Barb shield master?

[fool101]

I would like some help with a concept.

I know that the barb PRE benefits THF and that eSoS is the ****. BUT let's just pretend that an enhancement pass has occurred (PRE's finished) and that I don't want to farm an eSoS. ATM fighter would be the better class I'm sure but I was wondering if there was any synergy with the following setup:

flavor build (mostly) with 18/2 dwarven barb/rogue using D-ax.
Feats:
1ower attack
3:cleave
6:THF
9:improved critical
12:toughness
15: shield mastery
18: improved shield mastery
21: great cleave
24: OC


I have a few questions and just curious about opinions:
Does evasion work with some shields?

Would I be better off with 2 fighter instead of rogue for the whole THF line, vs some UMD and evasion? (if evasion doesn't work with shields then this would be the preferred path anyway)

Maybe it would be better to do 16/2/2 (or 12/6/2) for all the above and hope that a future tier 3 barb PRE is not that cool?

[Missing_Minds]

Does evasion work with some shields?

Yes. I've tried it with large and small. I have not tried a tower.

[shadereaper33]

I'm curious as to the point of using a shield on a barb/rogue build. The 2 rogue levels will give you access to evasion and umd, but you will need to drop rage whenever you want to use a scroll. The two fighter levels would give you heavy armor prof and tower shield prof for free as well as the two additional feats. I just don't see the use of a shield really adding all that much of use to a barbarian though.

[fool101]

I'm curious as to the point of using a shield on a barb/rogue build.

I simply says to myself, "hey I would like to start a barbarian since I don't have one yet but I also would like a S&B toon since I don't have one of those either; why not try combine them". That's the only reason. I have a THF, and a few TWF's, was simply looking for build variety.

[shadereaper33]

I simply says to myself, "hey I would like to start a barbarian since I don't have one yet but I also would like a S&B toon since I don't have one of those either; why not try combine them". That's the only reason. I have a THF, and a few TWF's, was simply looking for build variety.

Fair enough, that's kinda how I ended up with my acrobat. I think you would probably be better off with 2 fighter levels instead of rogue levels for this. More feats, access to heavy armor and tower shields, which leads to more PRR on top of the bard DR.

[unbongwah]

Main problem is S&B is lower DPS than THF, of course; the other is a lack of feats, S&B DPS wants everything a THF build wants plus Shield Mastery & ISM (& maybe Imp Shield Bash). Evasion works fine w/all shields. I agree that two extra feats from ftr (ITHF&GTHF), as well as heavy armor & tower shield prof, is better than rogue (UMD, Evasion, 1d6+3 SA) if the goal here is some sort of DPS hate-tank with high PRR.

Recently I posted a ftr 12 / barb 6 / rog 2 build for someone who wanted a S&B soloer; a loooong time ago I also came up with an S&B Intimitank with that level split, inspired by Batman 9.4 and built around exploiting Imp Uncanny Dodge. Maybe you'll find some ideas you can use, especially now that IUD is on a timer rather than limited uses per rest.

[Kinerd]

If you want S&B just for S&B, I would think you'd go with the THF line instead of the Shield Mastery line. After all, you're not going to be a good tank on a barb even with SM.

In either case I think you'd be better off with human. Even DPS characters benefit from heal amp, you can chain Versatility with either Rogue or Fighter HB depending on which way you go, your extra feat gets you whichever glancing OH weapon you want, dwarves are just ugly.

[shadereaper33]

If you want S&B just for S&B, I would think you'd go with the THF line instead of the Shield Mastery line. After all, you're not going to be a good tank on a barb even with SM.

In either case I think you'd be better off with human. Even DPS characters benefit from heal amp, you can chain Versatility with either Rogue or Fighter HB depending on which way you go, your extra feat gets you whichever glancing OH weapon you want, dwarves are just ugly.

ITHF/GTHF gives 20% glancing blow damage and 6% proc chance for weapon effects on glancing blows, while SM/ISM gives 8% double strike and up to 15 PRR. All in all, if you are going to use a shield, I think SM/ISM are going to be better than ITHF/GTHF.

[unbongwah]

ITHF/GTHF gives 20% glancing blow damage and 6% proc chance for weapon effects on glancing blows, while SM/ISM gives 8% double strike and up to 15 PRR. All in all, if you are going to use a shield, I think SM/ISM are going to be better than ITHF/GTHF.

Whereas I think you want all of the above if you're really trying to max out your S&B DPS - every little bit helps.

BTW, how do barb DR & PRR interact? Do they stack the way they did under the pre-U14 dmg mitigation w/Shield Mastery?

Anyway, just playing with the builder, but here's my idea:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Dwarf Female
(2 Fighter \ 18 Barbarian) 
Hit Points: 356
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 8
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    27
Dexterity            12                    15
Constitution         18                    21
Intelligence          8                    11
Wisdom                8                    11
Charisma              8                    11

Tomes Used
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 4 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Barbarian)


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 7 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Damage Reduction I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Trap Sense I


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 10 (Barbarian)


Level 11 (Barbarian)


Level 12 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Barbarian)


Level 14 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Damage Reduction II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack III
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Barbarian)


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Barbarian)


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Intimidation
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker III
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense III

Epic feats: Overwhelming Critical and either Toughness, Stunning Blow, Imp Sunder, or Precision

[fool101]

Anyway, just playing with the builder, but here's my idea:

Cool thanks for humoring me with that and your other deeper splits. I kinda like those deeper splits you posted. I will have to think about his for a while. Ultimately, I will wait until the enhancement pass to devote serious time into leveling this kind of build but the idea for the concept was along the same lines as your S&B intimitank in utilizing Dwarven Stalwart Defender (when it comes) along with the DPS from barb. So, in reality I am simply jumping the gun on this.

[Kinerd]

ITHF/GTHF gives 20% glancing blow damage and 6% proc chance for weapon effects on glancing blows, while SM/ISM gives 8% double strike and up to 15 PRR. All in all, if you are going to use a shield, I think SM/ISM are going to be better than ITHF/GTHF.

I think you severely underrate GTHF, adding a third glancing blow is very powerful. 15 PRR is relevant if you're wanting to tank, but again a barb is a poor tank no matter what you do. For a DPS, 15 PRR isn't relevant, especially when its impact is reduced due to every DPS wearing real armor now (and why wouldn't they?). That's my only point.

[Daine]

Barbarian enhancements:

Barb extend rage iV (double rage duration)
Barb extra Rage II (+3 rages/rest, ie constant rage, as it should be)
Barb Hardy Rage III (+3 con during rage)
Barb power Rage IV (+4 str, -4ac during rage)
Barb willpower (+3 to will saves during rage)

Barb power attack III (+3 dmg for power attack, ie +8, or for two handed weapons, +16 damage)

Barb frernzied beserker: While raging: diehard, 6% chance for 2H glancing blows to proc extra effects, +1 crit multiplier when ryou roll a natural 19-20

Capstone: 2h weapons get +10%glancing blow, +5% chance to proc extra effects on glancing blows

...It's a lot to give up for a shield and some umd scrolls. For a pure flavour build go crazy, but if you haven't played a barb before I'd say go for a pure experience so then you know the value of your flavour. On a barb a shield is mostly useless because you kill mobs so darn fast. Working as a dwarven barbarian S&B intimitank for the few mobs that need a tank you'll want some nice healing amp which you wont get via any enhancements.

I don't see many positive synergies and it may well end up souring you on the whole madly enjoyable barbarian experience, of course almost everyone with alt-itis has a gimp that they enjoy playing regardless of questions of sensible builds. Good luck.

[Dieterstrife]

Hell go Human, take 2 fighter and use Shield Mastery, ISM, and Improved shield bash. You won't need toughness, so you can take stunning blow in it's place. The other 9 feats are the typical every barb takes them feats: thf, ithf, gthf, pa, cleave, gcleave, oc. Hell, you'd be able to pick up a big axe with those feats and the only thing you'd actually lose over going pure would be the capstone and whatever it is else you get from 19-20. And the whatever you lose from not being a Horc. If you get a good setup of gear, hell you could just stay a barbie basher with a daxe all you want.


....though I just realized you would need the feat for the daxe somewhere.. *boots stunning blow*