THF, SWF, and TWF

[SealedInSong]

Two-handed fighting:
Bonus to speed (or glancing blows/off-hand attacks):
Adds glancing blows to attack sequence
+50% glancing blow damage
+9% glancing blow triggering weapon effect
Bonus to damage:
+50% stat modifier to damage
+20 melee power

Single-weapon fighting:
Bonus to speed (or glancing blows/off-hand attacks):
+30% combat style attack speed
Bonus to damage:
+10 melee power
+50% appropriate ability score to damage
Greatly synergizes with doublestrike
Can equip offhand orb

Two-weapon fighting:
Bonus to speed (or glancing blows/off-hand attacks):
80% off-hand attack
Bonus to damage:
NONE
Benefits high bonus damage dice such as Sneak Attack
Secondary effects in offhand apply to mainhand


***

Above was compiled with what others have written and my own sense of the merits.

I think the general player consensus is, yes, TWF has some uses for pure/near pure rogues, but beyond that, it's now mostly flavor for tempest rangers. I find that a little sad, but there was a time when TWF was king, as many remember.

My note to the devs would be...BUFF TWF this way:
give it a melee tiered power boost like other fighting styles
sprinkle enhancement trees and epic destinies with a few more TWF perks, on the lines of tempest or Balanced Attacks (Primal Avatar)

I'm sure there are DDO players out there with better ideas, though.

[Dalsheel]

off hand double strike = to main hand double strike

Who told you that? There is no way this is true. I'm playing pure monks ever since monk class came out, I would have noticed such a huge boost.

Can we have a DEV comment on this please?

Also, you forgot to mention unarmed monks have the worst critical profile in the game and NO WAY to improve it, you know, like everyone else does nowadays. Pulverizer (works even with Bows if Morphic Arrows secondary imbue is active), Celestial Champion, Swashbuckling, Keen Edge, Ninja Spy capstone, Holy Sword (even works with bows ffs) and maybe a few more abilities I'm forgetting atm... none of these works on handwraps.

Two Weapon Fighting needs to be updated. Shield Fighting and Single Weapon Fighting outDPSing Two Weapon Fighting is a joke, and needs fixxed A.S.A.P.

Oh, and btw, there's no ability pre-req for either S&B or SWF like there is for 2HF and 2WF allowing for even more MIN/MAXing. How about that?

[Monkey-Boy]

I'm sure there are DDO players out there with better ideas, though.

I'm thinking it would be best of SWFing/Vanguard received some hefty nerfs.

For one if the damage bonus on my SWFing pally is correct there is no way in hell the modifier was changed 1.5 Stat damage from 2x Stat. Was this actually changed?

Probably what'd be best is to remove the 30%/20% speed bonuses.

Though Severlin said they'd prefer not to balance stuff with nerfs, but when my pally gains 1000 DPS by replacing his off-hand weapon with an orb the system is horribly broken.

SWFing is putting out 30% more single-target DPS than TWFing when all things are equal (in this case, the same toon just LR'd). Is Turbine going to buff TWFing 30% to make up for this nonsense?

[Therrias]

More details will be posted shortly after we refine the tests a little better. So far highest DPS for TWFing was a Ranger 18/Rogue 1/Fighter 1 with both Deception and Improved deception so it was getting most of the sneak attack (blitzing and boosted was over 100). it clocked in around 2900ish DPS.

I would like to see a 20 Rogue, but nobody plays them anymore

Best total was a SWFing pally that broke 4k.

All toons were maxed out gear-wise, and had many, many PLs.

In one case, the SAME TOON (paladin) LR'd and changed from TWFing to SWFing and gained 1000 DPS.

There's a really good TWF barbarian build on that other DDO forum with more DPS than anything you listed here.

[Tesrali]

There's a really good TWF barbarian build on that other DDO forum with more DPS than anything you listed here.

I have seen said build, and don't think he has 5k dps or w/e they are saying.

[Bolo_Grubb]

I would like to see a 20 Rogue, but nobody plays them anymore

I play a pure Rogue assassin but I am on Sarlona. I would be happy to help with the test if I can.

[Grailhawk]

Who told you

Any time I proced a death touch x4 back in the day that's the only way that could work.

[Lurzifer]

I beat that 4k dps from your single weapon pally any day with my twf barb.

Come at me bro :P

[Monkey-Boy]

I beat that 4k dps from your single weapon pally any day with my twf barb.

Come at me bro :P

Cool, if you still have that toon can you make a quick youtube clip of him killing the optional first boss in EE Cabal?

[Monkey-Boy]

I play a pure Rogue assassin but I am on Sarlona. I would be happy to help with the test if I can.

Time how long it takes for you to kill the first optional boss in EE Cabal. He's really easy to get to and you should be able to see his HP because of monster manual.

[Lurzifer]

Cool, if you still have that toon can you make a quick youtube clip of him killing the optional first boss in EE Cabal?

scratchin the 5k. You are welcome.

[Monkey-Boy]

scratchin the 5k. You are welcome.

Well done sir, what weapons were you using and do you have a link to the build?

[Lurzifer]

Well done sir, what weapons were you using and do you have a link to the build?

Two Mortal Fear weapons with paralyzing and dragons edge, flames and 1st degree first. Well straight forward pure 2wf Khopesh Barb with 41 Frenzy 38 Ravager 1 Human Points.

[Grailhawk]

Two Mortal Fear weapons with paralyzing and dragons edge, flames and 1st degree first. Well straight forward pure 2wf Khopesh Barb with 41 Frenzy 38 Ravager 1 Human Points.

Was that from before or after the Strom's Eye change? Looks like the icon is at 25 and never moves from there?

[Lurzifer]

Was that from before or after the Strom's Eye change? Looks like the icon is at 25 and never moves from there?

Its from today, after my post that i beat those 4k easily :P

Seems to be a visual thing only, the charges go down but not the counter on the buff bar.

[Sehenry03]

So does this mean we can stop complaining about TWF now? Or is Lurz just OP in every regard and TWF is still broken?

Lurz can I ask 2 questions?

1) Is TWF needing a huge boost?

2) Was the nerf to Storms Eye to much?

[Monkey-Boy]

So does this mean we can stop complaining about TWF now? Or is Lurz just OP in every regard and TWF is still broken?

My pally LR'd into SWFing from TWFing and gained 1000 DPS, a guilldie did the same with his barb and saw similar results.

something's still off.

[Grailhawk]

So does this mean we can stop complaining about TWF now? Or is Lurz just OP in every regard and TWF is still broken?

Lurz can I ask 2 questions?

1) Is TWF needing a huge boost?

2) Was the nerf to Storms Eye to much?

Need to see what Lurzifer can do as SWF before we can say that, what we can say right now is that Lurzifer's TWF barb is the best DPS we have seen so far.

[Fafnir]

Unarmed dps is weak. The inclusion of rapid growth in crit multiplier and seeker bonuses means that the [d6] 20x2 crit profile of handwraps falls way behind. Added to that is that lots of dmg items don't work with wraps (e.g. Sanctified Gages).

[Lurzifer]

So does this mean we can stop complaining about TWF now? Or is Lurz just OP in every regard and TWF is still broken?

Lurz can I ask 2 questions?

1) Is TWF needing a huge boost?

2) Was the nerf to Storms Eye to much?

1) some skills that work on both hands might be nice, since cleaves and such only work on mainhand and lower dps quite significant on a single target. Tempest skills are a start but they are in a crappy class in a crappy tree and are basically useless.
2) well its now some boost for a bossfight or something, not too shabby since best part of Capstone imo is the 400 bludgeon damage which scales to over 1k on my toon.