Nerf SWF's 2x stat mod to damage down to 1.5x

[Connman]

HOW? how does a character doing MORE damage then what the word may say on the screen hurt anyone? (note, I doubt that it is happening mind you) but really explain to me how doing more damage then you expect to do is hurting someone?

Hmmmm... but wait look here, you prefer THF, okay fair enough except how can someone doing more damage then listed in SWF hurt or impact you.... See I could understand your claims if this alleged glitch was in some way lessening the damage that THF did, That would be a problem right?

But that's not what is being alleged here is it?

So how, and I really mean HOW is it going to hurt anyone, or anyone's game if someone using SWF is doing more damage?

Unless this is a question of ego, in the case where some one gets upset that their personal favorite fighting style might, just might not be the uber variant of fighting in DDO. In which case that type of person can only be happy if they know other players can't match them. See in that case I could see where SWF doing more damage could hurt something, it would most likely be hurting that type of person in their Epeen.

I think you might be taking this a bit personal, it hurts people that pass on something because it is better than it is listed. It isn't about TWF vs SWF vs Epeen 1 vs Epeen 2. It is about lets make sure things do what they say. Lets try to keep things consistent. Either way nobody is truly harmed by any of this, unless they are easily agitated and have a weak heart.

Sev is the one who is probably put out the most, getting yelled at for saying yup I fixed that, then turns out forgot to hit save or something.

[unbongwah]

I had to find out by testing that the doublestrike from shield mastery feats works on orbs as well (and that you can use orbs when SWF).

FYI, this was a bug / exploit which got fixed in U24: "Shield Mastery and Improved Shield Mastery no longer function with Orbs."

I would love to roll a purple dragon knight paladin with Know the Angles. But whether that can be used together with divine might

Div Might and Know the Angles are anti-requisites; you can't take both.

[jaggyjag]

I think you might be taking this a bit personal, it hurts people that pass on something because it is better than it is listed. It isn't about TWF vs SWF vs Epeen 1 vs Epeen 2. It is about lets make sure things do what they say. Lets try to keep things consistent. Either way nobody is truly harmed by any of this, unless they are easily agitated and have a weak heart.

Sev is the one who is probably put out the most, getting yelled at for saying yup I fixed that, then turns out forgot to hit save or something.

No, not personal for me. I don't play SWF toons. But I do find the transparent attempt by others who prefer other fighting styles to get SWF nerfed offensive.

And please explain how "better than it is listed" is hurting anyone who takes it, or who doesn't. And definitely explain how the person "that pass on something" are being hurt, they can always go back and take it if they want, it not like it is a P2W issue, like a class, race, or epic destinies that a player would have to pay for or be VIP to use.

Please, lets stop pretending and acknowledge this thread for what it is, people who prefer THF, want to be sure that SWF are not as powerful. That's all this is, otherwise just report it and look for it in the know issues. This is just a paranoid leftover of the segment of the player base who insisted after SWF came out that it be nerfed, Epeen fight plan and simple.

[Grailhawk]

Div Might and Know the Angles are anti-requisites; you can't take both.

I haven't tried since before U24 but before that you could.

[Krelar]

Now, as I have said before, I doubt this is happening.

Did you miss the 2 other people, besides the OP, that confirmed this via testing? One of them even provided a screenshot of the combat log.

[mikarddo]

FYI, this was a bug / exploit which got fixed in U24: "Shield Mastery and Improved Shield Mastery no longer function with Orbs."

Div Might and Know the Angles are anti-requisites; you can't take both.

I havent tested this but I heard someone claim you could take both - I believe he said something about taking them in a specific order though. Mind, this is hearsay.

[jaggyjag]

Did you miss the 2 other people, besides the OP, that confirmed this via testing? One of them even provided a screenshot of the combat log.

Great you seem to be know what's what!

So please tell me how this is hurting anyone if it is happening, no one else seems to be able to explain it other then hint that their preferred fighting styles ego's being bruised. Smart guy like you should be able to explain how characters being able to do extra damage is hurting those players.

[Grailhawk]

Hey I'm sorry you couldn't take the high road, I have had to report you for insulting me again. Hopefully the infraction report will explain it to you so you can avoid doing it again in the future.

Saying I don't "understand" is just your way of dealing with the fact that I don't agree.

So, now tell us all, how if SWF could somehow in some mythical way do 100% better then the other styles would it hurt you or anyone else? you can always take it if you want to. It's not like Mobs are using it, is it? and if you don't take it but one of your teammates takes SWF how is that hurting you or the team? How is it taking anything away from you or other players?

If it was lowering your damage or nerfing your hitpoints, or lagging the game? okay that would be hurting someone, but what you and your THF cult members have voiced so far?

Nadda.

So you like a game with out choices, when SWF is the best choice in every situation there is no other choice that is bad design and that's a boring game which is clearly something you don't understand. LOL

[mikarddo]

No, not personal for me. I don't play SWF toons. But I do find the transparent attempt by others who prefer other fighting styles to get SWF nerfed offensive.

And please explain how "better than it is listed" is hurting anyone who takes it, or who doesn't. And definitely explain how the person "that pass on something" are being hurt, they can always go back and take it if they want, it not like it is a P2W issue, like a class, race, or epic destinies that a player would have to pay for or be VIP to use.

Please, lets stop pretending and acknowledge this thread for what it is, people who prefer THF, want to be sure that SWF are not as powerful. That's all this is, otherwise just report it and look for it in the know issues. This is just a paranoid leftover of the segment of the player base who insisted after SWF came out that it be nerfed, Epeen fight plan and simple.

By your argument Energy Burst could be made to do 10 times the damage and its cool down reduced to 1 sec - and noone should mind because "it does not hurt them". You method of reasoning is completely flawed as far as I am concerned and the offensive manner you present it in is unfortunate.

I dont play melee at all. I dont terribly care if SWF i 2x or 1.5. But I do care that descriptions fit the actual effect and I certainly also care that there is a minimum of balance - even if this means "nerfs" somethings.

[Connman]

No, not personal for me. I don't play SWF toons. But I do find the transparent attempt by others who prefer other fighting styles to get SWF nerfed offensive.

And please explain how "better than it is listed" is hurting anyone who takes it, or who doesn't. And definitely explain how the person "that pass on something" are being hurt, they can always go back and take it if they want, it not like it is a P2W issue, like a class, race, or epic destinies that a player would have to pay for or be VIP to use.

Please, lets stop pretending and acknowledge this thread for what it is, people who prefer THF, want to be sure that SWF are not as powerful. That's all this is, otherwise just report it and look for it in the know issues. This is just a paranoid leftover of the segment of the player base who insisted after SWF came out that it be nerfed, Epeen fight plan and simple.

I think you are quoting the wrong person in this thread, I wonder if you have even read my posts or confused me for someone else. I, me, that is the person posting this in fact passed on SWF when I did my bard life because of the change. I might have tried it out if I had known it was still 2.0 times. But that is irrelevant because I, like a minority of the player base, READ THE FORUMS. So I know the real score on things, sometimes, lol.

as for "they can always go back and take it if they want" sure if you don't mind doing 5 feat changes. If you even knew about it. So you could easily end up with a better build from the start, if only the tool tip was correct. And as far as this nonsense "This is just a paranoid leftover of the segment of the player base who insisted after SWF came out that it be nerfed" Maybe them but not me make it 5.0 times for all I care, because IT DOESN'T EFFECT ME, unless the tool tip is incorect, because I actually read them.

[Krelar]

Great you seem to be know what's what!

So please tell me how this is hurting anyone if it is happening, no one else seems to be able to explain it other then hint that their preferred fighting styles ego's being bruised. Smart guy like you should be able to explain how characters being able to do extra damage is hurting those players.

Can you point to where I've ever claimed it does?


As far as an attempt at an answer, it depends how much extra damage it ends up being. If it's so much that a style becomes indisputably better than others, then everyone will gravitate towards that style, which is bad for game diversity. I have no idea if this is the case currently or not. I also think that it is bad when things in game don't actually do what they say, so no matter what something needs to be changed, either the damage or the description.

Full disclosure: my main is currently a SWF, last life he was a THF, the 2 lives before that were again SWF and THF. Personally I feel like my single target DPS is better SWF and my AOE DPS is better THF. I like both styles.

[Highlander]

Calm down.

Just read that first sentence of his post again.

People making builds based on feat or enhancement descriptions assume those descriptions are correct, when you look at something and go "meh" because it looks lackluster but it's better ingame, you're hurting people's ability to make accurate build decisions.

He's not screaming "NERF!".. I mean, he actually said "change the description back or change the damage to fit the description".

:-)
Did you read. The thread title mate? :-)

[Keladon]

:-)
Did you read. The thread title mate? :-)

Different poster mate. Did you read the quote chain?

[Rull]

I haven't tried since before U24 but before that you could.

Thanks, this perfectly illustrates my point. Whenever I first read it, my first thought was not how I could use it, but that I would need to test to see if it really didn't work together.
Over the year I have changed my mindset from "Before I actually TR into this toon I made on paper I need to test all the abilities out myself first" to "After each update I need to test all those abilities to see what they actually do, before even being able to think about builds".

And it's tiresome. I haven't bothered with barbarian yet because I don't know what those abilities do, and I really don't believe the descriptions. For the epic destinies I did it, I took them one by one to find out what they do. For bard I did the same. But it's become just too much effort; I'll pass on this pass.

[Postumus]

If Rull is correct, I say leave it alone. I am enjoying playing my pure Bard SWF Swashbuckler.

I agree. It isn't game breaking and there are far more important things not working as originally intended that need attention.

Getting worked up over a couple of extra points of damage? Meh. Far better things to concentrate on.

[Highlander]

Different poster mate. Did you read the quote chain?

Alas no, I must have dozed off part way thru. Old age, short attention span and all that. :-/
Apologies for misinterpreting the response.

[Highlander]

I agree. It isn't game breaking and there are far more important things not working as originally intended that need attention.

Getting worked up over a couple of extra points of damage? Meh. Far better things to concentrate on.

Yes but it will be a priority fix over all the other non-working features now.
Because that's how we roll round here.....

I do wonder if they'll just change the text and leave the effect like they do with the bugs where the effect is than the text?

[Cordovan]

Single Weapon Fighting feats have been granting too much bonus damage based on ability score. For Update 24 Patch 1, this will be corrected to match the text (up to +50% damage, the same as Two-Handed Fighting.)

[Kamode_Corebasher]

Single Weapon Fighting feats have been granting too much bonus damage based on ability score. For Update 24 Patch 1, this will be corrected to match the text (up to +50% damage, the same as Two-Handed Fighting.)

Why did you adjust? The discussion regarding power differences between THF and SWF came down to THF'ing having more than just the 50% damage...it has glancing blows and works well with Cleaves. To have SWF compete (as SWF is typically used for single target fighting, and cleaves really slow down the attack animation so reduces dmg, so typically not used), the initial decision was to give it the 2x stat mod. <--if I remember right.

[Impaqt]

Why did you adjust? The discussion regarding power differences between THF and SWF came down to THF'ing having more than just the 50% damage...it has glancing blows and works well with Cleaves. To have SWF compete (as SWF is typically used for single target fighting, and cleaves really slow down the attack animation so reduces dmg, so typically not used), the initial decision was to give it the 2x stat mod. <--if I remember right.

my SWF toon use cleaves all the time. saying one fighting style is "typically" used for single vs. multi targets doesnt make sense. THe quests and mobs dont change based on what fighting style my character uses.

Glancing blows are hardly important.

SWF also provides attack speed and melee power. These are far more important and demonstrative than better glancing blows.