Provide evidence of a correlation between the 2049 instance and lag or shut up

[kwyjibo_lol]

That's not evidence on its own.

When you DO NOT lag, do you /loc every time? Why does it matter? Because if 90% of the time you are in instance i2049 then 90% of the problems shoudl be in that instance too. It's only if you are in there for 50% of the quests and lag 90% of the time that there is evidence of a problem.

After all, when my car stalls I have noticed that 99.99% of the time my key is in the ignition. So my key is causing stalling, right?

You are right to a degree, but only if the accusers of i2049 are saying all other i values are better because of the high number of lag observations. We don't have access to the server data, but can share our experiences on what is more likely to produce the worst performance, even if the average is the same. Most aren't too concerned with average performance, but are highly critical of when it is bad. That is the reasoning!

[Ilindith]

After all, when my car stalls I have noticed that 99.99% of the time my key is in the ignition. So my key is causing stalling, right?

When I lag, it's usually in one of those instances. When I recall and reset, which clears the lag, I /loc and notice I am no longer in those instances.

I am merely contributing my observations. You are free to conclude whatever you want from them, but I don't think mockery was necessary.

[Missing_Minds]

After all, when my car stalls I have noticed that 99.99% of the time my key is in the ignition. So my key is causing stalling, right?

It is because you are getting vanilla ice cream. Get cookies'n cream or some other flavor.
http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/icecream.asp

[Doktr_Strangelove]

In short:

Any instance can lag. i2049 is not the cause nor has it ever been. Devs confirmed Zombie physics from the Future is the cause of the unplayable lag.

This point actually makes sense to me since it seems consistent to when I've experienced crippling lag wipes in CITW (spider and drow spawns) and FoT (initial drop activating everything and spawns). However, it seems by some of the logic that people have used in this thread that this dev explanation cannot be valid because how are we supposed to trust them, or anything beyond our own point of view? I think it's a pinkeye epidemic.

[Doktr_Strangelove]

The hypothesis was never that i2049 was the cause of the lag. The hypothesis was that lag was localized to a given instance, and therefore, switching to less-used instances would decrease the likelihood of getting hit by lag. It's not that it's the cause, it's that by doing so you can reduce your exposure to the symptoms. As players it doesn't directly matter to us what the cause is, we just don't want to get hit with the effects.

This also makes sense to me too since it's all about sharing resources and sometimes there is just not enough to go around. I've noticed that if we are to have a crippling lag wipe during zombie spawn it also correlates to time of day, usually our first run of the evening which for me is around 5:30PST. I actually think it's great that other groups want to help my buddy Madmatt70's raid runs by getting out of our 2049 instance to make it that much smoother, thanks! Clean off those blood stained gauntlets and keep your fingers out of your face, I hear there's a pinkeye epidemic going around.

[Doktr_Strangelove]

Oh look! Epic Elite Fall of Truth in i2049. I guess I didn't get a look at the death count but someone said it was around 25 and it took us about 51 mins so pretty good run I'd say. No Draconic Soul Gem for anyone though

[Niv-mizzet]

Even if I don't believe that those instances cause lag I would still reset it for people just so they feel more comfortable but im weird like that. The emperor is just a corpse on a golden throne but if your prayers make you fight harder then im all for it, just hope no pesky mind witch reads my thoughts and reports me .

HERESY! Also +1 for 40k analogy.

[smatt]

I'm glad there are so many smart people around here!

[HungarianRhapsody]

That's not evidence on its own.

When you DO NOT lag, do you /loc every time? Why does it matter? Because if 90% of the time you are in instance i2049 then 90% of the problems shoudl be in that instance too. It's only if you are in there for 50% of the quests and lag 90% of the time that there is evidence of a problem.

After all, when my car stalls I have noticed that 99.99% of the time my key is in the ignition. So my key is causing stalling, right?

I /loc occasionally because I'm curious to see what the instance is. I actually did wonder whether some instances were more common than others. I came up with a 2049 or 2050 instance less than 10% of the time. I haven't done that in about a year, so it's certainly possible that the amount of time that I spend in 2049ville is different than it once was.

When I /loc to see where I am after I start to experience crippling lag, I am in the greater 2049 metropolitan area well over 3/4 of the time.

If my key is in the ignition an overwhelming majority of the time that my car stalls, it doesn't mean that the one is the cause of the other, but it certainly does indicate a relationship. If you get out of your car and get into another one that no longer stalls and you are 100% unable to do any maintenance or repairs on your car because you don't have access to the engine, then do you really care what the specific source of the problem is?

[NaturalHazard]

I /loc occasionally because I'm curious to see what the instance is. I actually did wonder whether some instances were more common than others. I came up with a 2049 or 2050 instance less than 10% of the time. I haven't done that in about a year, so it's certainly possible that the amount of time that I spend in 2049ville is different than it once was.

When I /loc to see where I am after I start to experience crippling lag, I am in the greater 2049 metropolitan area well over 3/4 of the time.

If my key is in the ignition an overwhelming majority of the time that my car stalls, it doesn't mean that the one is the cause of the other, but it certainly does indicate a relationship. If you get out of your car and get into another one that no longer stalls and you are 100% unable to do any maintenance or repairs on your car because you don't have access to the engine, then do you really care what the specific source of the problem is?

So........ hot wire the car so the key is no longer in the ignition so hopefully it wont stall?

Sorry im just being an ass.

[Machination]

Oh look! Epic Elite Fall of Truth in i2049. I guess I didn't get a look at the death count but someone said it was around 25 and it took us about 51 mins so pretty good run I'd say. No Draconic Soul Gem for anyone though

Well if you did not get the Soul Gem, you should probably think about blaming the instance

[WiseFreelancer]

I have read some (more) compelling analysis that suggested the lag spikes are mostly caused by insta-spawned monster aggro, but is affecting the entire instance location, not just that quest. This would explain why CitW has such a bad lag history (so many insta-spawns) and also why i2049 is worse than others: not because its naturally more prone to lag, but there are more people playing there at any one time so one group is more likely to trigger it for the rest. It explains horrific spikes in public spaces too.

Don't have a link to hand, but I find the evidence compelling, and Maj's post doesn't invalidate it.

[NancyD]

Well if you did not get the Soul Gem, you should probably think about blaming the instance

This is funny.

Also, Art, there would have been more deaths if you hadn't had that extra scroll stack. For someone who amusingly claims to be a ___, in fact you are often quite the opposite. That's my favorite move so far in an ee FOT -- that was the fastest ("help" to [trade window opened]) fix around. Adapt, improvise, survive. [Like half our guild is posting suddenly in Khyber market, ***. I'm gonna go join Cay's thread. :P]

/MaddMatt50

[9Crows]

Players proving or disproving the theory of what causes a player-harming problem and then making this information part of the public record is essential to the eventual fix.

Turbine's past practice with issues that harm the player experience has been to:

0) say nothing when the issue is discussed
1) after prodding, deny it's existence
2) obliquely acknowledge its existence after the problem has been exhaustively documented multiple times
3) After prodding, assert that it is being studied
4) After more prodding, assert that the problem is more complicated than it looked at first
5) After Rodrak publishes the cause of the problem and the steps needed to fix it, do nothing
5.5) Optional - Ban Rodrak
6) do nothing
7) Tell the players that they've fixed the problem in the development environment
8) eventually fix the problem on the live servers. Maybe.

Turbine may not be thorough in testing or in version control or in using a spell checker, but they are very very thorough about not skipping any element in this list.

It's their established culture and won't change any time Soon™

a quote from another site ...seemed to sum things up particulaly well

[Kalatai]

I do not believe in instance specific lag, however, I do believe in client/server/memory leak related lag. It's been confirmed about it not being instance based

Somewhat old here: remember in shroud when everyone stopped taking damage, then one person DCs and half the melees die? Do the servers wait on individual clients to allow the rest of the clients to keep going?

When CitW was fairly new, lag was hit and miss. However, if everyone reset their clients beforehand, we had no lag issues on any of those runs.

Ultimately, it's a problem that exists and should be fixed, as I know many have left over this as it is game-breaking for many.

[NancyD]

I know many have left over this as it is game-breaking for many.

Which is sad.

I think of lag as an interesting challenge where I have to anticipate what is going to happen over the next 5 seconds. It's fun to try to geek out accurately with the lag, and every now and then I get it right.

Of course, for pure unadulterated geeking, I recommend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUbp_d2DkYU

Lag is the poor gamer's substitute. Oh and also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUPu_ipbVB0 So turn up the music and let's try to live through the lag.

[Dark_Helmet]

Why would anyone want to reply since you will just ignore them? You already made up your mind on a lot of things.

Okay, I will bite:
Running OOB. At the FIRST DOOR, the entire party gets hit with crippling lag that you can't move for 15 seconds at a time (this just "happens" to be 2049). I did the usual checks: Ping rate is within tolerances (98ms to their handoff), network icon doesn't show a high latency / Bps and 0.0% loss, frame rate is 140, client was only use 1.6GB of memory, plenty of bandwidth (after 2 minutes of no action, I kicked in a high dev movie stream to check hiccups and it never lost a packet), others in guild weren't having issues, - even asked party members if someone had DCed during that timeframe and no one said yes. The lag was so bad for each and every party member that we all had issues recalling. Most had to relog/restart clients (stuck in splash screen). I actually waited it out and it recalled after 3 minutes. We healed up and ran 2 times with the exact same party and never had that same exact lag. Then, ran it solo for 4 runs and never saw that lag again. I randomly checked with /loc and never saw 2049.

As for believing what a "dev" says, we have had times when they were mistaken (where is that summary that he "promised"?)

It really is hard to believe that it isn't related since the only time I see lag on the boat is when it is in 2049 as well? It is hanging out in 677 right now and I parked a toon. I haven't see boat lag... for days.


Yes, people will only believe what they see, but maybe you need to be more tolerant of others since it is a coping mechanism to an issue they haven't explained - not to mention fixed.

[NaturalHazard]

W but maybe you need to be more tolerant of others s.

You are aware that this is khyber right?

[fink2008]

I've had enough personal experiences as well as read/heard enough anecdotal evidence for years now about 2049 lagging. The only people capable of giving absolute scientific proof/analysis in regards to this would be Turbine employees, who say very little about i2049 despite bleeding customers due to the issues that frequently occur on this server.

If you want to think it's a myth that's fine, but asking people to shut up about it is a stretch of the imagination I would think. Either way I have no problems questing with someone that refuses to reset when the group pulls 2049, everyone has to learn sometime.

[Gkar]

I run about 100 raids or EE quests per week. The only instance that I experience lag in is 2049i.

And how many of those raids take place in 2049i?