State of Melee Focused Clerics?

[wtorchia]

What feats did you have on him wtorchia?

Metas:
Maximise
Empower heal

Melee:
THF
ITHF
GTHF
PA
Cleave
Greater Cleave
IC : Slashing
Overwhelming crit

DPS gear:
Head: EH black dragon helm (8 con)
Goggles: GS Con op SP item
Bracers: 20% HA, +4 saves (can't remember name)
Ring 1: Ring of the stalker( 200 SP, some stat gem)
Ring 2: 106 pos ring
belt: GS smoke HP item
Neck : EE Jorga (stat gems)
Gloves: Purple dragon
trinket: Melee focus
Boots: Epic boots of corrosion
Armor : Black (epic) or red dragon (Corm) full plate
Wep: Cleaver, Hewer of Suffering

In legendary dreadnoghnt full masters blitz stacks I was seeing crits with Cleaver, Hewer of Suffering (tier 3) in the 4k + range. Mind you this was soloing so I could get the full stacks going. When I was in a group I just not count on the masters blitz at all. I would see 1k+ crits often. I was sitting at 600+ HP and 1800 + SP. I still healed EH raids just fine.

With the the half orc PA and THF damage lines the build just hits HARD for a BC. I tried out a 8 fighter, 2 monk 10 cleric with my + 20 LR before I TRd. Made the build WAY worse. I hit harder and critted more, but I was more squishy without my aura and PRR from full plate armor.

[sirgog]

Metas:
Maximise
Empower heal

Melee:
THF
ITHF
GTHF
PA
Cleave
Greater Cleave
IC : Slashing
Overwhelming crit

DPS gear:
Head: EH black dragon helm (8 con)
Goggles: GS Con op SP item
Bracers: 20% HA, +4 saves (can't remember name)
Ring 1: Ring of the stalker( 200 SP, some stat gem)
Ring 2: 106 pos ring
belt: GS smoke HP item
Neck : EE Jorga (stat gems)
Gloves: Purple dragon
trinket: Melee focus
Boots: Epic boots of corrosion
Armor : Black (epic) or red dragon (Corm) full plate
Wep: Cleaver, Hewer of Suffering

In legendary dreadnoghnt full masters blitz stacks I was seeing crits with Cleaver, Hewer of Suffering (tier 3) in the 4k + range. Mind you this was soloing so I could get the full stacks going. When I was in a group I just not count on the masters blitz at all. I would see 1k+ crits often. I was sitting at 600+ HP and 1800 + SP. I still healed EH raids just fine.

With the the half orc PA and THF damage lines the build just hits HARD for a BC. I tried out a 8 fighter, 2 monk 10 cleric with my + 20 LR before I TRd. Made the build WAY worse. I hit harder and critted more, but I was more squishy without my aura and PRR from full plate armor.

Yeah I don't think deep splashes get returns. You want to be able to go full healbot when that is what the situation calls for, which you can do well with 17 Clr levels and acceptably for a short time with 12. For this reason I intend to stay deep in Radiant Servant (keeping the Aura) even though that means no tier 5 melee enhancements. (Sorry, permanent Divine Power with the not insignificant DPS boost of never having to spend 700ms recasting that spell and unable to swing a weapon every 2 minutes).

[Panzermeyer]

Goggles: GS Con op SP item
Bracers: 20% HA, +4 saves (can't remember name)
Ring 1: Ring of the stalker( 200 SP, some stat gem)
Ring 2: 106 pos ring

I thought an SP Power Augment doesn't stack with the bonuses of a GS item?

[sirgog]

What feats did you have on him wtorchia?

There really isn't much choice in the matter if you have Human - Clr17/Pal2/Ftr1 as your framework.

Feats - Heroic (7 baseline, 1 human, 1 Ftr):
THF chain (3)
Cleave chain (3) - PA, Cleave, GC
Imp Crit
Empower Heal (Maximize does not work on aura so this is better)
Quicken

21 - Devastating Critical

24 - A bit flexible, probably Maximize

26-28: Will leave these to people more familiar with the destiny feats, I've not been playing my divine enough to cap yet.

[wtorchia]

There really isn't much choice in the matter if you have Human - Clr17/Pal2/Ftr1 as your framework.

Feats - Heroic (7 baseline, 1 human, 1 Ftr):
THF chain (3)
Cleave chain (3) - PA, Cleave, GC
Imp Crit
Empower Heal (Maximize does not work on aura so this is better)
Quicken

21 - Devastating Critical

24 - A bit flexible, probably Maximize

26-28: Will leave these to people more familiar with the destiny feats, I've not been playing my divine enough to cap yet.

I ran with out quicken just fine. I was not really casting spells often though.

[wtorchia]

I thought an SP Power Augment doesn't stack with the bonuses of a GS item?

They do. Same with the GS HP and other HP stuff

[sirgog]

I ran with out quicken just fine. I was not really casting spells often though.

I consider Quicken essential.

You can't even self-heal from SP without it a lot of the time, let alone heal the party.

For that matter, it cuts 350ms off the cast time of Divine Power and Divine Favor (and any other spells you cast in combat like perhaps Divine Punishment), which is roughly a 0.6% DPS increase in prolonged fights if you cast the two buffs once per two minutes.

But mostly, the reason you play a melee divine rather than a focused melee is because, when things go wrong, you can seemlessly transition into a fountain of healing, turning a wipe into a recovery. Without Quicken, you have to drop any aggro you have and run away from the front lines before you can do that.



Finally Quicken is a prerequisite to using Mass Heal, which while not as important as it was at the 20 cap, is still a key tool in your arsenal and something you will cast fairly often.

[PNellesen]

24 - A bit flexible, probably Maximize

A guildie of mine (thanks, Atremus!) suggested "Enlarge" if you intend to do any kind of "healbotting" at all - I tried it on my Horc and I have to say it definitely makes it easier to heal things like FoT, where people get spread out all over a big area. Enlarge also applies to Renewal (and I THINK to Burst as well), which is pretty nice.

[wtorchia]

I consider Quicken essential.

You can't even self-heal from SP without it a lot of the time, let alone heal the party.

For that matter, it cuts 350ms off the cast time of Divine Power and Divine Favor (and any other spells you cast in combat like perhaps Divine Punishment), which is roughly a 0.6% DPS increase in prolonged fights if you cast the two buffs once per two minutes.

But mostly, the reason you play a melee divine rather than a focused melee is because, when things go wrong, you can seemlessly transition into a fountain of healing, turning a wipe into a recovery. Without Quicken, you have to drop any aggro you have and run away from the front lines before you can do that.



Finally Quicken is a prerequisite to using Mass Heal, which while not as important as it was at the 20 cap, is still a key tool in your arsenal and something you will cast fairly often.

I agree that when the cap was 20 quicken was needed. I just did not find my self casting Mass Heal very often. Between my aura, burst and mass cure crit it was just not needed. It got to the point that I was looking at a 16 cleric build. I just never cast the lvl 9 spells.

The other big thing is play style. In a PUG situation I would switch to Exalted Angel or Unyielding Sentinel for more SP or HP. I would also swap my gear some to the Amaunator's Blessing set to stretch SP and play a more heal bot roll. At least for the first few fights to get a guage the party. I could still use cleaver just fine, just not to its full potential.

Basically I had multiple modes between EDs, twists, and gear.

1) Legendary Dreadnought with Piercing Clarity, Endless turning, and Hail of Blows. With max DPS gear
Max personal DPS. Low SP pool (1600 or so) but lots of turns (16 I think). Used mostly for soloing.

2) Legendary Dreadnought with Piercing Clarity, Endless turning, and Endless faith. With max DPS gear
Slightly lower DPS. Better SP pool (1800 or so) same amount of turns. Used for groups where I was the 2nd healer.

3) Exalted Angel with Endless turning, Improved Power Attack and Healing hands. With mixed DPS gear
Lower DPS, but still able to solo heal EH and some EE content

4) Exalted Angel with Endless turning, Fey Form: and Healing hands. With full healing gear
Low DPS full heal bot mode with deepest SP pool possible. Main healing a raid. Relied on scroll healing some what.

5) Unyielding Sentinel with Healing power, Endless faith, and Purity of essence. With full healing gear.
Low DPS, slightly lower SP, but a HUGE jump in HP. I hardly used this set up, but it is an interesting one that I played around with. It maximizes the free healing that the 17/2/1 split gives you. By taking light the dark and the LOH regen stuff you get 2 independent sources of free healing. One based on tuns and one based on LOH. This set up felt like it would be better for a sword and board type BC.

The key to all of this is figuring out my roll in a group. I was always looking to fill in the spots that where lacking. That is the main strength of the Cleric class. You can be ANY roll.

[Panzermeyer]

I agree that when the cap was 20 quicken was needed. I just did not find my self casting Mass Heal very often. Between my aura, burst and mass cure crit it was just not needed. It got to the point that I was looking at a 16 cleric build. I just never cast the lvl 9 spells.

So out of curiosity how are you liking the caster route?

I am just looking for opinions and information.

I am definitely getting down with the TR grind and just looking for a few more cleric lives to improve my turning ability for some of the Drow quests and possibility some effectiveness in Wheloon.

I was thinking about this battle build as I am having some fun with my last build which is using a greataxe with cleave and great cleave, but lacks the THF feats.

So your ideas where interesting to me, but the other build I was thinking of was this TWF pure cleric build.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...F-Cleric-Build

I just realized this last night that I am not sure I want to grind out THF and TWF gear. So I might want to just decide on one path. The THF definitely seems to be the more fighter route, with less casting.

My Toon has 3 wizzy and 3 sorc past lives, and it seems a bit of a waste to let those lives go if I am not going to have some casting abilities in addition to my combat abilities. So the TWF build is interesting to me, though I like would either go Half-Elf with Fighter dilly or just a 19 C/1F for the martial feats. I honestly don't think I would have the patience for scroll casting Master's touch.

The phally splash to shore up saves does sound interesting though. I know other than will saves, the saves of clerics are not that spectacular. Going CHA focused to get more turns, better undead turning, with a 2 phally splash would certainly help saves a great deal.

So I remain on the fence. =)

I will likely still try both builds just to see which I like better. Having only one cleric past live, I could just suck it up and do one life THF, then one life TWF see which I like better, grind for gear and do a final TR into the build that I like best.

[wtorchia]

So out of curiosity how are you liking the caster route?

I am just looking for opinions and information.

I am definitely getting down with the TR grind and just looking for a few more cleric lives to improve my turning ability for some of the Drow quests and possibility some effectiveness in Wheloon.

I was thinking about this battle build as I am having some fun with my last build which is using a greataxe with cleave and great cleave, but lacks the THF feats.

So your ideas where interesting to me, but the other build I was thinking of was this TWF pure cleric build.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...F-Cleric-Build

I just realized this last night that I am not sure I want to grind out THF and TWF gear. So I might want to just decide on one path. The THF definitely seems to be the more fighter route, with less casting.

My Toon has 3 wizzy and 3 sorc past lives, and it seems a bit of a waste to let those lives go if I am not going to have some casting abilities in addition to my combat abilities. So the TWF build is interesting to me, though I like would either go Half-Elf with Fighter dilly or just a 19 C/1F for the martial feats. I honestly don't think I would have the patience for scroll casting Master's touch.

The phally splash to shore up saves does sound interesting though. I know other than will saves, the saves of clerics are not that spectacular. Going CHA focused to get more turns, better undead turning, with a 2 phally splash would certainly help saves a great deal.

So I remain on the fence. =)

I will likely still try both builds just to see which I like better. Having only one cleric past live, I could just suck it up and do one life THF, then one life TWF see which I like better, grind for gear and do a final TR into the build that I like best.

Few things to be said before I give my opinion.

1) This is my main. I do not have any alts that I play
2) I solo a LOT. I have a guild that is just me.
3) This is my 3rd life for this char. They have all been cleric so far.

With that said, my fist life was a pure heal bot cleric. I got bored back when the cap was 20 and TRd into the BC build we are talking about. I played him that way for about a year. I loved the play style. I ground out all of the high end melee gear. As I started to close in on what my max melee DPS could be I just kept feeling like I was cutting the class short. I had 17 level of cleric and I was only casting buffs and heals. That is when I started playing around with the min amount of cleric that I could take in a BC build. After messing around with it all I found that I just had basically made a Paladin that could raid heal with lower DPS. Mind you I LIKED it, but again I felt I was cutting the cleric side short.

I just hit 18 on my 3rd life. The plan this life is to hit 28 as a pure caster. This is my 2nd time through heroic on a caster cleric. I have not done Epic as a caster yet, so it is hard to say how it will go. I am going with a necro cleric. So far I am liking it, I just miss my melee stuff. I may LR and pick up a weapon feet other then long sword. I have 2 x Celestia, Brightest Star of Day, and 1 of most of the other 1 hand weps sitting in my stash. It may be worth the 3-4 feats at later levels. Right now at 18 as a human I have:

Maximise
Quicken
Empower
Empower Heal
Highten
Mental toughness
Necro focus
Greater necro focus

I could easily drop empower and Greater necro to pickup TWF and ITFW (maybe IC). Then just use scrolls for prof for now. I can then pickup the rest at latter levels.

[Panzermeyer]

Thanks for the info.

I think I am gonna do the 3 more Cleric lives.

I do a big mix of solo and group stuff.

I get enough gear to make each build work through early epics. And make my decision after having played both a bit.

Just getting a little tired of dragging a bunch of gear around from life to life to want to get more gear to drag around from life to life =)