Monster Champion Feedback

[kafrielveddicus]

Just got an anonymous email from a highly reliable source that this is going to be the new quest panel for Update 24 Patch 1



Please dont ask me for my source, I dont want to see anyone get fired....

Stop pretending you have imaginary(anonymous) friends(source)!

Its good to see that the DEVS have come to their senses on the champions in regards to heroic component of the game and to all the players that thoroughly enjoy that content.

Looks like you were wrong Impaqt, people will be able to get their favor and earn DDO Store points, maybe this will help you pay some money into the game to create new upper level content.

I do remember the kids that took beatings in high school had imaginary friends, there is probably some residual anger left in them from those scars, my condolences goes out!

P.S. to those getting banters with this gentlemen, there have definitely been forum bans from his baiting

[SiliconScout]

I had an idea and chatted with a couple of friends who seemed to think it had merit. I am pretty sure is going to get lost in the chatter here but one none the less that I think should stick.

What if we changed Dungeon Alert a little. What if instead of Harried the alert level spawned more champions?

Yellow Alert = +20% more champions (perhaps the original amount)
Orange = +100% more champions
Red = Every Mob is a champion.

Don't get rid of them entirely, keep them at their current nerfed rate and just have them spawn more and more on alert level. Then the "uber elite" zerg champs will be hit harder with them, but that's OK they like the champions and can handle it. It would seem a far more effective tactic than the current Dungeon Alert system AND it would allow the player to have a direct impact on their spawn rate.

Additionally I think my idea that champion chests should have XP stones and renown only has merit. Maybe add in seasonal event mats as well so you get say a 200 XP stone, 100 Guild renown and a Silver coin in a chest today. To me that would also solve some of the issue with people wanting to have the champions effect XP. Should be easier to implement and you don't have to build a system to track Champion kills separately to provide some sort of XP bonus.


Anyway like I said I expect this to be lost in the chatter but I hope a dev actually does read it, maybe even considers it as an option. I think that vast majority of the player base would be happy with that change.

[Connman]

I had an idea and chatted with a couple of friends who seemed to think it had merit. I am pretty sure is going to get lost in the chatter here but one none the less that I think should stick.

What if we changed Dungeon Alert a little. What if instead of Harried the alert level spawned more champions?

Yellow Alert = +20% more champions (perhaps the original amount)
Orange = +100% more champions
Red = Every Mob is a champion.

Don't get rid of them entirely, keep them at their current nerfed rate and just have them spawn more and more on alert level. Then the "uber elite" zerg champs will be hit harder with them, but that's OK the like the champions and can handle it. It would seem a far more effective tactic than the current Dungeon Alert system AND it would allow the player to have a direct impact on their spawn rate.

Additionally I think my idea that champion chests should have XP stones and renown only has merit. Maybe add in seasonal event mats as well so you get say a 200 XP stone, 100 Guild renown and a Silver coin in a chest today. To me that would also solve some of the issue with people wanting to have the champions effect XP. Should be easier to implement and you don't have to build a system to track Champion kills separately to provide some sort of XP bonus.


Anyway like I said I expect this to be lost in the chatter but I hope a dev actually does read it, maybe even considers it as an option. I think that vast majority of the player base would be happy with that change.

I really like this idea because it makes sense in a RP sense. While harried doesn't really. If you had an elite team of trained warriors rampaging through your fortress that has stood against armies, you are going to be sending out your best and bravest, Grog the Boneater with a necklace made with elven ears is getting woken up from his drunken slumber to be sent to the front lines.

On a separate note we have really been getting off on casual vs elites in this thread and its pretty clear that the people that want HE and EE to be challenging say it needs to go back up on the champions, lets go ahead and ask the devs when they go to change it back on the HE and EE settings to go all the way to 11. Then leave the rest of this official forum topic to great ideas like the one above, and for all the players that think the champions are still too challenging. That way they will not feel like they are being drowned out. I would love to hear from all the people that still think they are too hard, wich quests, what levels they were, any problems they encountered. That way they will have a nice big chunk of feedback so that when they scale the HH and EH down they can get it all the way down to wear the absolute most amount of players are still having fun

Thanks and have a great day.

[phillymiket]

• Hard normal monsters: The percentage chance for a Champion to spawn has been reduced from 12% to 6%.
• Elite normal monsters: The percentage chance for a Champion to spawn has been reduced from 12% to 9%.
• Hard Orange named monsters (mini-bosses) is now 33%.
• Elite Orange named monsters (mini-bosses) is now 66%.
• Champion Damage boost: Reduced by 25%.

Hey there,

Any chance you could tell us the parameters of possibilities of adjustment?

I get the feeling....

Heroic Hard and Epic Hard are linked, same with Heroic Elite and Epic Elite - change one and you change the other.

If that's the case let us know so we can stop asking for impossible things. (or are you worried about Wizards behind Curtains being revealed?)

The feedback seems to indicate making EE harder (much like first day) and making Heroic and particularly HH easier (much like today) is the best 'middle ground'.

Seems simple that you would adjust accordingly.

I'd sure like to have my EEs difficult while leaving the New Folks their Heroics to play with.

Can you even?

Or is this some 'One-Line Wonder' code that has only one way to adjust?

I get the feeling there are 100 pages of people racking their brains for solutions and you guys are looking at two lines of code that say...

Hard Champion /rate set .06
Elite Champion /rate set .1

with zero intention of adding more code.

Are we wasting our time here?

[Qhualor]

You keep saying this and it just isn't true. They have at least 200% more hps as a non crown and some of them have way more than 200% extra hps. Stop trying to spread misinformation to further your agenda.

I'll admit to not playing every quest since the update, but I have played a lot. I'll also admit to not being able to see all monster HP, even though I have MM maxxed out.

I will continue to post the TRUTH and not spread misguided information to the masses or the devs to push any personal agenda. I have not seen any Champion mobs with say 10× the hp than the same monster non Champion mobs. The devs have repeatedly said to report any mobs like that because it is not intended.

[Seikojin]

I had an idea and chatted with a couple of friends who seemed to think it had merit. I am pretty sure is going to get lost in the chatter here but one none the less that I think should stick.

What if we changed Dungeon Alert a little. What if instead of Harried the alert level spawned more champions?

Yellow Alert = +20% more champions (perhaps the original amount)
Orange = +100% more champions
Red = Every Mob is a champion.

Don't get rid of them entirely, keep them at their current nerfed rate and just have them spawn more and more on alert level. Then the "uber elite" zerg champs will be hit harder with them, but that's OK they like the champions and can handle it. It would seem a far more effective tactic than the current Dungeon Alert system AND it would allow the player to have a direct impact on their spawn rate.

Additionally I think my idea that champion chests should have XP stones and renown only has merit. Maybe add in seasonal event mats as well so you get say a 200 XP stone, 100 Guild renown and a Silver coin in a chest today. To me that would also solve some of the issue with people wanting to have the champions effect XP. Should be easier to implement and you don't have to build a system to track Champion kills separately to provide some sort of XP bonus.


Anyway like I said I expect this to be lost in the chatter but I hope a dev actually does read it, maybe even considers it as an option. I think that vast majority of the player base would be happy with that change.

It would be cool if it did that. >: ) Mainly because it starts to align DA to what I want it to be.

[MangLord]

Here's a couple screenshots...

instant 20 stack of vulnerability that took forever to unload.


Bad luck or a ridiculously high % for standard champions? The whole quest was at least 75% champions.






Champions from the dragon fight in extended HHoE.

[NoLeftEye]

Another idea could be to raise the percentage of champions based on the players the group.

Determine the player with the most past lives. The number of past lives and that is the percent chance of a champion.
Don't count lives that are not reflected in past life feats so 7 lives of a Sorc is still only 3 past lives.

A triple completionist is in your party, then champions appear (13x3) 39% of the time.

Iconic and Epic past lives can be added to the mix.

The actual numbers/formula is not as important as the idea of scaling the dungeons to match the players.

That may make is so the a group of first lifers running Elite will have a totally different set of mobs as a group of advanced players BUT hopefully the challenge is similar.

[Monkey-Boy]

"One shot kills " is a big pile of turd exaggeration.

Nonsense, I've seen it with my own eyes.

They might have been that rare combination of "I hit hard" and fort bypass so it may not have happened often. But I saw it happen, it was not an exaggeration.

[brian14]

I had an idea and chatted with a couple of friends who seemed to think it had merit. I am pretty sure is going to get lost in the chatter here but one none the less that I think should stick.

What if we changed Dungeon Alert a little. What if instead of Harried the alert level spawned more champions?

Yellow Alert = +20% more champions (perhaps the original amount)
Orange = +100% more champions
Red = Every Mob is a champion.

Don't get rid of them entirely, keep them at their current nerfed rate and just have them spawn more and more on alert level. Then the "uber elite" zerg champs will be hit harder with them, but that's OK they like the champions and can handle it. It would seem a far more effective tactic than the current Dungeon Alert system AND it would allow the player to have a direct impact on their spawn rate.

This is brilliant! Best idea and best use for champions I heard so far.

Additionally I think my idea that champion chests should have XP stones and renown only has merit. Maybe add in seasonal event mats as well so you get say a 200 XP stone, 100 Guild renown and a Silver coin in a chest today. To me that would also solve some of the issue with people wanting to have the champions effect XP. Should be easier to implement and you don't have to build a system to track Champion kills separately to provide some sort of XP bonus.

Agree with this too. That way players get some tangible reward from fighting (and deliberately provoking -- see above) champions, yet no reward absolutely requires one to fight champions.

Incidentally, this change might put an end to level 5 invulnerable tanks staggering through a mob of kobolds on red-alert elite (very non-)Stealthy Repossession

[MangLord]

Here's a couple screenshots...

instant 20 stack of vulnerability that took forever to unload.






Champions from the dragon fight in extended HHoE.

All quests on EH.

[gwonbush]

There's only one problem with making more champions the higher the dungeon alert gets: sometimes (mainly in newer quests) red alert is completely unavoidable. It goes from nothing to red in an instant, making you have to fight a veritable army that appears right on top of you. Now imagine if the 20 monsters that just spawned were all champions on top of that.

[MangLord]

All those pics were from last weekend. Did we get a hotfix in the meantime?

[Impaqt]

All those pics were from last weekend. Did we get a hotfix in the meantime?

no hotfix, but spawn rates were adjusted yesterday afternoon.

[Impaqt]

Is this post-change?

I'd say bad luck.

I've done that one pre and post change.

I didn't see 75% s[awn rate or anything close either time. Certainly not post change.

After running as much as I can given RL, which is a bunch, I've had one quest, post change, have Champs like your screenshots.

Random is random. Given the system it will happen but very very rarely it seems.

Maybe try again? I bet the second, and most future runs, will be far less.



Come on! He is making a joke :-D

I disagree with Impaqt on this one as much as the next guy (on my side of this) but he's getting a bit of a hard time IMO.

It's funny and makes his point, though I disagree with it.

By the way Impaqt, nice "shop" ( MS Paint?) ;-D (zing!)

What do you mean? I see no evidence that was made in 2 minutes in MSpaint! that came right from my very reliable anonymous source!

[SiliconScout]

There's only one problem with making more champions the higher the dungeon alert gets: sometimes (mainly in newer quests) red alert is completely unavoidable. It goes from nothing to red in an instant, making you have to fight a veritable army that appears right on top of you. Now imagine if the 20 monsters that just spawned were all champions on top of that.

I don't disagree, but then I would hope it would add impetus for Turbine to resolve that issue as it certainly can't be Working As Intended. If it is then I am sorry to say they need to be less lazy with the quest design and simply build a better encounter that doesn't easy button... that or spawn fewer mobs, make it crank say Orange instead. It would probably be just as hard as the current non-champ Red alert AND be easier on server resources.

[phillymiket]

What do you mean? I see no evidence that was made in 2 minutes in MSpaint! that came right from my very reliable anonymous source!

I though he was still stuck in a Russian Airport.

[tralfaz81]

I had an idea and chatted with a couple of friends who seemed to think it had merit. I am pretty sure is going to get lost in the chatter here but one none the less that I think should stick.

What if we changed Dungeon Alert a little. What if instead of Harried the alert level spawned more champions?

Yellow Alert = +20% more champions (perhaps the original amount)
Orange = +100% more champions
Red = Every Mob is a champion.

Don't get rid of them entirely, keep them at their current nerfed rate and just have them spawn more and more on alert level. Then the "uber elite" zerg champs will be hit harder with them, but that's OK they like the champions and can handle it. It would seem a far more effective tactic than the current Dungeon Alert system AND it would allow the player to have a direct impact on their spawn rate.

Additionally I think my idea that champion chests should have XP stones and renown only has merit. Maybe add in seasonal event mats as well so you get say a 200 XP stone, 100 Guild renown and a Silver coin in a chest today. To me that would also solve some of the issue with people wanting to have the champions effect XP. Should be easier to implement and you don't have to build a system to track Champion kills separately to provide some sort of XP bonus.


Anyway like I said I expect this to be lost in the chatter but I hope a dev actually does read it, maybe even considers it as an option. I think that vast majority of the player base would be happy with that change.

Yeah, I read those forums too.

[MangLord]

no hotfix, but spawn rates were adjusted yesterday afternoon.

Hmmm. I may have to jump back into EH instead of drunken EN saga runs. I was pleased at myself for doing an all-optionals demonweb quest run in under 45 min. I'm starting to like the Trial of Wits puzzles more than the rest of the quest.

[zorander6]

I had an idea and chatted with a couple of friends who seemed to think it had merit. I am pretty sure is going to get lost in the chatter here but one none the less that I think should stick.

What if we changed Dungeon Alert a little. What if instead of Harried the alert level spawned more champions?

Yellow Alert = +20% more champions (perhaps the original amount)
Orange = +100% more champions
Red = Every Mob is a champion.

Don't get rid of them entirely, keep them at their current nerfed rate and just have them spawn more and more on alert level. Then the "uber elite" zerg champs will be hit harder with them, but that's OK they like the champions and can handle it. It would seem a far more effective tactic than the current Dungeon Alert system AND it would allow the player to have a direct impact on their spawn rate.

Additionally I think my idea that champion chests should have XP stones and renown only has merit. Maybe add in seasonal event mats as well so you get say a 200 XP stone, 100 Guild renown and a Silver coin in a chest today. To me that would also solve some of the issue with people wanting to have the champions effect XP. Should be easier to implement and you don't have to build a system to track Champion kills separately to provide some sort of XP bonus.


Anyway like I said I expect this to be lost in the chatter but I hope a dev actually does read it, maybe even considers it as an option. I think that vast majority of the player base would be happy with that change.

I would have had no problem with this whatsoever, and it'd give the benefit of penalizing the elite few who have been complaining that the game is too easy. Instead of them being denigrating "just run normal" others could then say "just run red alert." and all this would have been a happy memory. Frankly I'm still taking a break from DDO. I'd need a much better computer to deal with the lag anyways. My computer ran the game fine until about a year ago. Can't afford a new one at this point so I may be back later. Still really have no interest in champions.