Guild Renown Changes

[Tshober]

0. There should always be an incentive to buy even more renown potions and airship amenities..

Yeah, that is probably at least somewhat realistic.

[jhadden30]

[QUOTE=theslimshady;4777769]well as a leader of a large guild before and after the renown system was invented it took a lot of charm and wit

when the bleeding started it took alot of posting in guild to make people understand a system that was too complex in nature

and when the renown started flowing in again nothing but cheers and funny mabar memories that in all the prior years sucked cause having fun watching your guild bleed out just dosent feel right[/QUOTE

I agree it is no fun however, other guilds found a way to flourish under the old system so maybe all these gigantic guilds running around got entirely to big to manage themselves properly and when the renown flow stopped that's when everybody began to complain about it. But now some people on here are up in arms because small guilds still have the same amount renown decay but it seems to be ok to cater to larger guilds when they have a problem. Which in turn defeats the purpose of having a guild in the first place. Now everyone can argue this point six ways to sunday but that's pretty much the long and short of it.

[Tshober]

I agree it is no fun however, other guilds found a way to flourish under the old system so maybe all these gigantic guilds running around got entirely to big to manage themselves properly and when the renown flow stopped that's when everybody began to complain about it. But now some people on here are up in arms because small guilds still have the same amount renown decay but it seems to be ok to cater to larger guilds when they have a problem. Which in turn defeats the purpose of having a guild in the first place.

Ask 10 random players what the purpose of a guild is and you will likely get 10 different answers. Ask 100 and you will start to get some repeats but you will also get some answers that are vastly different from the typical answer. The purpose of a guild is different for different players. What makes for an excellent guild for you might suck mightily for someone else.

Large guilds have to appeal to all of those differing guild purposes, to some degree, which means they have a hard time focusing on a single one. Small guilds can focus better but they have to limit themselves to only those players that share the same vision of guild purpose.

So I find it hard to understand your comment because it is not only unclear what purpose is being defeated, it is also equally unclear what is defeating it.

[jhadden30]

Ask 10 random players what the purpose of a guild is and you will likely get 10 different answers. Ask 100 and you will start to get some repeats but you will also get some answers that are vastly different from the typical answer. The purpose of a guild is different for different players. What makes for an excellent guild for you might suck mightily for someone else.

Large guilds have to appeal to all of those differing guild purposes, to some degree, which means they have a hard time focusing on a single one. Small guilds can focus better but they have to limit themselves to only those players that share the same vision of guild purpose.

So I find it hard to understand your comment because it is not only unclear what purpose is being defeated, it is also equally unclear what is defeating it.

Biting off more than you can chew and not being able to manage it properly. That's what is defeating the purpose of a guild.

[slarden]

Decay being based on a per-active-account basis, without a minimum number, means 0 people active = 0 decay. 1 person active = 1/20th of current minimum decay, 50 people active = 2.5 times the current decay. I would also tie the guild size bonus to the number of active people, because if you aren't getting a penalty, there's no justification for a bonus either, and even someone who's passively earning renown and not actively looking for it will provide positive movement.

The key to that system, though, is the way you calculate "activity". I propose that someone is not marked as active until they earn at least one point of renown, and when decay is calculated, the activity flag is reset for every character, so that a player only counts for decay if they have been active since the last decay calc.

Ah,that makes more sense. Thank you for the explanation.

[Gremmlynn]

I agree it is no fun however, other guilds found a way to flourish under the old system so maybe all these gigantic guilds running around got entirely to big to manage themselves properly and when the renown flow stopped that's when everybody began to complain about it. But now some people on here are up in arms because small guilds still have the same amount renown decay but it seems to be ok to cater to larger guilds when they have a problem. Which in turn defeats the purpose of having a guild in the first place. Now everyone can argue this point six ways to sunday but that's pretty much the long and short of it.

Big, large and huge guilds are not really all that much harder to manage than small guilds. Because really all you try to "manage" is your regular active core of players who pretty much manage themselves. The rest are just whatever casual players who happen to log on to play with your regular active core of players, or each other if a guild achieves enough size for that to be viable.

The problem with not catering to large guilds is that these guilds can easily just lose those casual players that make up a much bigger part of their size on paper than they do in-game (my guild could shed 90% of our players and see less than a 50% loss in peak on-line numbers) without much change to those that remain. So, the only real losers are those players who simply don't play enough to matter.

[theslimshady]

Biting off more than you can chew and not being able to manage it properly. That's what is defeating the purpose of a guild.

lol so you now decide what a guild is and how to manage it i mean 200 active accounts 155k a day in decay .babies born ,deployments .holidays .any reallife issues and you still got it in your mind that the word guild means activity based i am so glad the devs have made this change from that old busted system -------------u16 has come and passed i really hope this is the system we all have for the next 2 years so we can return this game back to dnd based and away from the videogamer ubers that have to maximize everything and try and belittle and force complex activity rules on a cas mmo where alot of the fun comes from player interaction not accomplishments or prestige

[jhadden30]

lol so you now decide what a guild is and how to manage it i mean 200 active accounts 155k a day in decay .babies born ,deployments .holidays .any reallife issues and you still got it in your mind that the word guild means activity based i am so glad the devs have made this change from that old busted system -------------u16 has come and passed i really hope this is the system we all have for the next 2 years so we can return this game back to dnd based and away from the videogamer ubers that have to maximize everything and try and belittle and force complex activity rules on a cas mmo where alot of the fun comes from player interaction not accomplishments or prestige

Nope, thats why I am suggesting dropping the whole system that's causing the headache to begin with. This way you can be as big, medium or as small as you want.

[Gremmlynn]

Biting off more than you can chew and not being able to manage it properly. That's what is defeating the purpose of a guild.

What's to manage, outside of keeping guild chat civilized and settling the rare dispute?

[Dandonk]

What's to manage, outside of keeping guild chat civilized and settling the rare dispute?

Obviously, some large guilds have issues getting people to play. Otherwise we wouldn't hear the large guilds being so upset about the decay they were having.

[Tshober]

Obviously, some large guilds have issues getting people to play. Otherwise we wouldn't hear the large guilds being so upset about the decay they were having.

Obviously tiny guilds have the same problem, judging from the last 30 or so pages of this thread.

[Dandonk]

Obviously tiny guilds have the same problem, judging from the last 30 or so pages of this thread.

Indeed, some of us have the same problem. But then the large guilds with casuals got a huge boost, while the rest of us got left behind.

[theslimshady]

Obviously, some large guilds have issues getting people to play. Otherwise we wouldn't hear the large guilds being so upset about the decay they were having.

no the problem is about managing and keeping your large tribe happy

if a guild of 12 has 4 peeps have to go out of town that weekend its 25 percent of the entire guild

if a guild of 200 has 25 percent go away for the weekend thats 50 people

if mabar like last year goes off and 90 percent of a small guild go enjoy festival thats 10ish
if 90 percent of 200 go to enjoy festival thats 180 which equals huge renown decay bleed in a week of more then a million renown
this goes on over and over and over with everything from unexceptable members to guild flippers to boots to game quitters so please stop tringin to explain how in anyway activity based renown system is better in anyway cause its just a fairytale

[Tshober]

Indeed, some of us have the same problem. But then the large guilds with casuals got a huge boost, while the rest of us got left behind.

I support eliminating decay entirely, which would benefit all guilds. Every propopsal I have made in this thread has benefited all guilds. Instead of bashing large guilds and trying to undo the good that has been done, why not try to convince the devs that tiny guilds need some relief from decay too? If you would try that, you might find that many large guild posters would be quite supportive of your efforts.

[Dandonk]

I support eliminating decay entirely, which would benefit all guilds. Every propopsal I have made in this thread has benefited all guilds. Instead of bashing large guilds and trying to undo the good that has been done, why not try to convince the devs that tiny guilds need some relief from decay too? If you would try that, you might find that many large guild posters would be quite supportive of your efforts.

I have posted several times that I do not want large guilds punished. I still don't.

What I am trying to argue against is the posters from large guilds that say (censored) to small guilds, since we have what we want, so go take a hike you small guilds.

I want a fair system: one that does not promote one size of guild over another. That's all. I'm trying to keep this point alive and kicking until Turbine does something to help ALL guilds, not just large ones.

[theslimshady]

I have posted several times that I do not want large guilds punished. I still don't.

What I am trying to argue against is the posters from large guilds that say (censored) to small guilds, since we have what we want, so go take a hike you small guilds.

I want a fair system: one that does not promote one size of guild over another. That's all. I'm trying to keep this point alive and kicking until Turbine does something to help ALL guilds, not just large ones.

so where was this honor and gusto when we was bleeding out and hitting level walls and such all of last year seems to me its only a piggyback now that we got some of our issues addressed and all based on no change for most small guilds not that things got worse there was no change i mean come on

[jhadden30]

What's to manage, outside of keeping guild chat civilized and settling the rare dispute?

Well from the previous posts, keeping everyone interested in playing for one thing and striving towards a goal for another. Isn't it the guild leaders (manager's) job to keep a guild functioning and moving forward? Or is just a gigantic free for all?

[Dandonk]

so where was this honor and gusto when we was bleeding out and hitting level walls and such all of last year seems to me its only a piggyback now that we got some of our issues addressed and all based on no change for most small guilds not that things got worse there was no change i mean come on

Things do not exist in a vacuum. Changes to one set of guilds DO, in fact, change things for the others - in relative values, if not in absolute.

It's a good thing that large guilds are helped. I just want the same help for small guilds.

[slarden]

so where was this honor and gusto when we was bleeding out and hitting level walls and such all of last year seems to me its only a piggyback now that we got some of our issues addressed and all based on no change for most small guilds not that things got worse there was no change i mean come on

Were the poeple on this post stating things like:

1) Large guilds shouldn't even exist
2) We should do more to penalize large guilds
3) Don't complain because nothing changed for you. The old system was fine.

Because that is what we are hearing on this thread. I have no idea why you would blame us for a system that wasn't designed, implemented or created by us. I never once lobbied against helping large guilds and many times on this thread stated I was happy for large guilds. I never proposed anything that would hurt a large guild or negatively impact the decay break you received. I merely requested the same break for small guilds that struggle from the same type of issues.

Keep in mind that under the old system nobody struggled more than small casual guilds. Whatever level you are at, I am sure you run across people in small gulids every day that are at a much lower level.

I never lobbied against helping large guilds and supported the reduction and removal of decay.

[theslimshady]

Things do not exist in a vacuum. Changes to one set of guilds DO, in fact, change things for the others - in relative values, if not in absolute.

It's a good thing that large guilds are helped. I just want the same help for small guilds.

how? how does what my guild does have anything to do with your guild i dont understand