PM health bars...

[taurean430]

Whereas the simple solution is dont use that ability in that fight. Its an active ability, not a passive, right? Common sense should tell the majority of players that an active and self-healing PM is worth WAY more than a divine's ability to make a handful of devils go boom. A PM that drops form in that fight is likely to end up in the penalty box, especially on elite.

Fortunately the majority of shroud runs I do anymore are guild runs, where the healer(s) is almost always a guildie. Unfortunately, my guildies seem to think it is absolutely hilarious to try and kill me in new and creative ways, so I have been avoiding shroud while waiting for the bug to be fixed.

It appears that there are many who find blowing up PM's to be a fun distraction. While I don't agree with this, it doesn't stop others. I use judgement when soloing. Or, when the arcanes in the party announce that they are either sorcs or archmages. Not worth the trouble otherwise.

But, I have seen it used in a similar way to grease a number of times since it's been available.

Can't say much for anyone else, but typically I expect Pales to be watching themselves. This even though I carry the spells on my divines to help out in a bad situation. I agree it's silly. This is why I point out the cheaper cost of throwing a res vs playing a guessing game and running the risk of losing other party members chain casting at them when they eat a DBF and drop too low.

The real problem though is that you cannot tell when a PM is in and out of form in the middle of large battles. As for being complained at or blamed like the OP describes I only would have 3 words: Ha ha ha...

[Entelech]

/signed.

Anything that makes a Cleric's job easier is fine by me. We have taken too many steps in the opposite direction, lately.

[Cyndrome]

Who are YOU running with? I have *never* been in any group at all -- raid or otherwise -- where the PM (usually me) was "pressured" in any way to drop form. It is, in fact, the exact opposite -- most groups are quite content to have a caster that can do their job and NOT need a babysitter. The only exception is when there is a gob of light damage in a quest -- at most that usually results in a warning for the PM (if they are new to the class or the quest) to be more cautious.

I agree completely. This should never be a problem even in an incompetent group. If there is a PM in the party you should assume they are in form. Once I have lich form the only time I am out of form in a quest is when I zone in and right after I shrine. The one exception would be Running with the Devils- but I am not dumb enough to run that on elite on a PM regardless. A PM that is not in form in part 4 or 5 of the Shroud is more useful as a soul stone, as they would likely be more of a drain on party resources than they would be to assist the raid. That being said, when I am playing a PM pretty much everything in part 4 is dead as soon as it spawns.

I would drop party before dropping form in parts 4 or 5 of the Shroud.

[Habreno]

When on a fvs/clr ignore any wizard or sorcs HP bar unless there is a very good reason that they would need healing (palemaster out of form in running with the devils, you see the sorc tripped/stunned, etc).


Assume that a wizard in particular is either:

fleshie and a palemaster (can't heal em)
or
WF and an archmage (they can heal themselves).

Any arcane that cannot self heal needs to reroll, straight up.

If they can't self heal that doesn't guarantee that they are a waste of a party spot, but 9 times out of 10 they will be.

Arcane that can't self heal is not always gimp. Maybe you ran into a 20 Sorc who's a first life and hasn't gotten their +6 CHA skills item crafted yet because they wanted a HP item? Can't quite self heal reliably, even with buffs and Heal scrolls, because the UMD isn't there yet.

Not a gimp.


PM Wizard not in form because of light damage? Not a gimp.

Sorry, fully disagree.

Building a sorc or a wizard to self heal is incredibly easy and takes nothing away from anything else the class can do.

It isn't a problem, so long as the cleric/favored soul/whoever you somehow enlist to scroll heal you is fine with it. That is very rare, as most healers realize that their arcane should be self sufficient. You had the choice to be incredible as an arcane and you chose to be merely OK.

This isn't comparing DCs. DCs and self healing are in no way mutually exclusive.

If you are a wizard or sorc chugging cure serious pots at mid/high levels, I pity the choices you have made.

It isn't about min/maxing. It is about making the very, very obvious decision to build for self healing on an arcane.

So...

I don't think palemasters should get a different colored HP bar because it is not necessary in any way and if a wizard gets butthurt because they didn't get heals...that is their own RL IQ check they failed when they rolled the character. Sounds harsh but, hey, why make changes that can very easily be solved by the players in question?

SO, SO SOOOO much other stuff is ACTUALLY broken in this game. If it isn't broken, PLEASE, devs, don't try and fix it!!!

I cannot think of a single situation that this would help that could not be otherwise be resolved in a handful of seconds of quick communication, and that situation is FAR from common to begin with in the first place.

I've played palemasters, I've played clr/fvs, and it has never been an issue in the slightest.

/not signed.

You haven't played one recently, or run Caught in the Web on one. Otherwise, you would be complaining because everything you do in there is nerfed. Your heals don't hit for full, a PM aura doesn't hit fully, and if you're not paying attention **** hits the fan.

Fully disagree.

I don't think there was a problem with my ability to solo heal. I've solo healed elite Shroud before.

When the two wizards went down at the start of part 4, mostly everyone stopped when the leader began complaining and saying it was a wipe. When Harry dropped, I think only two people went to the center to melee him.

The problem, as I see, was the two wizards (who did take the time to tell me they were undead while we were waiting to go into part 1, but did not bother to tell me they would not be undead when we got to part 4) and the leader who was far too quick to call it a wipe. With everyone but me, a rogue, and a fighter standing around moaning and groaning in part 4, the leader's prediction of a wipe was inevitably proven correct. It didn't have to be.

Party fail. Simple as that.

/signed

1st of all it is never a divines responsibility to heal an arcane caster (wizard, sorc) if they can't heal themselves no matter the form, its their own fault they failed.

But this actually makes sense, a default purple bar with option to allow person to change color would be nice for undead type characters. Possibly an option for warforged type characters as well.

If someone can't heal themselves when they are generally expected to, it is their responsibility to let me know so I can heal them. If they fail to do that then yes, it's their fault. If not, then no.

/signed.

Anything that makes a Cleric's job easier is fine by me. We have taken too many steps in the opposite direction, lately.

ESPECIALLY with Caught in the Web and the debuff......... Seriously, I have an easier time healing Epic Elites than that on Epic Hard. Even Epic Elite Dairy Queen is easier with a PuG than EH CitW in guild...

[DynaTheCat]

Good PMs do not fear the light.

Agreed on the "If you can't use heal scrolls by the time you're 25, you need to reroll or get more UMD/CHA" rule.

[daniel7]

Signed

Make it available in the options menu, more options can't hurt.

I'd like to add another color for WF.

If I had my way fleshies would be green, PMs would be purple, and WFs would be grey. Giving the WF characters a distinct color helps you remember which party members need the bigger cure spells when things get hectic.

[danotmano1998]

/Signed.


Reminds me of This idea here.

[AmiSouthpaw]

As one that has a PM it is not up to the cleric to keep up with the PM especially in a raid that they started out in form. Those that slip and turn it to the clerics fault are nothing but trolls imo. I know that I will get hated on for this but
I have been with parties that the cleric spent more time trying to heal the PMs, there was me an one other, wasted their mana several times and did not have pots so used the shrines and kept at it after we told them that you can not heal us you have to use harm the PMs got cussed out and all we did was squelch the ones that kept it up. I try to take it easy on clerics as much as i can....never know when you need that raise from death, or extra sp and yes i have a cleric as well. Back to the general idea of this post i agree something visual is a good idea for PMs as most clerics/fvs/druids do not look at the character but the health bar...i know that i do and use the F keys to select the person or click on their bar to heal them and have casted healing spells on a few PMs and laughed at my own stupidity

/signed

[Todkaninchen]

I think it's a really good idea to give a solid indicator to the cleric as to form using a different color bar. The reason is simply clear communication of something that would be obvious to someone if, say, they actually were there cleric looking at their party-member but which requires--in the current game mechanics--some form of communication in a timely manner between pale master and healer in game.

An additional indicator--on those same lines--might be one for character classes that get reduced positive energy healing and may be healed by repair spells (warforged and non-warforged artificers using construct essence). Just adding a second color--maybe a darker red--for these classes might also help encourage co-healing (with repair spells) by arcanes with repair capabilities. So--in this case--it would be a system of 3 colors: red (heal spells heal), dark red (both heal spells and repair spells heal) and purple (undead, harm spells heal). Maybe let heal-augments on warforged make the dark red lighter...

And as far as "You must be warforged or pale master or re-roll" issue goes, that's bull excretement. Unless you are a palemaster with essentially heal-over-time spells, when you do that you're wasting some of the party's most effective resources to succeed in terms of SP and time whenever you have an actual healer on board. Unless you're only there to buff and maybe charm so you're piking battles anyway, you're dumping your damage capability and shifting that damage you could have stopped onto your party mates whenever your efforts are duplicated by a healer.

For soloing, it makes sense to be hyper-self sufficient like that, but if you're taking enough damage to need to spend significant portions of your time and blue-bar on self-healing while in a group, you're a half-a**ing piker no matter how "strong" your build is. Doubly so if you've made yourself mostly unhealable by anyone else.

[Requiro]

/signed

Dark purple color, just like Death Aura.

[goodoldxelos]

I think there is a consensus here, I hope the devs will consider this minor change

[jonqrandom]

for in-form PMs, totally /signed.

what about repairable targets? arcanes, would you be more likely to chuck repairs if you could see at a glance on the bar who you could help? healers, would you be less likely to heal those same targets?

[MrChipinator]

I agree, some cool new UI customization would be nice in general. Like the icons that indicate which class you are? I wouldn't mind having those redone a bit, just for kicks.

Would be cool to see a purple HP bar in a group, with a skull as the class icon indicating he is in PM form.

/signed

[stille_nacht]

lol what kind of wizard goes out of form in part 4 of elite shroud?
"hurr durr, i'm doing to make the clerics heal me only and not the entire party while harry is DPS-ing them"

its called neg burst/aura + protection from energy, fire shield, and general dodging people, not complex


as to the change, i'm all for it, it can only improve the game

[Coldmurder]

WHERE ARE THE CLERICS AT?????????

WE CAN"T FIND A CLERIC TO JOIN OUR GROUP????????????????

This is just another example of why there are so little clerics out there.
These two who did that. Its their fault not yours.

And this is another reason why i TRed both my clerics into melee.

To many people complain to shun the fact it was their fault.

[CaptainSpacePony]

WHERE ARE THE CLERICS AT?????????

WE CAN"T FIND A CLERIC TO JOIN OUR GROUP????????????????

This is just another example of why there are so little clerics out there.
These two who did that. Its their fault not yours.

And this is another reason why i TRed both my clerics into melee.

To many people complain to shun the fact it was their fault.

I bet you also made a pale master too as you clearly have necromatic skills

More recently I included this http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=400066 (shameless thread plug)

That being said, I don't think this has much to do with why there is a (perceived) shortage of clerics (healers).
There are a good number of healing types out there, but many parties consider them a "must have" while the other member slots are discretionary. This insistance on dedicated healing can make it conspicuously seem that there are "so little clerics out there."

If there is a real shortage, I'll bet that more related to the fact that playing healer for a party is a LOT different than most other roles. My attention is more focused on health bars than on environment. There are other contributing factors (ungrateful kamakaze players) that have been discussed at length elsewhere, but I contend it is mostly the fact that the different play style is just not as fun for some (myself included).

[danzig138]

To the OP - I always assume a NON WF Wiz is in form. Its up to them to tell me if theyre not. Not your fault

No, it's not up to me to tell you if my halfling archmage is not in undead form.