Celestia, Brightest Star of Day

[kaipan]

Btw, fyi, Celestia has [W]=1d10, while unarmed has [W]=1d6, so 5[1d10] is actually better than 7.5[1d6]: it's 27.5 average damage instead of 26.5 .

[Potta]

Fair enough, I figured I would be wrong on some of the figures as I can't get in game at the moment. Even so, I wasn't wrong in the estimate of 7.5-9.5[W]

Lastly, can you wrap your head around the idea of a Flavour build? For all your arguments of 'its poor DPS' some people just don't want to play a max-maths-spreadsheet in game. Some people like to play fun, flavour characters that still work at end game regardless.

I'll take issue with this however. How about you wrap your head around the fact that the OP specifically asked for advice pertaining to DPS and optimization and instead gets absolute tripe from people who should know better glorifying flavor builds instead. I see the same thing on these forums and /advice every day. Someone asks some build question, gets moronic advice in return and I feel compelled to wade in and potentially prevent an inevitable LR/TR for the OP later. Point out where in the OP he asked for a unique or alternative build that others found fun. He doesn't. The question is if they'd be a good idea - not a fun one - and speculating that they could beat handwraps for DPS.

It's always the same defense too, regardless of where it happens. OMG it's a flavour build, not everyone plays a spreadsheet! It's my toon and I'll play like I want! Fine, but don't try to pass it off like it's actually a good idea.

[FuzzyDuck81]

For a monk splash, i'd say they're great - I'm very much considering working on getting some for a 12fvs/6monk/2fighter build I'm working on, as hey, light damage and a certain FvS effect that produces vulnerability to light could be an interesting combo Combined with the rogue dilly too, it should be surprisingly powerful.

[Bosco]

Celestia, Brightest Star of Day, would a pair of these be a good reason to switch to dark monk? sadly still wouldnt have tod, but i would think the dmg from the swords would outshine, most if not all handwraps. Saw a monk/paladin/fighter useing these today.

If you are using the triple earth finisher the improved crit range may make it more viable. But tend to agree that your better off using wraps, stun fist pwns the high hp targets.

[Arlathen]

Btw, fyi, Celestia has [W]=1d10, while unarmed has [W]=1d6, so 5[1d10] is actually better than 7.5[1d6]: it's 27.5 average damage instead of 26.5 .

Very good point. So roughly:

Unarmed = 3.5[1D6] +0.5 PL +0.5 Imp PA +0.5 Rein Fists +1.0 Epic Wraps +1.5 Dance of Flowers = 7.5[D6]
Celestia = 2[1D10] +0.5 Imp PA +1.5 Dance of Flowers +1 Combat Brute = 5[1D10]

Unarmed = 26.25 Avg Dmg
Celestia = 27.5 Avg Dmg

Also, as an aside...

The more I contemplate the 12 Monk/7 Druid Unarmed & Shortsword combination build the more situational advantages I can see.

For example - 7 Druid gives access to Fatal Harrier, a very nice way to build a 25% Enhancement bonus to Melee Attack speed and the principle reason why I'm thinking of this split. While up and running, having this buff nullifies the innate 10% Unarmed Attack Speed and bring Shortswords up-to the same speed as unarmed.

Also, as good as Stunning Fist is, it's a single target lockdown mechanism and doesn't help offensively when surrounded by mobs. In heavy trash situations the dual Celestia's or even standard Radiance weaponry would work very well to Blind Mobs due to the Cleave feats you take to gain Overwhelming Critical.

Cleave's work really poorly with unarmed attacks in the game, slowing you right down, not to mention you can't cleave a Stun. Using the Shortswords however, Cleaves work very well, and open the use of Momentum Swing and Lay Waste from LD. Cleaved Blindness does works very well.

There's also an alternative in Stunning Blow for supplemental Stuns while using Shortswords in addition to everything else the build can do. 50DC+ Stunning Blows are easily possible and workable despite the increased cooldown timer that it suffers.

Furthermore, for sneak damage, the 12/7 Monk/Druid could happily throw everyone a FoM buff and then use Quickened Sleetstorms strategically. Let's see, that's effectively Displacement for every party member and auto-sneak attack for all mobs in the cloud. Rogues don't have to waste there DPS fighting the same mob as you, because they will be destroying mobs with auto Sneak Damage in the same time-space as the Monk does with there single stun-locked target.

So great option to either:

1. Open up Sneak Damage & Stunning on single targets through Unarmed & Stunning Fist, concentrating on Unarmed Attack Speed with Fatal Harrier and as much stacking Alacrity, Doublestrike and +[W] as you can find. Great for High HP, single target beatdowns where Stuns work.

2. Go with SleetStorms, Cleaving Radiance Shortswords and Mass Blindness providing additional Sneak Damage and defenses for all the party to get the most out of. Move in with Stunning Blow for the Kill. Rejoice in the (effective) Displacement + Dodge + Shadow Fade defense combo, and spot spell-heal yourself for the damage your taking.

Truly a 'have your cake, and eat it' build.

[Arkat]

You get 3.5 from being pure.

Up to 4 for past life

4.5 for Reinforced Fists

6 from A Dance of Flowers

7 from ML20 item

8 from Deadly Weapons

9.5 from GMoF fire stance bonus

10 with LD imp PA twist.

Fixed. Improved PA only adds 0.5, not 1.5 according to the text of the enhancement.

Thanks for your list. I think Deadly shouldn't count because you're not going to have an Arty in your Party all the time. I did not consider the ML20 handwraps because, well, I use Tier III Alchemical wraps which are probably better than almost any other wraps generally. I can see using some crafted ML20 wraps in certain situations though.

[Potta]

I'm not convinced Alchemicals are the better choice. The hands down best wraps are Grave Wrappings on anything that can be level drained and has enough HP to survive more than a handful of attacks. Level draining is just so ridiculously powerful on EE that no damage proc can beat it. I'm not sure exactly how it works out to be quite as awesome as it is, but I've seen mobs drop several thousand HP on a proc.

[emptysands]

I'm not convinced Alchemicals are the better choice. The hands down best wraps are Grave Wrappings on anything that can be level drained and has enough HP to survive more than a handful of attacks. Level draining is just so ridiculously powerful on EE that no damage proc can beat it. I'm not sure exactly how it works out to be quite as awesome as it is, but I've seen mobs drop several thousand HP on a proc.

Reduces their max HP and gives them a penalty to saves. Just like against players. Probably blocked by deathward.

[Potta]

Reduces their max HP and gives them a penalty to saves. Just like against players. Probably blocked by deathward.

Oh I know, but the amount of HP they drop sometimes beggars belief.