Mass Frog bug (another one)

[SirValentine]

I took Mass Frog, just for grins, on my Wis-based caster, and it's actually not that bad. I have it landing reasonably well in...well, everything except the new content. It is pretty useless in EE Storm Horns quests, even with a near-max Wisdom and a Transmutation item equipped.

However, I've discovered that it's Spell Penetration check is all borked up, making it it useless against things with even moderate Spell Resistance.

Instead of caster level of 25+, it's cast at a caster level of 8. E.g., compare Implosion and Mass Frog:

(Combat): You begin to cast Implosion at level 29.
(Combat): You roll to see if you can penetrate Blood Tide Sharpshooter's dodge. You roll a 6 (+37): spell penetration success!


(Combat): You roll to see if you can penetrate Blood Tide Sharpshooter's dodge. You roll a 19 (+16): spell penetration success!

21 points of difference in Spell Pen matters. I've already bug-reported it, but if you were thinking about taking it, keep this in mind.

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UPDATED, SEPT 2016 (YES, 3 YEARS LATER): Still bugged.

[Miow]

I took Mass Frog, just for grins, on my Wis-based caster, and it's actually not that bad. I have it landing reasonably well in...well, everything except the new content. It is pretty useless in EE Storm Horns quests, even with a near-max Wisdom and a Transmutation item equipped.

However, I've discovered that it's Spell Penetration check is all borked up, making it it useless against things with even moderate Spell Resistance.

Instead of caster level of 25+, it's cast at a caster level of 8. E.g., compare Implosion and Mass Frog:

(Combat): You begin to cast Implosion at level 29.
(Combat): You roll to see if you can penetrate Blood Tide Sharpshooter's dodge. You roll a 6 (+37): spell penetration success!


(Combat): You roll to see if you can penetrate Blood Tide Sharpshooter's dodge. You roll a 19 (+16): spell penetration success!

21 points of difference in Spell Pen matters. I've already bug-reported it, but if you were thinking about taking it, keep this in mind.

Bump this is still a bug annoying as heck probably an ez fix.

[knightgf]

It didn't say anywhere that 'This item has reduced Spell Penetration power'?

[SirValentine]

6 months later and a bunch of TRs later, on Cleric instead of FvS, back to 28, back with Mass Frog, and back to totally bugged Spell Penetration for Mass Frog.

It's worth casting against mobs that don't have Spell Resistance, but useless against any that do, thanks do the broken Spell Pen check. Another Bug Report submitted. Hoping they fix this some time soon.

[Miow]

Man seriously i will bug it again as well...

[Miow]

Bump?

[Panzermeyer]

Bummer to see, considering that I just took this on my current life. It seems a bit fun.

Ran EE Lords of Dust Chain last nite, and was surprised to see it landing on a few of the mobs in some fights. (I am a wisdom build without super maxed wisdom). I did not notice the Spell Pen Check.

Could to know to see where I can save SP, as it does cost a bit. But then again it is like a beefed up Finger of Death. So as long as I frog at least two mobs, I have saved myself some SP.

[SirValentine]

A bump, with more information reposted from (elsewhere):

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I did a bunch of testing, on both live and Lama, to try to narrow down the issue with Mass Frog's Spell Penetration check.


It for some reason has a base caster level of 8. A pure Fighter, with no spell related feats, enhancements, past lives, etc., will make a Spell Penetration check at +8 when using Mass Frog.


I confirmed that the following do add to the Spell Penetration caster level check:


Druid Season's Herald Heirophant capstone
Druid Season's Herald & Cleric Divine Disciple Spell Penetration enhancements
Draconic Incarnation & Exalted Angel Piercing Spellcraft, & Fatesinger Echoes of the Ancestors: Magister Epic Destiny enhancements
Arcane Sanctum guild ship buff
Spell Penetration feat
Greater Spell Penetration feat
Epic Spell Penetration feat
Wizard & FvS past lives


(This is where the 26 I'm seeing comes from: 8 base + 9 past lives + 2 feat + 3 enhancement + 3 epic destiny + 1 ship buff = 26.)


I confirmed these do NOT add to the check:


Spell Penetration items
Druid or Cleric base caster level or caster level boosts from Epic Destinies


Having items not work is a handicap of up to 7 points; under other circumstances, that's a noticeable difference.


But having a flat value of 8 instead of a caster level of 25 is HUGE, and the main reason Mass Frog is not usable against mobs with Spell Resistance.

[Miow]

Le sigh has it ever been confirmed by a dev as a bug i'm starting to wonder.

[SirValentine]

It for some reason has a base caster level of 8.

So thinking about this some more, what else is 8? Number of Epic levels.

Did someone forget to add the "20" so it would be based off character level?

That's my current theory, that it's caster level is supposed to be your character level, but they forgot the +20, so it's 8 instead of 28.

I confirmed these do NOT add to the check:

Spell Penetration items

Plus this bug.

[SirValentine]

So thinking about this some more, what else is 8? Number of Epic levels.

Did someone forget to add the "20" so it would be based off character level?

That's my current theory, that it's caster level is supposed to be your character level, but they forgot the +20, so it's 8 instead of 28.

Confirming my previous testing and previous theory, Mass Frog's Spell Penetration is still broken. I'm getting a base of 10 at level 30, i.e., number of Epic levels instead of character level, and spell pen items are still not helping.

I'm showing 39 (10 levels, 9 PLs, 8 feats, 8 ED/twists, 3 enhancements, 1 guild), and that just isn't going to cut it.

[JOTMON]

may need to change it from Mass Frog to Mass Crickets...
3 years and still no Dev response... crickets.......

[SirValentine]

This crippling bug in an Epic-level ability is still on-going 6 years later. Can we up the priority on this a little bit, please, devs?

[Sam-u-r-eye]

lolz

[Komradkillingmachine]

this crippling bug in an epic-level ability is still on-going 6 years later. Can we up the priority on this a little bit, please, devs?

just.wow.

Am speechless.