'Forged melees and body feats

[Fefnir_2011]

I recently capped my 18 Fighter / 2 Paladin WF Kensai. Leveling up, I used Adamantine Body since I had the free feat and extra PRR seemed like a good idea. Now that I'm running epic content, is it a good idea to stick with a body feat (Mithral or Adamantine) or would I probably get more survivability out of another Toughness? Here's my feat list right now:

(General Purpose)
Toughness
Power Attack
THF
iTHF
gTHF
Shield Mastery
IC: Slashing

(Tactics)
Cleave
Great Cleave
Stunning Blow
Improved Sunder

(Kensai Prereqs)
WF: Slashing
GWF: Slashing
SWF: Slashing
GWS: Slashing
WS: Slashing

Obviously, I have more feats than I know what to do with, and I don't like taking a bunch of Toughness. Any other forged melees who have suggestions?

[-Zephyr-]

I believe this should help you determine the "HP equivalent" that body feats are giving you through PRR. Chances are a body feat is better than a toughness.

[scoobmx]

I recently capped my 18 Fighter / 2 Paladin WF Kensai. Leveling up, I used Adamantine Body since I had the free feat and extra PRR seemed like a good idea. Now that I'm running epic content, is it a good idea to stick with a body feat (Mithral or Adamantine) or would I probably get more survivability out of another Toughness? Here's my feat list right now:

(General Purpose)
Toughness
Power Attack
THF
iTHF
gTHF
Shield Mastery
IC: Slashing

(Tactics)
Cleave
Great Cleave
Stunning Blow
Improved Sunder

(Kensai Prereqs)
WF: Slashing
GWF: Slashing
SWF: Slashing
GWS: Slashing
WS: Slashing

Obviously, I have more feats than I know what to do with, and I don't like taking a bunch of Toughness. Any other forged melees who have suggestions?

1. It's important to realize that WF do not get the proficiency additive PRR bonus from armors. That said, the PRR from armor type is still worth it I think, just not worth as much as if you were not warforged: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=387602

2. You should take overwhelming critical since you already have the qualifying feats. This gives a nice DPS boost.

3. You can do the mitigation calculation like shown here and may find that mithral body with some dodge feats or something could be better: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=383046
My gut feeling on this is no. Dodge gives one of the smallest contributions to damage mitigation unless your PRR is extremely high. However if you were dodge capped through MDB before (since addy body is 1 MDB) then this could give you a huge boost in dodge. That would depend on your choice of gear and destinies and how many extra feats you have to blow on dodge, mobility, spring attack. The other advantage of mithral body is you will be able to have evasion if you take shadowdancer. For defense parameters typical of builds of this type (AC under 100, PRR under 50, not much dodge) it turns out the best investment still tends to be AC, so Adamantine Body gives you the biggest boost there.

I have a 18/2 Fighter Rogue and I went with mithral body and the full line of dodge feats and also combat expertise and bulwark of defense (so I skipped power attack) but it's a stalwart and not a kensei and most people think the toaster evasion tank is 'dead' anyway (if it were ever alive to begin with - people have been saying that ever since I rolled the toon)

[Fefnir_2011]

1. It's important to realize that WF do not get the proficiency additive PRR bonus from armors. That said, the PRR from armor type is still worth it I think, just not worth as much as if you were not warforged: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=387602

2. You should take overwhelming critical since you already have the qualifying feats. This gives a nice DPS boost.

3. You can do the mitigation calculation like shown here and may find that mithral body with some dodge feats or something could be better: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=383046
My gut feeling on this is no. Dodge gives one of the smallest contributions to damage mitigation unless your PRR is extremely high. However if you were dodge capped through MDB before (since addy body is 1 MDB) then this could give you a huge boost in dodge. That would depend on your choice of gear and destinies and how many extra feats you have to blow on dodge, mobility, spring attack. The other advantage of mithral body is you will be able to have evasion if you take shadowdancer. For defense parameters typical of builds of this type (AC under 100, PRR under 50, not much dodge) it turns out the best investment still tends to be AC, so Adamantine Body gives you the biggest boost there.

I have a 18/2 Fighter Rogue and I went with mithral body and the full line of dodge feats and also combat expertise and bulwark of defense (so I skipped power attack) but it's a stalwart and not a kensei and most people think the toaster evasion tank is 'dead' anyway (if it were ever alive to begin with - people have been saying that ever since I rolled the toon)

1. Looking through your links and just crunching some math, it's looking like I would get the best deal out of keeping Adamantine and dropping Shield Mastery for Dodge (and taking Overwhelming Critical and Mobility for my epic feats). That would put me at 5% dodge, about 60 AC, and 20 PRR, versus 5%/45/10 with Mithral (and not being able to fill out my dex bonus).

2. I hit 21 today and took eToughness, planning on OC for 24 (I heard it's still not working right?).

3. Right now with Adamantine and no Mobility, I get capped out on my dex bonus (8 base + 2 tome + 2 ship + 6 item + 2 insight = 20 for +5 bonus) and I don't bother with a dodge item. I think you're right in that investing in AC is better for me than dodge or PRR at this point. Bulwark of Defense instead of Mobility would give me the same AC boost and +2 to saves, but I'd have a low dodge cap instead. Hmm, that's a tough one... I might have to think on this some more, as saves are another type of mitigation all together.

RE: Shadowdancer, I completely forgot that it grants evasion. I felt trapped between a rock and a hard place with rogue splash versus paladin splash (evasion versus actually having the saves for it to be worthwhile), and now I'm thinking situationally Shadowdancer could be better for me than Dreadnought. Decisions, decisions...

I started out with the intent of going Stalwart, then went over to Kensai because it just felt like a better choice for now. Maybe the enhancement pass will let WF take Kensai and Stalwart side by side, but that's a ways off, and I doubt many groups would happily take me on as a tank.

[scoobmx]

1. Looking through your links and just crunching some math, it's looking like I would get the best deal out of keeping Adamantine and dropping Shield Mastery for Dodge (and taking Overwhelming Critical and Mobility for my epic feats). That would put me at 5% dodge, about 60 AC, and 20 PRR, versus 5%/45/10 with Mithral (and not being able to fill out my dex bonus).

2. I hit 21 today and took eToughness, planning on OC for 24 (I heard it's still not working right?).

3. Right now with Adamantine and no Mobility, I get capped out on my dex bonus (8 base + 2 tome + 2 ship + 6 item + 2 insight = 20 for +5 bonus) and I don't bother with a dodge item. I think you're right in that investing in AC is better for me than dodge or PRR at this point. Bulwark of Defense instead of Mobility would give me the same AC boost and +2 to saves, but I'd have a low dodge cap instead. Hmm, that's a tough one... I might have to think on this some more, as saves are another type of mitigation all together.

RE: Shadowdancer, I completely forgot that it grants evasion. I felt trapped between a rock and a hard place with rogue splash versus paladin splash (evasion versus actually having the saves for it to be worthwhile), and now I'm thinking situationally Shadowdancer could be better for me than Dreadnought. Decisions, decisions...

I started out with the intent of going Stalwart, then went over to Kensai because it just felt like a better choice for now. Maybe the enhancement pass will let WF take Kensai and Stalwart side by side, but that's a ways off, and I doubt many groups would happily take me on as a tank.

Just remember that your dodge is capped by your MDB which is 1 for adamantine body, so to put yourself at 5% dodge as in your point #1 you would have to take fighter armor mastery.

Also remember that bulwark of defense requires you be in a defensive stance which is mutually exclusive with power attack.

OC is providing +1 crit range instead of +1 multiplier. The crit range applies after IC so it's just a flat +1 boost.

[Fefnir_2011]

Just remember that your dodge is capped by your MDB which is 1 for adamantine body, so to put yourself at 5% dodge as in your point #1 you would have to take fighter armor mastery.

Also remember that bulwark of defense requires you be in a defensive stance which is mutually exclusive with power attack.

OC is providing +1 crit range instead of +1 multiplier. The crit range applies after IC so it's just a flat +1 boost.

Yeah, I figured I would have to anyway. Is there a direct MDB to dodge cap chart somewhere? There wasn't one on the wiki on the Dodge or MDB pages.

I managed to miss that, thanks. Looks like Addy/Dodge/Mobility it is.

I also took a look at Zephyr's link, and Addy is worth about 90 hp, versus 45 for Mithral. That means Adamantine Body is worth eToughness + 1 1/2 Toughness feats, and Mithral is worth close to eToughness. EDIT: for a ~800 hp melee, at least. it's worth about 20/10 HP less for lower hp toons, and 60/30 HP more for tanks.

[scoobmx]

Yeah, I figured I would have to anyway. Is there a direct MDB to dodge cap chart somewhere? There wasn't one on the wiki on the Dodge or MDB pages.

I managed to miss that, thanks. Looks like Addy/Dodge/Mobility it is.

I also took a look at Zephyr's link, and Addy is worth about 90 hp, versus 45 for Mithral. That means Adamantine Body is worth eToughness + 1 1/2 Toughness feats, and Mithral is worth close to eToughness. EDIT: for a ~800 hp melee, at least. it's worth about 20/10 HP less for lower hp toons, and 60/30 HP more for tanks.

Dodge cap = MDB

The link zephyr gave is a bit inaccurate. This is because 1. it is an approximation from linearizing and 2. it ONLY considers PRR, but of course the body feats also affect AC and dodge cap.