Best DPS

[Koseph]

Hey,

After about a year of absence I am playing again and I am looking to TR my pally because he just isn't cutting it. He has no ED started yet so it really doesn't matter what I TR him into. I am looking for suggestions on what the best melee DPS is with some decent survive-ability. He has a fighter past life and is a TWF atm, but isn't really geared too well in general.

Any suggestions? I would love Links to posts and reasoning behind why you think so.

Thanks!

[Koseph]

I guess I should also say I was thinking of doing a 12/6/2 Ftr/Rng/Rog, still a viable build?

[Kinerd]

If you consider Heal scrolls decent survivability, 18 ftr / 2 rog will probably do you fine. I've never been a fan.

If you feel like grinding out 400 Silver Flame favor, any melee has decent survivability.

Otherwise, I would stick with your paladin or test drive a monk. Rangers are about as survivable as paladins but are also pretty much the same DPS. Monks offer better DPS via Stunning, an instant kill, and are powerful against 100 fort targets, but these differences may be less subtle than what you're looking for.

I don't think traditional deep splashes will work out for you, although they are certainly viable. They're more about tweaking DPS than adding survivability. You could try something like a 12 fighter / 8 monk, though.

[Sonos]

If you consider Heal scrolls decent survivability, 18 ftr / 2 rog will probably do you fine. I've never been a fan.

If you feel like grinding out 400 Silver Flame favor, any melee has decent survivability.

Otherwise, I would stick with your paladin or test drive a monk. Rangers are about as survivable as paladins but are also pretty much the same DPS. Monks offer better DPS via Stunning, an instant kill, and are powerful against 100 fort targets, but these differences may be less subtle than what you're looking for.

I don't think traditional deep splashes will work out for you, although they are certainly viable. They're more about tweaking DPS than adding survivability. You could try something like a 12 fighter / 8 monk, though.

qft. Very succinct and straightforward analysis.


My 2cp: Helf Monk or Monk/fiighter, Fighter/monk (as mentioned above) with cleric dillie(with heal scroll ability, you will rarely if ever end up standing next to a spirit binder).

[Ellihor]

Actually i think 12ftr/6rgr/2 rogue human very good: 90% off hand, umd, evasion, power surge, some ranger spells, bow feats. Stay on fury of the wild for good dps and +5 ranger caster lvs.

[Koseph]

So I have talked with a few people who still play from my time and have considered a 12/8 ftr rogue. 8 rogue gives improves uncanny dodge which makes the surviveability when a raid boss turns at least. I am not big on UMD, to be honest. I usually get the silver flame favor in leveling anyways so the pots aren't a problem. Consider this build if you will and tell me what you think.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Soulli 
Level 20 Chaotic Good Half-Orc Male
(12 Fighter \ 8 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 350
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 13
Will: 5

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             18                 25                   30
Dexterity            14                 17                   17
Constitution         16                 19                   19
Intelligence         12                 14                   14
Wisdom                8                  8                    8
Charisma             10                 12                   12

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               6                  7                    7
Bluff                 0                  1                    3
Concentration         3                  4                    6
Diplomacy             0                  1                    3
Disable Device        5                 25                   25
Haggle                4                 17                   17
Heal                 -1                 -1                    1
Hide                  2                  3                    3
Intimidate            0                  1                    3
Jump                  8                 16                   16
Listen               -1                 -1                   -1
Move Silently         2                  3                    3
Open Lock             6                 26                   26
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                  2                    2
Search                5                 25                   25
Spot                 -1                 -1                   -1
Swim                  8                 15                   15
Tumble                6                  7                    7
Use Magic Device      4                 24                   24

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Orc Orc Blood
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense


Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Automatic) Trapmaking
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge (Dodge Bonus)


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Soldier of the Faith


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) IV
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV

-If I end up not questing much I will probably drop the stun line for assassin 1.
-I don't go 20 str because really the 1 extra str mod isn't that big of a jump in DPS even if it helps my stun a little. Maybe end game I could lesser to get the str mod back if I really want it.
-I chose 12 ftr instead of 12 monk for the play style and I already have a couple of GS kopeshes and canith crafted kopesh beaters from my past lives.

[Zerkul]

I got a simple suggestion if you are good and reactive player on the battlefield.

Go Barbarian 20/Epic 5 with Legendary Dreadnought, pump up your HPs and Healing Amplification as much as you can ... Get a permanent blur item, an incorporeal item and a load of displacement clickies ... Work on your dodge and make sure to have some of the main absorption item (fire/electric/Epic Demonscale Armor...) ... after that make sure to have Silver Flame healing pots always ready.

In the end? You made a barbarian extremely survivable and human barbarian is by far the BEST melee DPS around and do not forget that its gameplay it's quite straightforward. You won't regret it .

[boredman]

I got a simple suggestion if you are good and reactive player on the battlefield.

Go Barbarian 20/Epic 5 with Legendary Dreadnought, pump up your HPs and Healing Amplification as much as you can ... Get a permanent blur item, an incorporeal item and a load of displacement clickies ... Work on your dodge and make sure to have some of the main absorption item (fire/electric/Epic Demonscale Armor...) ... after that make sure to have Silver Flame healing pots always ready.

In the end? You made a barbarian extremely survivable and human barbarian is by far the BEST melee DPS around and do not forget that its gameplay it's quite straightforward. You won't regret it .

Yeah, look at this fighter Video i found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CC7AyuRnZw

A barbarian or a kensei fighter with legendary dreadnought destiny using Masterblitz with 800+ hp, good heal amplification and a source of healing, a esos or a similar dps weapon, even my twf human pally with ld destiny using tinah + oathblade can do some solo ee using displascement clickies and scrolls.

[Cetus]

Yeah, look at this fighter Video i found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CC7AyuRnZw

A barbarian or a kensei fighter with legendary dreadnought destiny using Masterblitz with 800+ hp, good heal amplification and a source of healing, a esos or a similar dps weapon, even my twf human pally with ld destiny using tinah + oathblade can do some solo ee using displascement clickies and scrolls.

Thanks for the plug!

[Therigar]

I have found half-elf to be an excellent racial choice in these situations. There are several dilettantes that let you use cure wands and these are generally sufficient for self healing early on. Later dilettante abilities open up a variety of other options.

The initial question is something of a trap. Best DPS depends on several factors and I'm not sure that I understand all of the ones that will apply to you.

If you will group almost exclusively then a well built rogue with full SA damage is going to be the most DPS you can have -- probably including with epic gear. But certainly if relying on normal gear and gear you acquire as you level.

OTOH, if you will solo almost exclusively then rogue might be a horrible choice.

Now, changing direction on you just a little bit.

The game has changed significantly with regards to armor class and damage mitigation. The most survivable characters are those that are layering dodge with concealment with incorporeal with DR with AC + PRR.

It could be that the best DPS is somewhere south of most DPS on a build that is quite a ways north in survivability. A barbarian with 25% dodge, 20% concealment, 10% incorporeal, 10/- DR and the highest attainable AC + PRR with light armor could be the best DPS even if it has to pull down off the max DPS numbers.

And that is because DPS is always zero when you are dead.

This leads me to conclude that the best DPS might well be a full BAB half-elf with a ranger/paladin/cleric/favored soul dilettante. Barbarian lends itself to this as does rogue.

An alternative is a ranger using the same build mindset but human for the many perks that human offers.

None of these will, probably, be the highest DPS but they well could be the best DPS.

[Koseph]

Yeah, I was considering Barb stuff, but I already have a capped barb with THF stuff going on. He could use a little gear love with the year AFK, but the play style isn't my favorite. Beyond that, I think that I would like for this guy to stay twf, and the Barb situation doesn't lend well to that with the lack of feats.

I strongly considered full rogue, but I don't really have the gear for it to be effective at the moment. Also, the lets see what I can do solo aspect on a rogue isn't as easy on a rogue.

I guess I want to be the guy who does goodish but not DPS, but who can run around in circles resing people if stuff goes south in a raid. Or at least be the last one standing :P

As far as this goes, what do you think of the build I posted above? Can you think of improvements or alternatives?

[Ellihor]

Yeah, I was considering Barb stuff, but I already have a capped barb with THF stuff going on. He could use a little gear love with the year AFK, but the play style isn't my favorite. Beyond that, I think that I would like for this guy to stay twf, and the Barb situation doesn't lend well to that with the lack of feats.

I strongly considered full rogue, but I don't really have the gear for it to be effective at the moment. Also, the lets see what I can do solo aspect on a rogue isn't as easy on a rogue.

I guess I want to be the guy who does goodish but not DPS, but who can run around in circles resing people if stuff goes south in a raid. Or at least be the last one standing :P

As far as this goes, what do you think of the build I posted above? Can you think of improvements or alternatives?

If the twf barb cant afford the twf feats, a thf cant afford the thf feats as well and all dps barbs get them (FYI you dont need to take OTWF and the other twf feats, only the min 3 ones).

[Kinerd]

Yeah, I was considering Barb stuff, but I already have a capped barb with THF stuff going on. He could use a little gear love with the year AFK, but the play style isn't my favorite. Beyond that, I think that I would like for this guy to stay twf, and the Barb situation doesn't lend well to that with the lack of feats.

I strongly considered full rogue, but I don't really have the gear for it to be effective at the moment. Also, the lets see what I can do solo aspect on a rogue isn't as easy on a rogue.

I guess I want to be the guy who does goodish but not DPS, but who can run around in circles resing people if stuff goes south in a raid. Or at least be the last one standing :P

As far as this goes, what do you think of the build I posted above? Can you think of improvements or alternatives?

If you want to be the last one standing, you want to be a paladin, or maybe an 18 paladin / 2 monk. Damage mitigation doesn't keep you up, it just keeps you up a little longer. Healing is what keeps you up, self-healing is how you'll keep yourself up in dire straits, and paladins even offer a cheap AP Raise ability that synergizes very well with your healing enhancements.

Potions and scrolls do well enough, but spells and LoH are just better. The tradeoff is that you do less DPS, but it's not like you're doing bard DPS or something.

In general horcs are poor for what you're looking for. They offer no healing improvements, no damage mitigation, and work against your UMD. Uncanny Dodge is not going to keep you alive. Not enough uptime, not enough of a bonus. It helps, sure, but it helps a lot more to hit a button and say "nu-uh, I'm at full HP again, nyah nyah".

[Partydeluxe]

The tradeoff is that you do less DPS, but it's not like you're doing bard DPS or something.

All the +1s I gave you and now this..you and I have clearly not met the same bards.

/ontopic Yes pallies are probably the most hard-to-kill class out there but your dps will be sad. If you want to build a tank, go for it. If you want to be a beefy versatile dps then there is no reason you cant just go with fighter. Next dungeon gonna be a too tough? Fine, change a dps twist into something defensive, adjust your gear a bit and go have a blast.

[Dieterstrife]

For a big improvement, I'd personally not go horc. If you wish to do twf, Half elf and Human lend themselves to twf better than horc does. In fact, if you want to have a lot of fun, make it a dwarf. They get bonuses to tactics, so you could still have stunning blow. Bonuses to con means more HP, and bonuses to saves (some, I forget which) makes you a stout little ankle smiter. Also, you would use Daxes instead of Khopeshes, meaning you save a feat for...something. idk what else. Improved sunder comes to mind.

You can go Half elf, dump cha and put those points into Wisdom to get Cleric Dile (like other's have stated, it's a miracle feat to have) which would also up your will saves to something that might save on a 2.

Human gets an extra feat and heal amp (through enhancements), so it becomes a lot like the Dwarf idea here.

It's all up to you, honestly.

[Partydeluxe]

Sounds like you would like my build on Axess. Its a 12ftr/7rog/1barb.

12ftr gives a bunch of feats and power surge from kensai II, rogue has a nice sweetspot at level 7 and the 1 barb is mostly for running speed, sprint boost, a casual rage and the +1 damage on PA.

I have a 40 standing umd and full trapskills both without gearswaps. A lot of healing amp from being human. Around 860hp running around and 1000+ in raid-mode. Stunning blow DC between 50-55 depending on buffs. Around 35 sneak-attack damage and even more when i activate rogue past-life. Base damage is very high too obviously, both in LD and/or FotW.

PM me and I can post up the entire build with gear layour and stuff (if you are interested), right now its all in excel spreadsheets

Levels and feats (direct copy paste)

	
1)	Rogue 1	Power Attack	toughness (human)
2)	Ftr 1		Quickdraw
3)	Ftr 2	Cleave	Focus: Slashing
4)	Rogue 2	+1 CON	
5)	Barb 1		
6)	Ftr 3	TWF	
7)	Ftr 4		Weap Spec: Slashing
8)	Ftr 5	+1 STR	
9)	Ftr 6	IC: Slashing	Prof: Khopesh
10)	Ftr 7		
11)	Ftr 8		Stunning Blow
12)	Ftr 9	iTWF	+1 STR
13)	Ftr 10		gTWF
14)	Ftr 11		
15)	Ftr 12	PL: Rogue	Gr. Weap Spec: Slashing
16)	Rogue 3	+1 STR	
17)	Rogue 4		
18)	Rogue 5	Great Cleave	
19)	Rogue 6		
20)	Rogue 7	+1 STR	
E1)	Epic 21	Epic Toughness	
E2)	Epic 24	Overwhelming Crit	+1 STR

[Kinerd]

Who throws a better punch, Bono or Roland? QED.