some day coz not everyone could Play every quest ... awww.
This, and maybe pl+powercreep and op, have contributed to the trend that People are or became soloists. "BYOH" and "cope alone or stay out, i can´t or won´t take an eye on you" are some Kind of Standard. And the most can cope alone today if not "gimped". Close to everyone can do everything, selfheal, trap and deal high DPS atst. As Long as These "mechanics" are not removed, there will be no Change in grouping. Besides the fact you like grouping anyway and run in a Group or not.

So, why grouping anymore? Just for the social aspect? Grouping even on the highest difficulties is just needed for raids, hell even those can be soloed.
Honestly speaking with everyone so powerful, there´s no Need to reward grouping with more xp for the quests. If one can solo anyway, a second, third etc Player makes it easier anyway! Dungeonscaling doesn´t Change this. The more, the easier.
So there is already a reward in xp coz the quest is faster finished and the xp/min IS already the reward.

If there was a quest in concept designed for 3-4 Players, this should Count for the "100%". Be glad you finished and got the xp.
More Players make it easier and one could say it should give lesser xp. Rewarding with more xp is simply paradoxical.
Lesser Players would make it harder and one could say it should give more xp. Rewarding with more xp is simply more Logical. (Hello soloists!)
But both ideas are bunkum. There´s a quest, it rewards 10.000 xp. More or less Players doens´t matter.

Flawless Bonus:
For what reason this anyway? To be proud we´re so uber? Ok, i can understand the Feeling of being happy "we did it" and nobody died, but this Feeling is defined by the difficulty i ran it. Elite. Wow. Did it, yeah! Elite rewards more xp than hard.
If "Flawless" still shall stay in the game, start every quest with a -10% Penalty until quest is over and then void it. You want to stay your buddies alive? Then take care for them and Keep them alive. That´s a reward. People die in the beginning as noob and People die later when pro. This would be the only "team-Bonus" i see at all.

Bravery Bonus:
Another "I´m-so-good-so-i-deserve-it" Bonus that´s not neccessary. Reward 1st time Bonus and take difficulty into consideration. Once a quest was done on high(est) difficulty, No quest even on a lower difficulty should break your streak, just have it paused or uncounted.

Most of These boni in my eyes seem to be just for the reason to be rewarded higher for lesser playing and faster leveling. And the fact that "But we have no time".

[Requiro]

(...)

Quality of Life > Bragging Number ---- ever day of the week.

This ^

IDK: Why Devs care about small amount of players, if they can made HUGE improvement to game for majority? (and possible new customers)

Why in MMO game there is no bonus at all for Grouping? Are Devs try to made it Solo campaign game, without campaign?

[kain741]

I respectfully disagree with this conclusion. I believe it is erroneous and based on nothing but forum conjecture.

I'm not saying this is my conclusion, just the conclusion that was arrived at. Sev's entire focus with the overhauling XP was driven on ways to get people to group together which leads one to deduce that they see this as a reason people aren't grouping together. Personally I post my lfm and go...it does not affect or bother me if someone joins or not.
I don't care if they scrap the BB system in favor of a new one or not. I can keep streaking or I can adapt to a new way...my only focus is I still get the same net XP that I get now. Further, it would be convenient if everything was streamlined behind the scenes so i don't have to wait for puggers to run the the HoH to turn their streak back on while I complete the quest.

[lyrecono]

then give norm/hard/elite the same exp as elite and raise the droprate for elite (incentive for tr's)

problems solved

though i might be oversimplifying things

[Qhualor]

then give norm/hard/elite the same exp as elite and raise the droprate for elite (incentive for tr's)

problems solved

though i might be oversimplifying things

How would that solve the problem when elite is still the default difficulty and the difficulties are not changing?

[nibel]

Why would it not address the issue correctly?
There is no difference whether I get:
• 50% for BB and 80% for first time elite
• or I get 130% for first time elite
The motivation is still there to run through one time and break the monotony of e/e/e/e/e/e/e/h/n

There is more bonus than those two. You actually have:

• 80% bonus for running Elite for the first time ever
• 20% bonus for running the quest for the first time ever, on Elite (regardless of bravery)
• 10-50% bonus for Bravery
• 25-50% bonus for running the quest for the first time (Tome of Experience, it diminishes value on next runs)
• 20% bonus for daily run

Keeping an elite streak on heroics is +220% XP right off the bat if you have a greater tome of learning. Not 130%. Even without the tome, it is still +170%.

If you need to move bravery to other bonus, it should not be moved to the 80% first time elite bonus. It should be moved to the 20% First time running the quest, on elite. This prevents people from getting the bravery bonus by running N/H/E, and prevents people from getting it twice by running E/H.

On the other hand, if they get rid of this bravery bonus at all, I think elite opening should be removed from Premium TR 2+, and keep it as a VIP perk only.

[davmuzl]

There is more bonus than those two. You actually have:

• 80% bonus for running Elite for the first time ever
• 20% bonus for running the quest for the first time ever, on Elite (regardless of bravery)
• 10-50% bonus for Bravery
• 25-50% bonus for running the quest for the first time (Tome of Experience, it diminishes value on next runs)
• 20% bonus for daily run

Keeping an elite streak on heroics is +220% XP right off the bat if you have a greater tome of learning. Not 130%. Even without the tome, it is still +170%.

If you need to move bravery to other bonus, it should not be moved to the 80% first time elite bonus. It should be moved to the 20% First time running the quest, on elite. This prevents people from getting the bravery bonus by running N/H/E, and prevents people from getting it twice by running E/H.

On the other hand, if they get rid of this bravery bonus at all, I think elite opening should be removed from Premium TR 2+, and keep it as a VIP perk only.

Can you please look over this post again? I found it very confusing when I read it the first time and it still is misleading.

20% bonus for running the quest for the first time ever, on Elite (regardless of bravery)
This is what's called bravery bonus

10-50% bonus for Bravery
This is the bravery streak

What is your 220% or 170% bonus comparing to?
Is it comparing to running the same quest again right after the first run is finished? This would mean that you have to at least substract 10-20% from the tome bonus, because they still apply after the first run. I'm also not sure if the 20% bonus actually applies when you run a quest for the first time.

In the end what matters in this discussion should be the up to 70% bonus xp you get for keeping the elite streak. The first time elite bonus, the tome bonus and if it applies the daily bonus don't actually have something to do with the bravery bonus. The difference of getting tome and daily bonus on another difficulty is very minor and the elite bonus can still be aquired later on.

What's actually interesting are the 50% from the streak bonus. With the NPC solution this is in the same category as the bravery bonus, so the idea is that those 50% might aswell be added to the 20% for elite on the first run. Spreading it across other first time bonuses doesn't make sense at all.

Btw I still think the reducing the streak bonus by 1 stack each time you don't run a quest on the required difficulty is the best solution.

[Faltout]

On the other hand, if they get rid of this bravery bonus at all, I think elite opening should be removed from Premium TR 2+, and keep it as a VIP perk only.

That would make almost every premium player leave the game, 1% of them becoming VIP and 1% of them not caring. Elite is still a difficulty you want to run to be challenged and to gain favor points. Enforcing 2x grind runs of the same quest to run elite is not gonna make things prettier.

[S3R3N1T7]

you realy want kill ddo ????

it's mmo and now ddo is small realy small comunity.

we have loose lot of player with champion implementation and you want continu are you sur you want this

now i'm a casual player because champion i do only raide with friend when they beg me help them


if you remove elite option for other player (no vip) this time i leave and 90% of my guild and i garanty we have many vip who leave ddo too because they want play with me and friend guildy and lfm is dying.


i congrat you for propose the most stupide idear of this forum hope that wil never arrive because i like ddo and have loose many time in ddo for fun but now with champion it was not fun for caster player and for player who don't do prr build optimise

this game loose fun and become only a maximise toon mode with implementation for do happy small part of ddo player but the other player is silencious and leave or play less

sorry for my english i'm not english natif

[Xionanx]

Please explain to me how any of these proposals really help grouping? Why will I suddenly stop running in the most advantageous way just because I can suspend my streak? I can see that it might help raiding slightly, but all adding to the first time bonuses does is change the level a quest is run at or the order of quest running.

The problem with grouping is that there are a very limited number of playing the game that want to group with you. Ever since I started the game, there have been guild only runners, solo only runners, puggers, and players who were a combination of all 3.

When I started playing, there were almost always multiple instances of the Marketplace and Harbor during US prime time on Thelanis. Also, you didn't have superpowered builds that BYOH'd at no cost. Changing the XP structure of the game won't bring those days back.

I haven't seen a solution that fixes having people to group with, other then the one I proposed a long time ago in this thread.. removing level limits.

If:
Players can only enter quests that are their level +5
Players can enter any quest that is under their level
Everyone Gets FULL XP - NO PENALTIES FOR OVER LEVEL OR POWER LEVEL

Grouping problem solved. (though I wouldn't hurt to implement other changes, but at least my suggestion makes the number of people you CAN group with about 5x as large)

[Silverleafeon]

Hi DDO Devs,


Why did Cloey leave the game?

First, who is Cloey?

Not entire certain of my facts, but first uber completionist on Khyber, third uber completionist in DDO.

She loved challenging herself and challenging others.

Loving everything with bravery and putting up an LMF along with some tag alongs and challenging the game.

If we did it nice, we should try it faster, if someone whined they got booted. If someone picked on her, they got booted.

It was not enough to do the first giant into Madstone effectively, the plan would be split up and tackle all three giants at the same time.

She was like Xzel, a great player who could dominate a quest, not shirking but taking the worst assignments.

After she gained uber completionist, she kept on playing to get a friend of hers to uber completionist. She worked on a second project.

At one point, she told me, "I don't like Epics."

But when the Iconics came out, she did everyone of them, using Bravery Bonus right thru to 28, challenging the entire CitW chain, Druid's Deep, Eveningstar, etc...

Then she ran out of lives to use Bravery, did some alternating lives but lost interest in the game.

"Why?"

I guess its a complex question and time is probably part of the answer. We might even see her come back someday as we have others.

But I know her thrill was pushing speed bravery from the moment we logged on and hit Steathly to the moment we did a round of explorers in the Vale. It was the challenge of how fast and dangerous we could live.

Fawn died more on lives with her but learned so much. It was fun, it was a challenge.

If a noob could find the quest, and try to contribute and did not annoy pike, they could ride the wave for as long as they were logged on.



Now in a game where players come to forums and say "The game is too easy!" shouldn't we think twice about erasing bravery.


Instead of breaking the challengers crowd, lets come up with something for the newcomer?



Newcomer bonus ~ if your toon is a first life toon, then your XP while doing normal is increased?
Hmm...does not satisfy but maybe brainstorm it out.



Cheers,
Silver


PS If there no way to restore Bravery after an Epic Reincarnate? That may have been a factor.

PS2 Some of the whiners on the boards about "The game is too easy?" are imhowcbw simply putting down others to make themselves look better. But icbw...

PS3 Gamers tend to be a bit shy, if one is confident about questing and charges forward with whatever is available then the lfms do fill often enough, in fact sometimes those full lfms stay full for long times hours and hours.

PS4 Obviously if you game on Wayfinder, you learn to like your hires and and very happy to dual quests..

PS5 Not trying to offend, but be careful about big changes that destroy...

[Silverleafeon]

Uurlock misses the 3000+ elite/hard streak he had when it accidentally was destroyed by a helpful GM autocompleting a broken quest.

A moment of silence please, honoring all those lost bravery streaks....

Sev has stated 'Sam' will be in the Eberron Hall of Heros and on the guild ships by the amenity buff bar button.

Nods happily.

How many locations are more than 2 loading screens from hence.

Hey maybe we can get teleport spell to go to hall of heroes?

I like the visible to other players. But I think I will be using a post it note (green or red) on my monitor. :P

Lolol, not a bad idea....

LOVE the 10' tall hat... and the dragon..

Hey, if we need a new NPC, give him/her some style...

[Silverleafeon]

then give norm/hard/elite the same exp as elite and raise the droprate for elite (incentive for tr's)

problems solved

though i might be oversimplifying things

I could go for some sort of First Life Less Difficult type bonus system.

First Life ~ First Time Normal XP is +X%

Second Life ~ First Time Hard Xp is +Y%

[Tscheuss]

.
.
.
PS5 Not trying to offend, but be careful about big changes that destroy...

PS5 not due until 2018.

[Silverleafeon]

On the other hand, if they get rid of this bravery bonus at all, I think elite opening should be removed from Premium TR 2+, and keep it as a VIP perk only.

/not signed for getting rid of bravery

/not signed for eliminating Premium features

/signed for newcomer bonuses on normal

/signed for more VIP bonuses

/signed for "Bonus Days ~ +X% per players over Z while grouping in raids and quest where 5<X<10 ; also VIP gain +Y% while grouping in raids and quests where 2<Y<4

/signed for some sort of increase in XP systems such as sentient weapons, +1 hp/sp per million overflow system, new demi-god reincarnation, commoner class system, increasing ED levels to 10, or whatever...

[Silverleafeon]

PS5 not due until 2018.

Good, time to buy some land in Gianthold and build a fallout shelter...

[FranOhmsford]

Hi DDO Devs,


Why did Cloey leave the game?

First, who is Cloey?

Not entire certain of my facts, but first uber completionist on Khyber, third uber completionist in DDO.

She loved challenging herself and challenging others.

Loving everything with bravery and putting up an LMF along with some tag alongs and challenging the game.

If we did it nice, we should try it faster, if someone whined they got booted. If someone picked on her, they got booted.

It was not enough to do the first giant into Madstone effectively, the plan would be split up and tackle all three giants at the same time.

She was like Xzel, a great player who could dominate a quest, not shirking but taking the worst assignments.

After she gained uber completionist, she kept on playing to get a friend of hers to uber completionist. She worked on a second project.

At one point, she told me, "I don't like Epics."

But when the Iconics came out, she did everyone of them, using Bravery Bonus right thru to 28, challenging the entire CitW chain, Druid's Deep, Eveningstar, etc...

Then she ran out of lives to use Bravery, did some alternating lives but lost interest in the game.

"Why?"

I guess its a complex question and time is probably part of the answer. We might even see her come back someday as we have others.

But I know her thrill was pushing speed bravery from the moment we logged on and hit Steathly to the moment we did a round of explorers in the Vale. It was the challenge of how fast and dangerous we could live.

Fawn died more on lives with her but learned so much. It was fun, it was a challenge.

If a noob could find the quest, and try to contribute and did not annoy pike, they could ride the wave for as long as they were logged on.

Assuming Cloey is an example and not a real person I can tell you right now why she left the game:

She was simply too good at it!

She had completed everything available in game to complete and it was time to move on!

And honestly this:

If we did it nice, we should try it faster, if someone whined they got booted. If someone picked on her, they got booted.

is a bit rich!

So it's ok for her to pick on others but not for them to pick on her?

Yes BOTH are wrong!

That player would have very quickly made my DNG list!

I've run with many players like that and it's not conducive to having a good time!


No-one has the right to force others into situations they're not ready for or comfortable with!

[Tscheuss]

Good, time to buy some land in Gianthold and build a fallout shelter...

Buy?

We don't buy land in Gianthold; we clear out one of the existing lairs and make it our own!

(like the exclamation point? I stole it from Fra*)

[Silverleafeon]

A lot of players like tracking the bravery streak count so we wouldn't want to remove it entirely.

Sev~

True story just now.


At level cap, just got done hanging out with a group doing 5 star Evening star challenges.

To get to level cap, leader wants to do some EH Gianthold.

We start with Feast or Famine.

The quest will break my elite steak as I have not done it this life 107. Should I stay in the group and toss my elite streak out? Or should I quit group?

Personally, going to pick up sticks after yesterday's thunderstorm, waiting for it to cool off so Mom come join me together....so yes, bye bye elite streak...

Would be nice if I could simply turn off Elite Bravery and use this to pick up Hard Streak!

[Silverleafeon]

Suppression Sam ~ new options for suppression requests

• Suppress any quests/raids for counting towards Elite Bravery
  
  
• Suppress any quests/raids for counting towards Elite and Hard Bravery
  
  
• Suppress any quests/raids for counting towards being First Time Run