Archer Assassin Help Needed

[SiliconScout]

OK so I am finally going to bite the bullet on TR'ing my Arcane Archer - Assassin build.

Problem is I have been all wizzy since the Enhancement Pass and I don't really have the knowledge to make the split any longer.

Currently he's an 18 Rogue / 1 Wizard / 1 Ranger. I know that with the new enhancements the wizard is a completely wasted level. But I wonder if I can't splash a little deeper into Ranger or perhaps into fighter for greater effect.

I want to keep the Rogue for Evasion/Imp Evasion as well as trapping, stealth and sneaks. I also really want him to keep the assassinate ability and he's to remain primarily an archer.

I don't care if I am "MAX DPS" and realize that I will be giving some DPS up going ranged without a doubt but I would like to keep him as viable as possible and still use a bow as his primary weapon.

Any ideas on what kind of split / enhancements I should be looking at for this?

Any help is more than welcome.

Thanks.

[galei]

Possible to go pure rogue elf. Using elf tree for AA unless you'd want to go with a 13/7 rog/rgr which will give you access to DWS and thus increased SA range with bows as well as increased SA die. But i would do the feats for a pure something like this.

1. PBS
3. WF: ranged ( replace with something else?)
6. rapid shot
9. Precise Shot
12. Improved Prec Shot
15. IC: ranged
18. Manyshot

[voodoogroves]

Possible to go pure rogue elf. Using elf tree for AA unless you'd want to go with a 13/7 rog/rgr which will give you access to DWS and thus increased SA range with bows as well as increased SA die. But i would do the feats for a pure something like this.

1. PBS
3. WF: ranged ( replace with something else?)
6. rapid shot
9. Precise Shot
12. Improved Prec Shot
15. IC: ranged
18. Manyshot

replace that with precision.

[unbongwah]

I want to keep the Rogue for Evasion/Imp Evasion as well as trapping, stealth and sneaks. I also really want him to keep the assassinate ability and he's to remain primarily an archer.

First off, bear in mind that Assassinate doesn't work w/ranged atks, so it's pointless unless you plan to melee as well. [OTOH, Lethality applies to all atks.] Second, how much do you wish to invest in your Assassinate DCs? Since they're based on INT while archery dmg will be based on STR or possibly DEX (if you have elven Grace or Ninja+ZA), you'd be pulling your primary stat in more than one direction. [If anything, I think some sort of Assassin / Mechanic hybrid who alternates between TWF & repeaters would be better.]

Possible to go pure rogue elf.

The drawback to using the elf racial AA tree is it chews up a lot of APs: 14 APs to unlock it, plus whatever APs you invest in it. Rog 13 / rgr 6 is still a pretty potent combo; basis of my Triple A and DWM builds, though in need of a U19 sprucing-up.

1. PBS
3. WF: ranged ( replace with something else?)
6. rapid shot
9. Precise Shot
12. Improved Prec Shot
15. IC: ranged
18. Manyshot

I would revise this to: PBS (1), Rapid Shot (3), Precise Shot (6), Manyshot (9), IC:Ranged (12), IPS (15), Precision (18), Imp Sneak Atk (21), Combat Archery (24). A repeater Mechanic is almost identical, but with Rapid Reload instead of MS.

[SiliconScout]

I do want assassin for the melee times because even in the current incarnation there are times when it's better to put the bow away and TWF it. I am currenly having no issues with my Assassinate DC's and that should only go up with the extra 2 stat points.

My thought was at least 6 Ranger. Mainly that gives me better AC options, more HP but most importantly a bucket load of feats free: Bow Strength, Rapid Shot, Preciise shot, many shot on the ranged side and twf and improved twf for melee. Die Hard doesn't hurt either for that matter.

my thoughts are 14 Rogue / 6 Ranger OR perhaps dropping 2-4 of those rogue levels to grab fighter and toss in some Kensai. Doing that likely means I have to give up on AA however. 2 levels of fighter could mean though that I can take Imp Precise shot and greather twf with the "free" feats.

The guy has a full set of +2 tomes and +3 in dex and int currently. I could look at getting either to +4 but if I take the ranger levels I can dump out dex as I won't need the requirements and can take insightful reflexes to keep my evasion high. That would mean I am using INT and STR as my primary stats.

This is a "little" bit of a flavor build and based off an old character I had so nostalgia is willing to cut me a little slack on the build! ;-)

[katz]

quick n dirty

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page


AAA redux
Level 20 True Neutral Elf Male
(14 Rogue \ 6 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 222
Spell Points: 50 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 18
Will: 6


                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    23
Dexterity            16                    19
Constitution         12                    14
Intelligence         16                    20
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             10                    12


Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11



Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot




Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead




Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack




Level 4 (Ranger)




Level 5 (Ranger)




Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Vermin
Feat: (Selected) Precision




Level 7 (Ranger)




Level 8 (Rogue)




Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) None







Level 10 (Rogue)




Level 11 (Rogue)




Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) None




Level 13 (Rogue)




Level 14 (Rogue)




Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot




Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion




Level 17 (Rogue)




Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing or Ranged




Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist




Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Knife in the Darkness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Dagger in the Back (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Assassin's Trick (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Nimbleness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Heartseeker Poison (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Venomed Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Venomed Blades (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Venomed Blades (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Damage Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Damage Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Execute (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Damage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Killer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Assassinate (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Morphic Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Metalline Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Awareness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Awareness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Awareness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing  Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing  Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing  Arrows (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sneak Attack (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Stealthy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Stealthy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Stealthy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Tendon Cut (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Faster Sneaking (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Faster Sneaking (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Faster Sneaking (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Thrill of the Hunt (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Thrill of the Hunt (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Thrill of the Hunt (Rank 3)

longbow/ dual rapier

i left a few feats unchosen so you could be creative, but if it were me, i would totally take cleave and great cleave to get overwhelming crit at 21 or 24

enhancements might not be the best. like i said, quick n dirty. but should at least give you an idea.

[unbongwah]

Rog 13 / rgr 6 / ftr 1 gets you 11 feats (7 heroic + 1 ftr + 3 epic), not counting ED feats. At a minimum you want: PBS, GTWF, IPS. I would certainly recommend two Improved Crits (Ranged & whatever your melee choice is), plus Power Atk and/or Precision; I would also take Imp Sneak Atk and Combat Archery as two of your epic feats. So that leaves 2 or 3 feats to play with: e.g., Cleave/GC/Overwhelming Crit; Least Shadow DM + Extend for Displacement; Toughness + eToughness (much easier on a dwarf than an elf, tho).

Another option would be to trade rgr lvls for rog and use those extra feats to cover the loss. You lose feats as well as access to higher-tier rgr abilities, but gain more sneak atks and higher Assassinate DCs. I think you can go as low as rog 18 / rgr 2, which lets you take Lethality, and have just enough feats: PBS (1), Precision or Power Atk (3), Prec Shot (6), Manyshot (9), ITWF (12), IPS (15), GTWF (18), ISA (21), CA (24).

[SiliconScout]

Thanks for the ideas. Interesting to note that my initial fumblings weren't far from the posted quick n dirty. You guys have certianly given me some stuff to think about. I am going to let that noodle and will post the build once I am done planning it.

Thanks again.