Vip - rip

[Braegan]

Umm...Not quite Braegan - See below:



You started off with abrasive sarcasm then proceeded to talk about spells that a newbie {or a returning player who'd only ever played low level quests before} wouldn't even consider taking!


In Later posts where you showed that YOU could complete that quest you ignored stuff the OP had stated in his rant like that:
1) He was a Wiz/Rogue at Lvl 1 - i.e. almost guaranteed to be a Rogue {only the greenest of the green wouldn't take Rog at Lvl 1!}.
2) You then took SWF when you swapped to a lvl 1 Rogue - The Guy's playing a Wiz/Rogue - No way would his 1st feat be a Melee feat!



Now I've had have issues with Cannith Crystal on 2nd & 3rd life 1st lvl Rogues and Clerics/Souls BEFORE Champions - This quest causes different problems for players...Mainly that of the Crystal getting one-shot {or two-shot if you're lucky} far too often.
Mobs will ignore you and go straight for the crystal even if you're standing with your back against it and you've hit them!
I'm not sure how Bluff...which turns mobs AWAY from you is a good idea here and it seems counter-intuitive to use a skill that gives a higher chance of the mobs targeting the crystal!

With Champions all these issues are magnified!



Now - I'm not saying the OP is in the right either BUT that you most certainly did not start out helpful and inquisitive!


The guy who told the OP about using the Barb hire for this quest was HELPFUL!

And the OP was right about that being counter-intuitive as for 90% of the game the Cleric hire is by far the best choice {the other 10% being when you absolutely need a trapper!}.
BUT
For Cannith Crystal on a Character with low {or no} DPS you need a Hire with said DPS and that's not Dryad!


P.S. If you're just starting out on a new character then you have two choices:
1) Run Storehouse's Secret and possibly Heyton's Rest BEFORE Cannith Crystal {You could also go to Stormreach Harbour and run the solo quests and some Cerulean Hills Slayer to get you to Lvl 2 before going back to Korthos.
or
2) Run the Crystal FIRST on NORMAL or HARD as you won't have a streak to break and can come back to Crystal later for the extra 2-4 Favour!

As I stated more than a few times, the title and the op was not a post asking for help. It was a whinny, foot stomping down, "I'm gonna quit, because X," type of thread. I felt I responded appropriately.

I opened with some sarcasm, clearly labeled it as such, and then in the same post asked some questions to try and see what the problem really was since the op was unclear with details. That was the inquisitive part...me asking questions.

Spells that a newbie or returning player wouldn't consider taking...well that's why I asked. Those are often overlooked and under used spells that are very effective.
1) I never saw mention of his level, it may have been added during edits. So he could have been anywhere from level 1-3. I usually leave korthos as a level 3 on legend lives. So as I read it I understood him to be a 1/1. That's why I first did it with a wizzy, than after more info was added I did it as a rogue.
2) Yes I took SWF. As I said I could've taken another feat that would've made it easier but I felt there would be some nit picking about it. Guess there still is. And it depends, if he was making a melee wizard (completely viable now with harper - see Andoris thread Shadovar Infiltrator), than yes he would take a melee feat at level one rog, he certainly isn't taking a meta feat.

Bluff, again one of those underused, really useful things. Yes it turns mobs away, giving you sneak attack. That extra boost to dps slaughtered them before they could do anything.

Ok so I guess I should've said...

I started out jokingly sarcastic, then helpful via inquisitive responses in order to garner more information so that I could possibly be helpful to a whiny doom post.


Happy?

Or I'm a big jerk, whatever.

[FranOhmsford]

Fran, we are talking about Korthos Village quests here, not trying to solo Proof is in the Poison. These are quests that are easier than the average quest at the same difficulty, which includes things like the DCs needed for social skills (and for traps, for that matter).

The problem is that you are trying to extrapolate the use of hires for later levels back to a starter environment, and apply your learned logic (that Clerics are pretty much the best choice of hire in all cases) to a starter environment with players that won't know that Clerics will be the best choice in almost all cases later.

It is very useful for ridding aggro from you. You should try it in low level quests sometimes.

Due to monster CR bloat as the quests increase in difficulty - not in those first three quests in Korthos Village.

Not with the level 1 hires. And there is nothing in the game recommending that you get a Cleric hire over the others in Korthos Village.

Indeed, but no-one has ever suggested they would be useful (I find them to be atrocious at all levels, personally). There are exactly 4 hirelings to choose from in Korthos Village, a new player should probably try all 4 and see for themselves what works and what doesn't.

Not in very low level quests in Korthos Village (are you seeing the pattern yet?). When you are typically getting hit for 2-3HP each time, the numerous Starter CLW potions are more than enough for the 4 starter quests, even on Elite.

OK:

1) Only the THFighting Hires can even come close to the weakest Player's DPS - It's far better to do the DPS yourself while a Cleric Hire looks after you than to grab a Melee Hire!
This doesn't work in C-Crystal though as while you're DPSing the mobs will sneak past you and attack the Crystal - This is why I stated that C-Crystal is unlike other quests!
Also - Even parking a hireling on top of the Crystal they will aggro on anyone anywhere in the room which means that you are the one who has to guard it!

2) Getting hit for 2-3hp? If you have 50 PRR probably but how many newbie Rogues or Wizards have 50 PRR?

3) Starter CLW pots are nowhere near as numerous as they've been made out to be by people in this thread - Picking up everyone that drops I doubt you'd see more than 20 total in all of Korthos {not counting the few that drop in MP itself!}.

4) When I started playing DDO back in 2010 I tried out the other 3 Hires IN KORTHOS!
Dryad was then and is now easily the best choice for everything except C-Crystal!

The only quest in this game that I've not run even once is Brothers of the Forge - The only Raids I've never run are Deathwyrm and FoTP!
I've used 90% or more of all Hirelings in this game during that time {some only once or twice obviously!} and 100% of the Cleric and FvS hires!
There are some Arcane hires that are of use - Basically the ones with GH or the WF Healers - Barrage {Lvl 13 Wiz} is by far the best of them because he has literally all 4 of the most popular abilities on his bar - Haste, Firewall, Recon, GH!

In Korthos Village, yes indeed. You can pass an Intim check on Cannith Crystal Elite on a total roll of 10 (which is the same for Bluff and Diplomacy). That's a 50% chance on your almost-entirely-dumped Cha Rogue, and a 40% chance even on a Cha dumped Half-Orc. If you have maxed Int (as a Wiz/Rogue will have), you may well even have put a few points into Intimidate or Diplomacy (Int 18 gives 52 skill points for a Human Rogue, so lots of choice to maximise on that first level).

In any case, Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate are all skills based on Cha. Bluff worked well for me as I had put 4 points into it, so it had a 75% chance of succeeding. I find Bluff a useful skill generally if you have spare points and space for a bluff item, as the turn animation disrupts many nasty actions an enemy can take, so is e.g. great for Beholders (I even take it as a Sorcerer if I can, just because).

I'm afraid that I don't consider anything under 100% pass rate to be of even minor viability when talking about skills that you basically need to work on every occasion!

You wouldn't accept a 50% chance on Disable Device would you?


And even with 52 Skill Points let's look at what a 1st Lvl Wiz/Rogue would actually take:

Concentration
Spellcraft
Repair if Warforged
Disable
Search
Spot
OL
Hide
MS
Jump {I find 5 to be the perfect number for Jump - Str and Buffs will get you the rest of the way}.
UMD
Balance
Bluff
1 point in Tumble

That's 53 right there IF you're WF or want Repair anyway
52 if you drop Jump back to 3
Oh and you said Human so a WF would have 4 less points to spend too! {Though possibly no need for UMD.}

Adding in Intim and Diplo = Really?


Finally - I never said Bluff was bad!
I said that Diplo was! - In fact I can't quite get my head round why ANYONE would take Diplo over Bluff?

[Lallajulia]

I'm a returner. You'll easily recognize me as my toon actually is named "Returner" (on Wayfinder, 1st life to get in again, Rogue/Wiz planned) and performing as bad as you guys at Turbine probably bet on?! When I left, quests on Khorthos were easy, almost all even on Elite, except the one where to keep the npc alive. All fine, but now I fail at the "defeat the chrystal" quest all the time (lol? w.t.f.?), because on every attempt two champions spawn and kill me and my hire with one hit instantly. I do not know what the deeper sense of this gameplay design decision was? If I was Turbine, I'd probably say: well, we know we made this game - but we don't want you to be vip (because DDO is dead) - and if you dare anyway, we simply kill you. Is this your very intention? If not, then this clearly is a bug (I wonder why it not had been mentioned already) that has to be removed now.

Edit:
I mean, what is the incentive nowadays to become a VIP? Getting all the content but getting ripped in the first elite quest? No, definitely not. Please, take a little more time to think about your decisions - or explain the hyper-10-times-reincarnated-it's-still-a-challenge difficulty increase! Or should I move DDO directly into the desktop-basket, should I uninstall, is this your intention? I want an answer, please.

because of such whines, they reaped champions. screwed them. what was you thinking go in on 1st! level toon with that useless hire ALONE on elite, what is level3 quest? you got nailed! that was right thing what happened there. what is wrong thing, if ANY, ANY toon can come in and beat hardes difficulty even three levels above. THAT is wrong, but what happened with you in crystal quest was right.

[FranOhmsford]

As I stated more than a few times, the title and the op was not a post asking for help. It was a whinny, foot stomping down, "I'm gonna quit, because X," type of thread. I felt I responded appropriately.

I opened with some sarcasm, clearly labeled it as such, and then in the same post asked some questions to try and see what the problem really was since the op was unclear with details. That was the inquisitive part...me asking questions.

It wasn't your earlier posts I was having a go at False - It was your statement that you'd only replied to the OP in kind when it was you not he who started the slanging match!

I used your earlier posts to demonstrate why this was blatantly untrue!

Ok so I guess I should've said...

I started out jokingly sarcastic, then helpful via inquisitive responses in order to garner more information so that I could possibly be helpful to a whiny doom post.


Happy?

Or I'm a big jerk, whatever.

Neither!

A newbie {or in this case a returning player not au fait with today's game} comes to the forums to rant it's probably not a good idea to go off on them as this is more rather than less likely to cause them to quit the game entirely!

And you're not the other thing either - Though in this case you might well realise later on that you went too far.


P.S. Stating that something is Sarcasm in no way removes the sting from it! {I'm not sure I've ever seen Sarcasm used other than to belittle!}
P.P.S. There was nothing light about your questions in that first post either - They were more like bullet points!

[Braegan]

It wasn't your earlier posts I was having a go at False - It was your statement that you'd only replied to the OP in kind when it was you not he who started the slanging match!

I used your earlier posts to demonstrate why this was blatantly untrue!



Neither!

A newbie {or in this case a returning player not au fait with today's game} comes to the forums to rant it's probably not a good idea to go off on them as this is more rather than less likely to cause them to quit the game entirely!

And you're not the other thing either - Though in this case you might well realise later on that you went too far.


P.S. Stating that something is Sarcasm in no way removes the sting from it! {I'm not sure I've ever seen Sarcasm used other than to belittle!}
P.P.S. There was nothing light about your questions in that first post either - They were more like bullet points!

I'm still not seeing it.

If it was a new or returning player posting hey having trouble, please help, etc. I would've have even been close to the tone I posted in. The op was a whine fest that threatened turbine to change or he'd quit the game and his sub. Sorry, I don't take temper tantrums and threats deserving of any respectful tones. I responded in kind, to the ops tone and subject matter.

Sarcasm is not used so much to belittle someone but moreso to get someone to "laugh it off." Usually hard to identify in text, that is why a lot of folks will include that they are being sarcastic.

I don't understand how bullet points denotes being heavy? Because I was being brief and to the point means I am not being nice? I asked a few simple direct questions to try and understand a vague post.

I know it can be annoying, but think of it like when you call tech support and they ask you if your device is plugged in.

[Chi_Ryu]

Also - Even parking a hireling on top of the Crystal they will aggro on anyone anywhere in the room which means that you are the one who has to guard it!

Indeed; your role is crystal guard.

2) Getting hit for 2-3hp? If you have 50 PRR probably but how many newbie Rogues or Wizards have 50 PRR?

I was hit approximately 10 times, and yet lost on 23HP. On a naked first life Rogue. You do the Maths and see what you get.

3) Starter CLW pots are nowhere near as numerous as they've been made out to be by people in this thread - Picking up everyone that drops I doubt you'd see more than 20 total in all of Korthos {not counting the few that drop in MP itself!}.

CLW does 1d6+3. I'd only need 4 potions to have been back up to full heath in that quest, and you generally get around that number than that in The Shipwrecked Shore and The Grotto, let alone if you do The Storehouse's Secret first.

4) When I started playing DDO back in 2010 I tried out the other 3 Hires IN KORTHOS!
Dryad was then and is now easily the best choice for everything except C-Crystal!

In your opinion, for which I do not agree (and neither does another poster on this thread). Newcomers should form their own opinion on these things, and not take my word - or yours - for granted.

I'm afraid that I don't consider anything under 100% pass rate to be of even minor viability when talking about skills that you basically need to work on every occasion!

Then your expectations vary from mine, but since I completed the quest using that strategy with a non 100% success rate... well.

You wouldn't accept a 50% chance on Disable Device would you?

I'd accept 75% at level one, sure (that would mean a Crit Fail on a 1 only - not ideal, but not a showstopper).

And even with 52 Skill Points let's look at what a 1st Lvl Wiz/Rogue would actually take:

Concentration
Spellcraft

Why would you take cross-class skills when you can max them by level 3 when taking them non-cross class (assuming Wiz taken for levels 2 and 3)?

That's 53 right there IF you're WF or want Repair anyway

45 when dropping the cross-class skills, but I'd also spend a point in Perform to unlock Sonic spellpower, so 46. That leaves 6, even with the wasteful Repair points (you care about Repair scaling by a few percent when you will have Reconstruct by the time it really matters?).

Adding in Intim and Diplo = Really?

Why not? It might help with a few optionals in a couple of quests e.g. Partycrashers and Epic Prove Your Worth, as well as situationally saving your life - hitting Diplo on a Doomsphere that is hell bent on Con draining can help a lot.

Finally - I never said Bluff was bad!
I said that Diplo was!

When, by your own admission, you've never used it. How can you claim it is bad when you've never used it?

[PermaBanned]

How can you claim it is bad when you've never used it?

Sadly, that seems to be forum S.O.P. ^^

[xPhoxhoundx]

TL;DR: Also, please stay on Wayfinder. You're making my head hurt with your ineptitude.

[Artrish]

Or I'm a big jerk, whatever.

This part sounds about the most accurate portion of a reply you have put in the topic. Not willing to admit wrong doing on your part toward someone inexperienced and frustrated shows this to be most certainly the case. The bulk of your efforts to make excuses for acting like a jerk is just the filler in your ego trying to come to terms with it. Learn to lighten up on the inexperienced, as much as your "tech support experience" repeats the same process of asking if they have their pc plugged in, to the caller it is their first initial steps in reaching out to the community and the direction this thread went with it is in no way a welcoming presentation to the poster.

[Braegan]

This part sounds about the most accurate portion of a reply you have put in the topic. Not willing to admit wrong doing on your part toward someone inexperienced and frustrated shows this to be most certainly the case. The bulk of your efforts to make excuses for acting like a jerk is just the filler in your ego trying to come to terms with it. Learn to lighten up on the inexperienced, as much as your "tech support experience" repeats the same process of asking if they have their pc plugged in, to the caller it is their first initial steps in reaching out to the community and the direction this thread went with it is in no way a welcoming presentation to the poster.

Give it a rest.

Starting a thread stamping your foot like a bratty four year old threating to quit the game (again) unless the game changes to meet your expectations should be met with at least the level of attitude I responded with. Act like an adult and get treated like one. Act like a child and expect to get schooled.

[Vooduspyce]

I'm a returner. You'll easily recognize me as my toon actually is named "Returner" (on Wayfinder, 1st life to get in again, Rogue/Wiz planned) and performing as bad as you guys at Turbine probably bet on?! When I left, quests on Khorthos were easy, almost all even on Elite, except the one where to keep the npc alive. All fine, but now I fail at the "defeat the chrystal" quest all the time (lol? w.t.f.?), because on every attempt two champions spawn and kill me and my hire with one hit instantly. I do not know what the deeper sense of this gameplay design decision was? If I was Turbine, I'd probably say: well, we know we made this game - but we don't want you to be vip (because DDO is dead) - and if you dare anyway, we simply kill you. Is this your very intention? If not, then this clearly is a bug (I wonder why it not had been mentioned already) that has to be removed now.

Edit:
I mean, what is the incentive nowadays to become a VIP? Getting all the content but getting ripped in the first elite quest? No, definitely not. Please, take a little more time to think about your decisions - or explain the hyper-10-times-reincarnated-it's-still-a-challenge difficulty increase! Or should I move DDO directly into the desktop-basket, should I uninstall, is this your intention? I want an answer, please.

I recently made a first lifer on another server where I had jack squat. I too could not do it solo elite. So I did it on hard and moved on without any feeling of being ripped off or angry. Some classes can easily do it solo elite. If not then get a group or do it on hard or normal. This is not a big deal. And I'm still VIP

[Dragavon]

It seems like no one of you actually read (ok, maybe read) but could not understand the words.

It's a 1st life char (no reincarnation). I started at the beach. Did the beach quest to Khorthos, no level up 'til now, then entered the "protect the chrystal" quest on Elite (bought the Cleric Hire before) - I enter the instance and after three enemies attacked a champ appears that runs right to the chrystal, destroys it with one hit, then a second champ appears and both destroy me and my hire. Believe it or not. Turbine has to believe - and this simply is frustrating.

This is good. You should not be able to solo elite quest on such a weak character.

[Keladon]

I enter the instance and after three enemies attacked a champ appears that runs right to the chrystal, destroys it with one hit, then a second champ appears and both destroy me and my hire.

This is good. You should not be able to solo elite quest on such a weak character.

Because the crystal is a lot stronger if you're a TR or higher level

[FranOhmsford]

Indeed; your role is crystal guard.

Something I've never disagreed with - I'm simply stating that for people like the OP we should be emphasising the above rather than going straight into attack mode!

I was hit approximately 10 times, and yet lost on 23HP. On a naked first life Rogue. You do the Maths and see what you get.

You were hit 10 times in Cannith Crystal?

I'm sorry but I don't believe you - I doubt I've ever been hit more than half that many times in that quest on ANY character!

CLW does 1d6+3. I'd only need 4 potions to have been back up to full heath in that quest, and you generally get around that number than that in The Shipwrecked Shore and The Grotto, let alone if you do The Storehouse's Secret first.

If you're getting hit as much as you say you were - btw the absolute minimum HP the OP could have had is 28 - then expecting a relative newcomer like the OP to be able to chug pots and still protect the crystal is expecting a bit much.

I've found that chugging pots while in combat is a sure fire way to take yet more damage!

In your opinion, for which I do not agree (and neither does another poster on this thread). Newcomers should form their own opinion on these things, and not take my word - or yours - for granted.

Never said it wasn't my opinion - But you can't have it both ways - You made a statement and I disagreed with that statement and gave my reasons for disagreeing with it. Reasons based on 4 years of experience with Hirelings I may add!

Then your expectations vary from mine, but since I completed the quest using that strategy with a non 100% success rate... well.

So long as you have:
1) A Hireling - ANY Hireling with you
and
2) You guard the crystal and let the hire do the running round
It's virtually impossible to actually fail C-Crystal - It can happen through sheer bad luck and mobs one-shotting the Crystal - I've seen that happen on multiple occasions PRIOR to Champions!
But just go again!

I'd accept 75% at level one, sure (that would mean a Crit Fail on a 1 only - not ideal, but not a showstopper).

I've found that 1s are rolled a heck of a lot in DDO.

Why would you take cross-class skills when you can max them by level 3 when taking them non-cross class (assuming Wiz taken for levels 2 and 3)?

Because I'd still want to keep the Trapping Skills maxed too.

45 when dropping the cross-class skills, but I'd also spend a point in Perform to unlock Sonic spellpower, so 46. That leaves 6, even with the wasteful Repair points (you care about Repair scaling by a few percent when you will have Reconstruct by the time it really matters?).

You're worried about an extra 1 Sonic Spellpower but denigrate taking points in Repair?

Why not? It might help with a few optionals in a couple of quests e.g. Partycrashers and Epic Prove Your Worth, as well as situationally saving your life - hitting Diplo on a Doomsphere that is hell bent on Con draining can help a lot.

The opts in Partycrashers and Prove Your Worth require super high Diplo - A coupla points isn't going to be enough!

As for the Doomsphere - Bluff will do that job too.

I've just taken a look at the Wiki and:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Diplomacy

Several enemy types are immune to Diplomacy, including Undead, Oozes, Vermin, Animals, and Magical Beasts.

So is the Wiki wrong or do Doomspheres not count as Undead?

When, by your own admission, you've never used it. How can you claim it is bad when you've never used it?

I can read the description!

Bluff sheds aggro while at the same time allowing you sneak attack bonuses - I'll say again...Why would anyone who can take either at the same cost take Diplo over Bluff?

[Ayseifn]

Bluff sheds aggro while at the same time allowing you sneak attack bonuses - I'll say again...Why would anyone who can take either at the same cost take Diplo over Bluff?

Diplomacy is an AoE and lasts 50% longer, if you group a lot or use hires and summons diplomacy is much better in my experience.

[lorion612]

I went in there and tested the damage with a lvl 1 rouge, wearing the battleworn chain and no other defensive equipment or abilities. PRR was 17 for a 14.53% reduction.
I entered, started the quest and just stood there until I was knocked unconscious, then checked the combat log.

Got hit with 9 non-crit melee:
3, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 0

Took two critical melee hits: 1 for 1 point, 1 for 3 points

rest were spells:
1 niac's ray (failed save): 8 pts
3 acid splashes: 3, 3, 4
2 cold rays: 2, 2

after unconscious took another 2 point melee attack followed by an 11 pt niac's ray.

So a total of 12 melee attacks (2 crit and 1 against an helpless opponent) caused a total of 18 damage for a 1.5/hit average.
The spells were considerably more dangerous, but other than the niac's were still in the 2-4 range.

[Fallout_Zero]

What the hell is wrong with some people. A fresh of the boat toon with limited knowledge of the game expects to steam roll the hardest of 4 settings then complaining about it.

The elite setting, if you have a group that's an option. If you are knowledgable about the game and want to solo it's an option. You also have the option to choose 3 other difficulties.

What do you expect devs to do? Make DDO on elite soloble for first life toons with no gear and limited knowledge of the game?

[Chi_Ryu]

You were hit 10 times in Cannith Crystal?

As a naked rogue trying to get aggro, yes, I was. AC 11 isn't very good, you see (and this was with no PRR from light armor).

I'm sorry but I don't believe you

I don't care if you believe me or not, it is irrelevant.

If you're getting hit as much as you say you were - btw the absolute minimum HP the OP could have had is 28

Nonesense. Heroic durability gives you a flat 30HP base, and you get 4HP as a level 1 Wizard/Sorcerer. Are you telling me you start the game with -2 CON?

I've found that chugging pots while in combat is a sure fire way to take yet more damage!

The Cannith Crystal has plenty of opportunities to chug without being in combat.

Never said it wasn't my opinion - But you can't have it both ways - You made a statement and I disagreed with that statement and gave my reasons for disagreeing with it. Reasons based on 4 years of experience with Hirelings I may add!

You aren't reading what I wrote. A new player should make up their own opinion on these things. They might actually find out how Bluff and Diplomacy work that way, rather than making false assumptions based on "advice" - especially when given by people who don't actually use the skills and don't really understand how they work.

It's virtually impossible to actually fail C-Crystal - It can happen through sheer bad luck and mobs one-shotting the Crystal - I've seen that happen on multiple occasions PRIOR to Champions!
But just go again!

Not disagreeing with the second part of this, but I will disagree that it is "virtually impossible" to fail it on Elite. I do from time to time, all it takes is a lapse in concentration and an unlucky roll.

I've found that 1s are rolled a heck of a lot in DDO.

I have not noticed such a pattern. People just notice 1s (and 20s) more than any other number.

Because I'd still want to keep the Trapping Skills maxed too.

Which I manage to do easily on a 18/2 Wiz/Rogue with maxed Int, so what is your point here? You are spending the points cross class and getting half the benefit of using it on other things.

You're worried about an extra 1 Sonic Spellpower but denigrate taking points in Repair?

Err, taking one point unlocks Performance stat bonus, Morale, Luck etc. bonuses and items - which on a Sorcerer would be about +65.5 by Level 28 - as opposed to N/A when you don't spend a single point.

That's much more than even your maxed repair. Again, you might like to take time to go back and look at the basics.

The opts in Partycrashers and Prove Your Worth require super high Diplo - A coupla points isn't going to be enough!

My experience shows otherwise. Dismissing the guards = Diplomacy 17, intimidating Malior = Intim 14. Super high values, right?

Make sure you are packing hot-swap items (+7 at those levels) and hitting your heroism pots, wearing the Voice of the Master, your best Cha item, etc.

I've just taken a look at the Wiki and:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Diplomacy

So is the Wiki wrong or do Doomspheres not count as Undead?

Hm, ok bad example - I take that back. That's one mistake I've made in my post, how about you look at the beam in your own eye before worrying about the mote in mine? Beholders certainly work though (and that's my primary use case, as it gives a tiny window away from the antimagic cone if timed right).

I can read the description!

Bluff sheds aggro while at the same time allowing you sneak attack bonuses - I'll say again...Why would anyone who can take either at the same cost take Diplo over Bluff?

You aren't reading correctly. Bluff reduced your rate of threat generation - i.e. your future rate of change of aggro. It does not change your actual aggro one bit. I suggest you revise the basics of DDO before commenting further on these topics.

[Cornholelesticky]

I'm a returner. You'll easily recognize me as my toon actually is named "Returner" (on Wayfinder, 1st life to get in again, Rogue/Wiz planned) and performing as bad as you guys at Turbine probably bet on?! When I left, quests on Khorthos were easy, almost all even on Elite, except the one where to keep the npc alive. All fine, but now I fail at the "defeat the chrystal" quest all the time (lol? w.t.f.?), because on every attempt two champions spawn and kill me and my hire with one hit instantly. I do not know what the deeper sense of this gameplay design decision was? If I was Turbine, I'd probably say: well, we know we made this game - but we don't want you to be vip (because DDO is dead) - and if you dare anyway, we simply kill you. Is this your very intention? If not, then this clearly is a bug (I wonder why it not had been mentioned already) that has to be removed now.

Edit:
I mean, what is the incentive nowadays to become a VIP? Getting all the content but getting ripped in the first elite quest? No, definitely not. Please, take a little more time to think about your decisions - or explain the hyper-10-times-reincarnated-it's-still-a-challenge difficulty increase! Or should I move DDO directly into the desktop-basket, should I uninstall, is this your intention? I want an answer, please.

Then don't become a VIP. Next thread...

[FranOhmsford]

Nonesense. Heroic durability gives you a flat 30HP base, and you get 4HP as a level 1 Wizard/Sorcerer. Are you telling me you start the game with -2 CON?

Note: I stated - The absolute minimum!

As in the OP had as a bare minimum 28 hp - Which with your 23 dmg from 10 hits he'd have survived easily YET the OP has stated that he got One-Shot!

You aren't reading what I wrote. A new player should make up their own opinion on these things. They might actually find out how Bluff and Diplomacy work that way, rather than making false assumptions based on "advice" - especially when given by people who don't actually use the skills and don't really understand how they work.

My assumptions {whether false or not!} were made based on the DESCRIPTIONS in-game and on the Wiki!
NOT
On Advice!

Not disagreeing with the second part of this, but I will disagree that it is "virtually impossible" to fail it on Elite. I do from time to time, all it takes is a lapse in concentration and an unlucky roll.

I figured I wrote that bit badly which is why I added that second part.

So long as luck doesn't enter the equation AND you aren't watching TV or reading a book at the same time as playing the game I still say it's virtually impossible to fail C-Crystal IF you take in a Hire {ANY hire}, stick it on Active and make sure you yourself guard the d@rn Crystal!

I have not noticed such a pattern. People just notice 1s (and 20s) more than any other number.

Well yeah - Obviously!

BUT

When the only time you actually fail something on a 1 it's going to be the 1s you notice!
And I've noticed that pretty much any time my DD hasn't been no crit-fail there will be at least one crit-fail! {Even when there's only one trap in the entire quest!}.

Which I manage to do easily on a 18/2 Wiz/Rogue with maxed Int, so what is your point here? You are spending the points cross class and getting half the benefit of using it on other things.

Maybe YOU do but I prefer to accept that not everyone is perfect and newbies can quite easily find themselves with issues when it comes to skill points.
Especially when so many skills require not just 23 points but high base stat, stat gear and skill gear on top!

Err, taking one point unlocks Performance stat bonus, Morale, Luck etc. bonuses and items - which on a Sorcerer would be about +65.5 by Level 28 - as opposed to N/A when you don't spend a single point.

That's much more than even your maxed repair. Again, you might like to take time to go back and look at the basics.

OK now you've completely lost me:
1) When did 28 Sorc enter this conversation? Actually when did Sorc enter this conversation?

2) With 1 point to unlock and +25 from a 60 Charisma you're still 39.5 points short of your +65.5!
Now yes that's still 26 points rather than my 1 but the same can be said for Repair.

My experience shows otherwise. Dismissing the guards = Diplomacy 17, intimidating Malior = Intim 14. Super high values, right?

On Epic?
You did state Epic!

And as you're now clearly moving the argument to Heroic Partycrashers {a Lvl 7 Quest on Elite} let's look at what that requires for a Wiz/Rogue {6/1} with a base 10 Cha and as he's 1st life at most a +3 Cha item.
Maxed Diplo at EVERY level and a +7 Diplo item {Not easy to find as not exactly a major seller on the AH and likely to be vendor trashed by vets}
The above will give you an 18 Diplo yes but there's no such thing as a +6 item

Even if we accept Ship Buffs and the max available at Lvl 7 Cha swap in you're still going to need a +5 Diplo item!

Super-High? I'd say that a 17dc for at best a tertiary skill is pretty high at Lvl 7!

Make sure you are packing hot-swap items (+7 at those levels) and hitting your heroism pots, wearing the Voice of the Master, your best Cha item, etc.

Again - This is expecting a lot of newbies!

You aren't reading correctly. Bluff reduced your rate of threat generation - i.e. your future rate of change of aggro. It does not change your actual aggro one bit. I suggest you revise the basics of DDO before commenting further on these topics.

So - Making the mob turn around doesn't reduce your chance of getting hit?

Yeah - Really not seeing this!