Druid Build

[Lonnbeimnech]

4 dc if you pick primal.
Dont forget that you need twists for dc so no sense or any other melle twists.
My point is simple, for a quake caster you go all or nothing.
But im stating my opinion clearly on the ability to quake everything in game.
Sure for lv 20 base ees, and motu ones you can run in dreadnought.
In wheleon / stormhorns / High roads (shadows and archers) you need maxed wisdom and evoc dc.
Personaly i prefer a good quake more above a dreadnought with pitful prr and longer cast times on spells.

IF you go melle there is a bigger chance you lose even more dc.
Im saying from personal experience, for druid its either no fail quake or fail get aggro and die from couple hits.
I prefer the first one personaly for a ee viable druid

I did one of these caster build too, and had a slightly different experience. I found that the earthquake dc was great on a focused dc build, but then what? no real way to kill mobs so soloing was pretty much out of the question. So I moved some things around to up my dps, lowering my dc. And even though the dc was no longer no fail, it greatly reduced incoming damage. If it was 80% effective it meant out of 10 mobs, 8 would be on their back and 2 would be up fighting for about 2 seconds until they failed their next save. The mobs laying on the ground would block the others from attacking since mobs cant move through each other, and with beguile ticking away from ice strom and earthquake and the slower attack from mantle, meant I wasn't getting hit very much. Oh yeah, I have shroud displace clickies too.

But it meant I could kill mobs in ee all by myself, so no need for a party to bring dps for me.

[Blackheartox]

I did one of these caster build too, and had a slightly different experience. I found that the earthquake dc was great on a focused dc build, but then what? no real way to kill mobs so soloing was pretty much out of the question. So I moved some things around to up my dps, lowering my dc. And even though the dc was no longer no fail, it greatly reduced incoming damage. If it was 80% effective it meant out of 10 mobs, 8 would be on their back and 2 would be up fighting for about 2 seconds until they failed their next save. The mobs laying on the ground would block the others from attacking since mobs cant move through each other, and with beguile ticking away from ice strom and earthquake and the slower attack from mantle, meant I wasn't getting hit very much. Oh yeah, I have shroud displace clickies too.

But it meant I could kill mobs in ee all by myself, so no need for a party to bring dps for me.

A caster has low kill potential , beside being shiradi and counting on quake procs you realy dont have many options.
Primal offers spores and tsunami, tsunami being horrible due to dispeling quake.
Best option is exalted, as a sunburst sla loads up stacks quite fast so you can spam ion cannon and you can use sla for quick damage spams.
You can solo with exalted quite nicely from my experience.
But couple things to adress. Melle druids just have to low prr and casting times and damage to be considerd good melle builds in ee. They are great for heroics tho.
There are couple wolf builds that are deep splashes with only 8 druid levels that can work ok.

But thread is about a ee viable druid, and imo caster is the way to go, caster with monk splash from my experience.

There is another fact i forgot to write, once you get reputation of a good cc-druid you can always fill a party for any ee you want to run. And it makes questing go faster as even barbs feel secure with you in party, no matter how much i try to play "dps" i cannot do the same as a centerd build nor a shiradi or monkcher.
If i can provide to those builds a secure enviorment to kill faster it actualy makes ees go way faster.
Shrug , we have different way of thinking about playing.
I like pulling green/red and quaking in ees and letting my party kill things, making ee-s efficient and fast.
Dont like wasting 10 minutes on every pack of mobs.

My opinion isnt based on theory crafting alone but on actual playing in ees as druid, caster and from partying with melle druids.

[Munkenmo]

You cannot make a viable all rounder in ddo

I can, I have, and I will again.

My druid right now is a perfect example of a good all rounder (though he's definitely more caster focused than melee focused)

[Blackheartox]

I can, I have, and I will again.

My druid right now is a perfect example of a good all rounder (though he's definitely more caster focused than melee focused)

Yes and bards are good in endgame.. O wait nvm.. Talking nonsense

[Munkenmo]

I won't speak on behalf of bards.

Monk splashed druids can still fit in power attack, improved crit, full 2wf chain, stunning fist and reach max evocation DC's.
You've admitted already yourself that you've gotta run in a wisdom based destiny. Fortunately GMOF is a wisdom based ED + it offers another 3 dodge, 3% double strike 1.5w and EIN.

I won't pretend my DPS is as good on my druid as it is on my Monk, But it's definitely a good all round build that has a no fail earthquake on all EE content that can heal and melee.

I don't do nonsense.

[Blackheartox]

I won't speak on behalf of bards.

Monk splashed druids can still fit in power attack, improved crit, full 2wf chain, stunning fist and reach max evocation DC's.
You've admitted already yourself that you've gotta run in a wisdom based destiny. Fortunately GMOF is a wisdom based ED + it offers another 3 dodge, 3% double strike 1.5w and EIN.

I won't pretend my DPS is as good on my druid as it is on my Monk, But it's definitely a good all round build that has a no fail earthquake on all EE content that can heal and melee.

I don't do nonsense.

I highly doubt you can land equake on ee assasins and archers + gnolls in stormhorns with melle feats without full dedication to wisdom and evoc feats.
And with melle feats you cannot reach max evoc dc.

Counting in the fact that primal nets you maxed dc over gmaster of flowers with 1 more dc, and possible 3 feats for evoc that you lack or metas.
Im at my 38th life /last druid and soonish triple/ with +5 tomes and 3 sorc plifes.
And lacking couple dcs and not picking evoc feats makes my quake not no fail.
I tried out 2 different caster druids for epics, 1 with less dc and this one with more. /less one had shield feats for prr and wizzy splash over monk for free feat and mm spam for shiradi but i ended up in primal or exalted even in that build.
Was quite nice tho to hit nearly 180 prr when guardian angel would proc.

All i can say is simply put in 1 sentence, without maxed dc i couldnt get ee assasins and archers without solid foq clickie and debuffs from icy mantle and storm of vengance. And even then they would save on ocasions.

So my experience is based on highest ee quests and highest reflex based mobs, not on ee bargain of blood (was just a example of a silly ee that can be done by any build).

[SirValentine]

Monk splashed druids can still fit in power attack, improved crit, full 2wf chain, stunning fist and reach max evocation DC's.

Please post your full build.

Because that just doesn't sound right to me. Do you have some special race that gets a whole bunch of bonus feats? Or do you say "max evocation DCs" when really you just mean "effective evocation DCs that are somewhat behind max DCs"?

[SirValentine]

I highly doubt you can land equake on ee assasins and archers + gnolls in stormhorns with melle feats without full dedication to wisdom and evoc feats.

He may well be able to. Druids can pile on lots of debuffs.

And with melle feats you cannot reach max evoc dc.

That, I'm with you on. I think he's BSing us about "max" Evocation DC. There just are not that many feat slots.

[voodoogroves]

Please post your full build.

Because that just doesn't sound right to me. Do you have some special race that gets a whole bunch of bonus feats? Or do you say "max evocation DCs" when really you just mean "effective evocation DCs that are somewhat behind max DCs"?

Well, I know he prefers monk 2 / wiz 1 ... so we could guess

1 human + 7 + 2 monk + 1 wiz/fighter = 11

TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Stunning Fist, PA, Improved Crit, SF, GSF, Wizard ... heighten quicken?

Dunno, I'd think you'd want adept/master if you were going for DCs

[Lonnbeimnech]

1 human + 7 + 2 monk + 1 wiz/fighter = 11

isn't it 12? 1 from fighter 1 from wiz, 2 from monk, 1 from human and 7 from level up.

You get another feat at 21, 24 and 27, so you can fit all that in and still pick up adept, master and grandmaster.

[unbongwah]

isn't it 12? 1 from fighter 1 from wiz, 2 from monk, 1 from human and 7 from level up.

If you know how to squeeze ftr, wiz, monk, and druid all into one build, I'm sure we'd love to hear it...

[Lonnbeimnech]

If you know how to squeeze ftr, wiz, monk, and druid all into one build, I'm sure we'd love to hear it...

Doh, I shouldn't post tired.

Still, you can squeeze in grandmaster with feats at 21, 24, and 27.

[SirValentine]

isn't it 12? 1 from fighter 1 from wiz, 2 from monk, 1 from human and 7 from level up.

You get another feat at 21, 24 and 27, so you can fit all that in and still pick up adept, master and grandmaster.

But for MAX Evo DCs, which he claimed, he also needs to fit in Epic Spell Focus. And a couple Great Wisdoms. And Completionist.

Nevermind if he actually also wants some useful things like Maximize.

[Wipey]

It's reflex, he can afford dropping few DC points and still be super effective.
Water stance makes lot of sense on castery druid ( unlike cleric, but hey, that thread died cause everybody is full of theories yet nobody has such character of course ), even if you never melee.

[Munkenmo]

There are couple wolf builds that are deep splashes with only 8 druid levels that can work ok.

Any wolf build that does not have 9druid levels to unlock the natural fighting feats is doing it wrong. It's why alot of the primarily melee druids are 9druid/9monk/2fighter.

Please post your full build.

Because that just doesn't sound right to me. Do you have some special race that gets a whole bunch of bonus feats? Or do you say "max evocation DCs" when really you just mean "effective evocation DCs that are somewhat behind max DCs"?

I'll concede, I'm not spending feats on Epic Wisdom or Master stances, nor completionist, which I guess are needed. So I've got effective DC's that are ~3 behind max.


human = 1 feat, monk = 2feats, wiz = 1 feat, heroic = 7 feats, epic = 3 feats, destiny = 2 feats Total = 14feats + 2 ED feats

1 druid Maximise, (H) Power Attack
2 druid
3 monk Wizard Pastlife, (M) TWF
4 druid
5 druid
6 druid Quicken
7 druid
8 druid
9 wizard Empower Healing, (W) Spell focus : Evocation
10 druid
11 druid
12 druid I Twf
13 druid
14 druid
15 druid Improved Crit Bludgeoning
16 druid
17 druid
18 druid G TWF
19 druid
20 monk (M) Stunning fist
21 epic Great spell Focus Evocation
24 epic Epic Spell focus Evocation
26 Perfect TWF
27 Mental Toughness (or empower, or heighten)
28 Useless ED Feat

Unbuffed, non twisted values:
wis = 18, +7levels, +5tome, +11item, +3insight, +1exceptional, +2 alchemical wraps, +2 water stance, +1 racial wis, 2seasons herald, 1 natures warrior, +5gmof wis : 58wisdom (24mod)
evo buffs = 3feats, 5item, 2augment, 3sorc lives, 1wiz past life, 1strength of soltice : 15 boost to evo.

Earthquake DC = 10 + 8(spell level) + 24wis mos +15evo boosts = 57 unbuffed, no twists, no enemy debuffs.
Factoring in buffs twists & debuffs, it's not overly difficult to get this to an effective mid 70's DC.

I highly doubt you can land equake on ee assasins and archers + gnolls in stormhorns with melle feats without full dedication to wisdom and evoc feats.

So my experience is based on highest ee quests and highest reflex based mobs, not on ee bargain of blood (was just a example of a silly ee that can be done by any build).

Where a total caster orientated druid would take mental toughness' and empower or shield masteries I've gone for a melee route. I've never come across a druid with higher DC's than myself ingame.

All i can say is simply put in 1 sentence, without maxed dc i couldnt get ee assasins and archers without solid foq clickie and debuffs from icy mantle and storm of vengance. And even then they would save on ocasions.

So my experience is based on highest ee quests and highest reflex based mobs, not on ee bargain of blood (was just a example of a silly ee that can be done by any build).

I do storm horns regularly, I'm not sure why you're having problems. I always use Ice storm with my earthquakes, I don't care if it's necessary or not. Ice storm is an ongoing aoe damage proc, it has no save, it's in my spell list, and it works brilliantly with mantle of the icy soul.

Anyway I'm done arguing here, you seem to be stuck with your belief. Hybrids are possible, I know, I play one in the toughest content.

[unbongwah]

But for MAX Evo DCs, which he claimed, he also needs to fit in Epic Spell Focus. And a couple Great Wisdoms. And Completionist.

If he truly wants "max" DCs on a drunk, then he'll want Spell Focus x3, Great WIS x2, Heighten, Completionist, Adept/Master/GM of Forms, and Arcane Initiate. That's 11 feats, 3 of which are epic; that's every regular feat on a standard drunk (D 18/M 2); wiz splash gets 1 more metamagic. However, since fTdOmen lists 6 melee feats on what I presume is a 17/2/1 split, he's missing at least 3 of those DC-boosting feats, probably more since as you point out that's not including Maximize etc.

That said, I don't know any caster who invests that much into their DCs, since you hit a point of diminishing returns quickly. +1 DCs isn't worth three feats (Adept/Master/GM of Forms) and probably isn't worth two (Great WIS x2); esp. if he's got +5 DCs Twisted from Magister & Draconic. So I'm inferring what he really means is "my DCs are just as good as any other DC-based caster plus I have full TWF melee!" Which is more realistic, though still requires seeing his actual build to judge.

EDIT: and ofc he posts his build before I finish my reply NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG. Though I was right about him not having the higher-tier stances nor Great WIS. [Nor Completionist, but I don't fault people for not being OCD enough for that.]

[Steven]

Ok so it looks like going rogue is just a bad Idea for EE it's only good for EH and below. Going to drop that then and just go pure druid. Now the next question I have is on twists I am thinking about doing Magister Augmentation - Evocation for reduced Reflex on the mobs, Magister Specialist - +3 DC to Evocation, Primal cocoon, Then staying in Shardi, not sure on this one but nerve venom seems like a very large bonus for a caster druid. Due to the fact normally caster runs multiple aoe's. I.E. Ice storm with Earthquake. This would allow me to paralyze mobs fairly often. However not sure there is enough other options in that ED to make it viable

[Tilomere]

You don't need max or even any DC's or even to use earthquake at all for EE. I beat every EE in the game on my druid as a strength based wolf, elemental, arcane archer, and dragonmarked healer/summoner/hire user through four different past lives using mass regen and sleet storm and never casting earthquake because I didn't like how it made the screen shake.

So yes, you can make a viable EE druid that can basically do whatever you want, and never even use earthquake. This is especially true if you have a plan to replace or supplement it with other CC or healing.