New playing self-sufficient melee build advice

[dyas2009]

Hi all,

I was introduced to DDO a month ago and with no inkling to DD rules and such, I created what I'd hoped would be a fairly noob friendly and effective character (vanguard fighter). As of today, I am lvl 17 and it has worked quite well as a character to learn the game, however I find myself completely unable (or unknowing how) to BYOH, which is mostly required by the groups in my lvl range. I have been playing with two friends most of the time, all of us fairly new, so we have had hirelings every time. I have been told that for a pure fighter, using lots of pots is the way, but I find it prohibitively expensive at this point.

My goal is to reach 20 soon, to TR, and was hoping to receive input on which melee builds can achieve a degree of self-sufficiency with either UMD or spellpoints.

I have scoured the boards, but it seems most related threads point to some sort of divine/arcane build as the best self sufficients. I am hoping to remain fighter, or to try a paladin next.

As a note, I do have VIP features, and plan on getting a +3 supreme tome for my toon before TR.

Thank you in advance!

[Lonnbeimnech]

either
1. be a monk
2. be a favored soul

[Elibolas]

Oh there are plenty of ways to BYOH as a melee.

Druid, Pally, Tempest (Exploiter) , and Bardbarian also all work.

If you love fighters, and are not necearrily going to stay at level 20, splash a level or two of rogue or arty and pump UMD to max.

-- Eli Bolas

[MnaSidhe]

Battle cleric is good! Start 1L Fighter then 12 levels Cleric (radiant servant II) then the rest in fighter. The Aura is a great form of self healing, fom and death ward are great Buffs. No need for UMD for raise scrolls or healing.

You can play it like a fighter... divine power for those times when every "to hit" matters...
My last life was based on this... and it worked a charm!

[Inouk]

I was a WF fighter last life, same issue. My answer this life was to go tempest II / Kensei I (12/8) for self healing, evasion, ranged damage, and I still do just as much damage (or maybe more) in melee. I would have gone for 14/6 split to get cure serious wounds / FOM but just couldn't skip the extra feat as there are already 2 more I wish I could take. My healing is adequate to heal between fights but is suboptimal for in combat healing.

But there are a TON of options. Melee FvS, battle cleric (as mentioned), warchanter, one of many paladin builds for DPS. The Dire Dreadnought Defender and the Axehead are more melee oriented relying on SF pots and UMD for healing (which is a tough route frankly, but better as a pure build for tanking role)

[skaught78]

Welcome to the game!

I'm still pretty new myself. Been playing for about 6 months or so. I also prefer to play a fighter, and found the same problem. Heres what I have come up with.

Ahem...

Fighters inherently suck at self heals. Thats their weakness. Like someone said above, you could throw a couple levels of rogue into the build and use some skill pt to pump up UMD (Use magic device). This will allow you to use wands and some scrolls that can heal, or self buff. At pretty low levels, you will be able to use a shield wand for a little added AC. If you have two levels of rogue, that will grant you the evasion feat, but you will always have to use light armor to get the benefit of using evade. My current toon is a 34 pt build 2 rogue/16 fighter. I have been very happy with the benefit of evade. Combine that with a high DEX for max dex bonus and its not so bad wearing light armor. Your next choice will be to put a few pts in CON or INT. I really struggled with this, and have even Lesser reincarnated TWICE to try and play with it. But I eventually went with CON, though I wish I could go back and stick with the INT, or split it more evenly. But I'm not gonna pay to LR yet again just to TR in two more levels.
When you level up, put as many pts in UMD as it will allow you to, especially when you level as a rogue. Then go balance, jump, and whatever you want after that.
The price you will pay still stinks, but if you stay on top of your max lvl equipment for Haggling items, and CHA boosting items, and buy your pots nd wands from guild vendors, you can bring the prices down considerably. You can also take the rogue skill boost and use that right before buying something to give yourself a haggle boost, though I dont recommend taking that as its not as good as other enhancements you could take as a fighter.

I roughly followed the following build for my toon with a few tweaks and have been very happy with it:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Reformed_Thief

[boredman]

Light monk is the easiest self sufficient meele dps you can do if dont have too much experience yet.

Other self sufficient meele builds you can do is the battle cleric (or clonk), battle fvs, a meele druid splash, a meele bard, a paladin or a ranger, but they need more gear and experience to have both good damage output(dps) and self sufficiency.

The other possibility you have is to make a fighter or rogue or dark monk or another meele dps focused class splash that can use umd skill for heal scrolls but require some gear too to achieve that. Or a barbarian with silver flame potions but that is expensive.

Saying that, my suggestion is go with a light monk as first option, a meele druid splash (druid/fighter or monk for example) for second option, or a battle favored soul as a third option.

[Pilgrim1]

12 fighter/8 bard might work for you

[Purkilius]

If you want to be a pure fighter again you can be a Half-elf with 13 in wisdom then you can take the cleric dilettante and will be able to use wands at low levels and eventually Heal scrolls.

But having to change from weapon to heal scroll and then to weapon again is not the same as having heal spells an evasive paladin with either 2 monk or 2 rogue levels is a great way to get to know the game. He will not do the same dmg as a pure fighter but will often be the last man standing...

[Nephilia]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 16 Bard) 
Hit Points: 290
Spell Points: 450 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 12
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    23
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         15                    16
Intelligence         14                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             12                    12

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                    22
Bluff                 5                     5
Concentration         4                    26
Diplomacy             1                     1
Disable Device        6                    25
Haggle                5                     5
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            1                     5
Jump                  7                    10
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         2                     2
Open Lock             3                     7
Perform               n/a                  24
Repair                2                     2
Search                6                    25
Spot                  3                     3
Swim                  3                     6
Tumble                0                     0
Use Magic Device      5                    24

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)


Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+4)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+3)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+6)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 19 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

This is a 28 point human bard trapmonkey able to self heal and good dps.
It could get advantage of tomes but they're not required anyway and it's ready to take overwhelming critical at lv 21 for even more dps.
Surely u'll not output the same amount of damage as a Shield&Bash fighter or a barbarian Half-orc could but u'll be very resistent with all the nice stuffs u have while enjoy a very fun build to play ^^

And with a 34 points build u can raise your cos and str a little bit more ^^

[Munkenmo]

there's quite a few acceptable suggestions in this thread regarding byoh.

The key things you need to effectively be able to heal yourself as a melee are the following

- 39 umd to no fail heal scrolls, realistically for a new toon, this means you're going to need to have a splash in rogue, artificer or bard to get full ranks in umd.

- half elf with cleric (or to a lesser degree favored soul) dilettante feat, to use heal scrolls at about 90%

- blue bar healing, this would generally mean investing in ~12 levels of druid, bard, paladin, ranger, cleric, or favored soul.

- Ki based healing, with 7 levels of monk, you could get access to fists of light, mediate, and 2 tiers of monk healing amp.

- serious investment in healing amp, either human, or half elf with monk dilletante would essentially be required.

- acquiring 400 silver flame favor, to be able to purchase lesser potions that heals you for 100, or greater potions that heals for 250 (these both reduce all your stats by 10 for 30 seconds though)

These options allow for a huge diversity of builds, and which way you'd like to go, comes entirely down to personal preference.

[Dendrix]

Be a paladin for self healing and lots of other goodies

[Aurora1979]

As said before there's lots of good routes to go for a self sufficent melee.

Personally I would recommend a Bard build, you can find ones with heavy fighter splashes if you wish to.

There offer good self sufficeney. Good melee, you probably won't be top melee but you will hold your own and only be a swpie or two behind.

You can also get into lots of groups with little responsibility other then buffs. That can help you learn a lot of quests if you decided too.

As I say you will be a little slower killing things but you will be very steady. If you splash rogue in too for evasion you will be very tough to kill.

[cdr]

A 20 fighter Stalwart Defender with daxe+shield is probably the most soloable/self-sufficient melee build for endgame currently. It can solo Epic Elites that almost all other melee builds would not be able to handle.

It is gear dependent, though, and does rely on Silver Flame pots for healing.

[Sarzor]

A 20 fighter Stalwart Defender with daxe+shield is probably the most soloable/self-sufficient melee build for endgame currently. It can solo Epic Elites that almost all other melee builds would not be able to handle.

It is gear dependent, though, and does rely on Silver Flame pots for healing.

I think anything relying on SF pots is not new-player-friendly. At the earliest you could get them would be level 16, and that is with doing Necro I-IV (minus Abbott) as well as several of the random other Silver Flame quests on elite. If I remember correctly everything level 14 or below, excepting the Abbott raid itself and including the non-Necro quests is 399 favor, so you'd need the first lords of dust quest to break 400 favor. That is a very long time for a new player to wait to get real self-healing. And that is assuming they are VIP and own the Necro packs, as well as they can find a group to do Necro II and III on elite. It is very easy to get discouraged in this game, especially since so many of the LFMs specify BYOH. For this reason I strongly recommend a build which has spell-casting healing abilities, whether it be a ranger/bard/cleric/fvs or a WF arcane. The ability to heal oneself "cheap" is I think crucial to maintaining interest in the game.

Many of the other suggestions are quite good, and I'd also like to suggest the evasion paladin as an option.

[cdr]

I think anything relying on SF pots is not new-player-friendly. At the earliest you could get them would be level 16, and that is with doing Necro I-IV (minus Abbott) as well as several of the random other Silver Flame quests on elite. If I remember correctly everything level 14 or below, excepting the Abbott raid itself and including the non-Necro quests is 399 favor, so you'd need the first lords of dust quest to break 400 favor. That is a very long time for a new player to wait to get real self-healing. And that is assuming they are VIP and own the Necro packs, as well as they can find a group to do Necro II and III on elite. It is very easy to get discouraged in this game, especially since so many of the LFMs specify BYOH. For this reason I strongly recommend a build which has spell-casting healing abilities, whether it be a ranger/bard/cleric/fvs or a WF arcane. The ability to heal oneself "cheap" is I think crucial to maintaining interest in the game.

Many of the other suggestions are quite good, and I'd also like to suggest the evasion paladin as an option.

CSW pots are ML1 and will serve you fine until you get SF pots.

Not to mention you can get SF pots before you TR and cache them.

[Munkenmo]

At the earliest you could get them would be level 16, and that is with doing Necro I-IV (minus Abbott) as well as several of the random other Silver Flame quests on elite. If I remember correctly everything level 14 or below, excepting the Abbott raid itself and including the non-Necro quests is 399 favor, so you'd need the first lords of dust quest to break 400 favor. .

This would be incorrect, You can get 400 silver flame favor without doing the LOD quests, or the ascension raid.

It does involve doing every single other quest on elite, but that's not too difficult when going back at high level specifically seeking favor.

The op even said he has a group of friends he plays with, if working together and reading the wiki, it's quite feasible he could obtain sf pots.

(personally i'd skip tomb of tormented, and run an LOD quest instead)

[squishwizzy]

I've got a first life AA and a second-life pally. Between the two, I honsetly feel that the AA is actually better at self-healing than the pally. Maybe it is because of the pally's HP pool (larger) or because the pally has such crappy healing spells for being a divine-based character (with the exception of LoH), I'm not sure which. The AA, however, seems to have quicker heals with the same amount of healing amp, and takes a little less damage due to evasion.

Granted, this is simply my impression.

I know, I know: Lay on Hands is one of the most powerful healing abilities in the game. However, I find that because I have a greatly limited number of them between shrines (it gets a little better past lvl 10), I tend to only use them in real desperate situations. In many cases, I don't use them at all between shrines mainly for this reason.

[Wipey]

Whatever you decide to do, blue bar healing from pally, ranger, umd route with bard, rogue or arty splash, you should spend some time at cap making greensteel ( 6 charisma skills, concordant opposition, weapons or whatever works for you ) and perhaps even knock out 20 Demon Queen completions for Torc and/or some ToDs before you TR.
At least +6 charisma skill item for swap.
It will make your TR super enjoyable.

Imagine something like human ranger with Torc, conc opp greensteel and Levik's bracers and pair of Lit2 khops at level 13.

[count_spicoli]

Hey dyas. Sounds like you are gettong excited about your upcoming first tr which is always a fun thing. Mh first char was a ftr and he was not very good at all. But kept hi at 20 for quite some time and really geared him for his tr life.i would strongly suggest getting at least a couple shroud items maybe hp and a weapon or 2 first for your tr life. Yoh get these at level 11 for item and 12 for weapon and make the experience so much better.

As far as build i loved my kensaii helf ftr with fvs dilly. I chose fvs because you will star cha at 13 which will help yourintim and umd if you decide to utilize that. You will get wands and pots to spam out the gate and at level 15 will get 85% heal scroll use. I recommend twf on ftr myself because of the 4 tiers of ftr haste combined with human versatility 30% dmg boost.that is alot of quick crazy burst dmg especially with weapons that have alot of effects(i use 2 mins for free feat and acid dmg and dr bypassing) i had 14 action boosts at 21 in dreadnought and with no cooldown on ftr haste for ftrs in dreadnought you will essentially be hasted continously. Anyways that is my thoughts. Good luck and hope ypu enjoy what ever you choose.

Ps had 1000 hp in dreadnought which was nice as well.