My depressing DDO Day (Renown)

[eris2323]

Dang... this thread is still going.

I still don't see why anyone is still arguing with the OP. When someone has the viewpoint of:

"We are casual players and a casual guild and we don't want to change that, BUT we want the rewards that only can only be achieved by powergamers... but we don't want to be known as powergamers because that is a "bad word" to us."

Well, then you aren't going to change their mind... it's completely illogical.


It's the same as saying "I am a casual gamer and can only play about 1 hour a day, and I see other players leveling to 20 in 2 days. I should have some in-game mechanic that allows me to level 20 in 2 days as well... otherwise the in-game rules are inherently unfair to me... a casual gamer and the current mechanics only benefits those who "powergame".

This is just insulting.

[HungarianRhapsody]

And this would be basically another 'shut up and enjoy what you have'

Stop putting words in other peoples' mouths!

[eris2323]

Stop putting words in other peoples' mouths!

"Or, you could stop worrying about guild level."

Looks like their words, right there.

[themoonbreaker]

I can't see the system changing. There must be some balance to the system. I am one who chooses friends over amenities and I don't find it a terrible sacrifice. I understand what you are asking but I don't agree it is needed.

[eris2323]

I can't see the system changing. There must be some balance to the system. I am one who chooses friends over amenities and I don't find it a terrible sacrifice. I understand what you are asking but I don't agree it is needed.

I am one who leads a large democratic guild - we have a large amount of casual players, and a fairly large number of active, daily players. Our active, daily players matchs any power-gamer guild. We always have 12-25 people online, playing nonstop during primetime... and 3-10 during the rest of the day.

We just want the chance to continue to build our community. In order to gain levels, we will have to remove our more casual friends. We will have to put a number on friendship. "If you are idle more than a month" (or whatever number is decided on) - You are not worthy of being in our community?

I realize that some people think guilds are just about the 6 people who adventure together daily. I do not. I see them as my community.

[Postumus]

So based on the feedback you've been given, what has your guild decided to do?


a- boot casuals and streamline guild.
b- create a sister guild for casuals.
c - create a channel for the casuals.
d- organize renown farming sessions/raids.
e- not worry about guild renown.


I thought B was your best option if you really care about maintaining contact with all 187 members and still want to have access to L80 buffs, but after reading all (three?) of your threads on this, I'm curious which decision your 'democratic guild' made. I assume there was a vote?

---
EDIT: just saw your last post. Looks like you've ignored every option, have not put this issue to a vote, and you are still planning on kicking guild members while blaming Turbine for 'forcing' you into this decision.

Too bad. I thought you had some creative solutions thrown at you.

[eris2323]

So based on the feedback you've been given, what has your guild decided to do?


a- boot casuals and streamline guild.
b- create a sister guild for casuals.
c - create a channel for the casuals.
d- organize renown farming sessions/raids.
e- not worry about guild renown.


I thought B was your best option if you really care about maintaining contact with all 187 members and still want to have access to L80 buffs, but after reading all (three?) of your threads on this, I'm curious which decision your 'democratic guild' made. I assume there was a vote?

Yes, there was a vote.

No, I did not take part - I only do when theres a tie.

From the beginning of this thread.... my first post here, what do you THINK was the result?

[Schmoe]

I know I'm late to the party, but...

Does your guild care more about in-game renown than RL relationships? It seem analogous to "do I care more about doing things in RL than grinding the absolute best gear for 6 hours a day." It's a choice to be made, not really something that can be fixed.

[Thrudh]

Yes, there was a vote.

No, I did not take part - I only do when theres a tie.

From the beginning of this thread.... my first post here, what do you THINK was the result?

Sounds to me like your guild members are forcing you to kick old friends, not Turbine.

My guild, we talked about it, and decided as long as we could maintain above 63, we wouldn't kick anyone.

[eris2323]

Sounds to me like your guild members are forcing you to kick old friends, not Turbine.

My guild, we talked about it, and decided as long as we could maintain above 63, we wouldn't kick anyone.

Sounds to me, that the system is set up to discourage casual players at all, and any new players are also being persecuted, as many guilds have their doors closed.

Sounds to me that it's human nature to want to be part of a growing society, as opposed to a stagnate society that is getting absolutely no where due to a mechanic that was never tested with large amounts of players, and really needs to be looked at.

Sounds to me that I don't own my guild, I love my guild; I love my friends. They're all my friends. I don't want to be forced to choose to remove players who, while casual players, still helped get us to where we are.

I get that you don't care about renown. I get that you don't care about your guild. I get that you are willing to accept a policy without thinking about the effect it is having on the rest of the game.

This part of the game is NOT fun. It's not social. It goes against the very idea of a Massive, Multiplayer game, in my mind.

It's broken. It needs to be fixed.

[kafrielveddicus]

I can't believe this thread is still running on, it's like a long sentence!

To the OP, as you can see many people of the community have chimed in that it is a choice to be made depending on the results you want from guild renown vs. friends and guild size.

The game is not wrong in providing a system where this choice has to be made, and it rewards those that grind vs. rewarding anyone/everyone.

My opinion has not changed form the very beginning and still stands as - don't change things as renown should reflect on the biggest and hardest grinders in the game! Mostly because it gives them something to do in order to maintain there elite/uber status (And this keeps them in game where they can spend money or group with casuals on occasion).

That is my 2 Cents!!!

[kafrielveddicus]

I know I'm late to the party, but...

Does your guild care more about in-game renown than RL relationships? It seem analogous to "do I care more about doing things in RL than grinding the absolute best gear for 6 hours a day." It's a choice to be made, not really something that can be fixed.

/signed, /sealed, and /delivered!!!

[eris2323]

I know I'm late to the party, but...

Does your guild care more about in-game renown than RL relationships? It seem analogous to "do I care more about doing things in RL than grinding the absolute best gear for 6 hours a day." It's a choice to be made, not really something that can be fixed.

Do you understand the need of people in a community to feel like their contribution to the community is benefiting the community, and not just barely keeping even, for years at a time?

[eris2323]

I can't believe this thread is still running on, it's like a long sentence!

To the OP, as you can see many people of the community have chimed in that it is a choice to be made depending on the results you want from guild renown vs. friends and guild size.

The game is not wrong in providing a system where this choice has to be made, and it rewards those that grind vs. rewarding anyone/everyone.

My opinion has not changed form the very beginning and still stands as - don't change things as renown should reflect on the biggest and hardest grinders in the game! Mostly because it gives them something to do in order to maintain there elite/uber status (And this keeps them in game where they can spend money or group with casuals on occasion).

That is my 2 Cents!!!

The beauty of a very long conversation on forums is that minds can be changed.

It's like magic, it is.

[kafrielveddicus]

The beauty of a very long conversation on forums is that minds can be changed.

It's like magic, it is.

I am glad to hear that I have finally had an impact on your choices in this matter, for awhile there I thought I was never going to be able to change your mind!

I am glad that you realize things are great just the way they are.

Magic can happen in sooo many ways, long repeated threads of the same repeated arguments only to have everything brought to the forefront where logical and rational decisions are finally reached.

So which did you choose the level 100 guild or the Casual Friends guild?

Wishing you the best in either endeavour!

[HungarianRhapsody]

Sounds to me, that the system is set up to discourage casual players at all, and any new players are also being persecuted, as many guilds have their doors closed.

Sounds to me, that the system is set up to encourage casual players to play more often, and that any new players can be easily recruited by any guild that is low to medium level that wants more warm bodies to throw at the renown treadmill.

Casual and new players have an easier time getting into guilds now than they ever have been before.

Many guilds have their doors closed. Many, many, MANY more have their doors wide open to new players in ways that simply didn't happen before guild renown made "recruit everyone who steps off the boat at Korthos" into a viable strategy for increasing your guild's power.

Now, it certainly is true that at high levels, a casual player will sometimes not be able to pay for their own cost in renown. Since that casual player would never have been invited into a guild in the first place, that seems better than what we used to have.

I'm very sorry that your guild has decided that they value guild levels more than they value their fellow guild members (who are obviously not actual friends based on your description). I still haven't yet seen any alternative suggestions that would bring more benefits than the problems that they would cause. I dislike renown decay. I just don't want to see a necessary evil replaced with an unnecessary one.

[kafrielveddicus]

Sounds to me, that the system is set up to encourage casual players to play more often, and that any new players can be easily recruited by any guild that is low to medium level that wants more warm bodies to throw at the renown treadmill.

Casual and new players have an easier time getting into guilds now than they ever have been before.

Many guilds have their doors closed. Many, many, MANY more have their doors wide open to new players in ways that simply didn't happen before guild renown made "recruit everyone who steps off the boat at Korthos" into a viable strategy for increasing your guild's power.

Now, it certainly is true that at high levels, a casual player will sometimes not be able to pay for their own cost in renown. Since that casual player would never have been invited into a guild in the first place, that seems better than what we used to have.

I'm very sorry that your guild has decided that they value guild levels more than they value their fellow guild members (who are obviously not actual friends based on your description). I still haven't yet seen any alternative suggestions that would bring more benefits than the problems that they would cause. I dislike renown decay. I just don't want to see a necessary evil replaced with an unnecessary one.

Well Said +1 Rep!

[eris2323]

I am glad to hear that I have finally had an impact on your choices in this matter, for awhile there I thought I was never going to be able to change your mind!

I am glad that you realize things are great just the way they are.

Magic can happen in sooo many ways, long repeated threads of the same repeated arguments only to have everything brought to the forefront where logical and rational decisions are finally reached.

So which did you choose the level 100 guild or the Casual Friends guild?

Wishing you the best in either endeavour!

I do not 'realize things are great just the way they are'

The system is broken, and needs to be re-examined.

[HungarianRhapsody]

By the way, I just heard that 100% guild renown pots are now available for sale in the DDO store on Llama. [/tinfoilhat]

[Thrudh]

I get that you don't care about renown. I get that you don't care about your guild.

I and my guild aren't kicking our friends out.