TR build suggestions?

[Qaliya]

I'm working my way through the classes on my way to Completionist, and want to do Paladin next. My plan is to use a stone of experience on this life, so I will be basically going from 1-8, then 16-20, and TRing again.

Anyone have any suggestions for a solid build emphasizing survivability and ability to contribute to a group on elite quests? I want to go THF as I have a lit2 greataxe and a number of other two-handers.

I will have cleric, wizard, barbarian and sorceror past lives.. any of the actives worth taking for a paladin life?

Thanks!

[Kinerd]

Perhaps...

1-8 paladin
9-10 monk
11-"20" paladin

Stats
16 Str
12 Dex (at least a +1 tome)
16 Con
14 Wis
14 Cha

Feats
1 - PA & Toughness
3 - THF
6 - ITHF
9 - Maximize & Dodge
10 - Toughness
12 - IC: Slash
15 - GTHF
18 - Whatever you want
(If you hate humans, you are a racist and I am very disappointed in you. :| Er, I mean you can drop the first Toughness and no big deal.)

Enhancements
Hunter of the Dead!!!
Improved Recovery
Devotion
Human Versatility (at least one rank)
Divine Sacrifice and Exalted Smite 1 (requires at least Extra Smite 2, Exalted Smite is important because it is pretty sweet for falchions and you won't use the ridiculous Sunder animation anymore)
Lay on Handses
Sets you up for the silly Pally raise if you want it
...and unfortunately this is pretty much all you can get, it's tough being a Paladin on the enhancement front.

[cdr]

This is the tank build I used last pally life, my favorite melee life so far I think. Awesome survivability - evasion, insanely high reflex, huge HP, 40% innate healamp, high AC, high dodge, etc - and decent DPS.

I think I had all of two deaths past level 10, once from being cavalier about the sonic trap in Discord (it hits you a couple dozen times, you will roll 1s) and once from a 400 point hit from elite Spinner.

The character is a bastard sword tank with a bunch of nice bastard swords, hence the proficiency. You don't have to take proficiency if you don't have b-swords but your s+b dps will be lower (proficiency gives glancing blows).

Swap in monk dilly when the tome kicks in (7). I went sorc dilly until then.

This isn't 100% the order I took enhancements in, but pretty close. Everything else should be right.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf
(18 Paladin \ 2 Monk) 

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            15                    20
Constitution         15                    18
Intelligence         10                    13
Wisdom               10                    13
Charisma             14                    18

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 10
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 10
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 10
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                     5
Bluff                 2                     4
Concentration         6                    25
Diplomacy             2                     4
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     4
Heal                  0                     1
Hide                  2                     5
Intimidate            4                    32
Jump                  3                     7
Listen                0                     1
Move Silently         2                     5
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     1
Search                0                     1
Spot                  0                     1
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                6                     9
Use Magic Device      4                    15.5

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Sorcerer (Swap to Monk)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Human Versatility I


Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I


Level 4 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 5 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword


Level 7 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I


Level 8 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II


Level 10 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Way of the Tenacious Badger I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III


Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Recovery II


Level 13 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I


Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Bash
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II


Level 16 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III


Level 17 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV


Level 19 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III

[MRMechMan]

Personally-and this might get some backlash-when I do my pally life on my main, will definitely be 10sorc/10paladin-or maybe 13/7 and +3 heart. Plays just as quickly as a sorc in 6-10th lvl content (aka a hell of a lot faster than any melee), about as well in sands, fine in GH, fine in orchard, decent in vale, passable in reavers and mediocre in IQ/amrath-but with any luck won't need to even touch those last 2.

Plus really nice saves as 30+ charisma and some good lay on hands for emergency heals.

Going on the assumption you actually want to play a pally and not a sorc ..

Splashing is probably best-and due to monk giving evasion (overrated but still useful especially with pally saves) and feats (something paladins are in need of) it is probably the strongest choice. 2 rogue for UMD isn't bad either, or fighter for feats.

Go fleshie, probably human or halfelf for amp (which is important when fiddling around with cure serious and a smaller sp pool). Hunter of the dead is probably the best choice-although defender isn't bad either.

I'd focus on DPS-paladins inherently get plenty of survivability and going sword and board vs an elite IQ mob that has 8k hp is just depressing as hell. Consider handwraps or khopeshes.

The active barb past life is better for TRs than toughness. 20hp at level 3>5hp at level 3. Toughness only catches up at level 18, and you won't be level 19 or 20 for very long I am assuming.

The other active past lives are good (I'd take both sorc and wiz on my gimp 10/10) but there are probably stronger choices for a melee character. Perhaps consider cleave-after sorc, wizard and cleric lives you might be a bit zerg prone and while cleave is no blade barrier/acid rain/firewall, it IS a way to make clumping enemies together more efficient.

Finally, paladin is a good choice to stone through. The mid levels can be very lonely/slow on a melee.

[cdr]

I'd focus on DPS-paladins inherently get plenty of survivability and going sword and board vs an elite IQ mob that has 8k hp is just depressing as hell. Consider handwraps or khopeshes.

That's why you pull out a 2 hander if you have someone healing you. If you don't, you may need the board to avoid getting creamed. And I'd hope you have an arcane with you anyway if you're doing IQ, IQ is just depressing in general for melee.

I personally prefer AC builds for leveling melee lives because they let me solo or BYOH a lot easier. A slight hit in DPS is still faster than mashing the CSW pot key for the entire quest, at least in my experience. The AC changes did make AC builds somewhat worse for leveling, but getting hit 20% instead of 5% isn't as bad as I feared.

(Oh, and Toughness is in the above build in lieu of PL:Barb because it's a monk bonus and because rage is subpar with DoS. If you moved a monk level to 11+, you could take CE as monk and take PL:Barb instead of Toughness.)

[MRMechMan]

That's why you pull out a 2 hander if you have someone healing you. If you don't, you may need the board to avoid getting creamed. And I'd hope you have an arcane with you anyway if you're doing IQ, IQ is just depressing in general for melee.

I personally prefer AC builds for leveling melee lives because they let me solo or BYOH a lot easier. A slight hit in DPS is still faster than mashing the CSW pot key for the entire quest, at least in my experience. The AC changes did make AC builds somewhat worse for leveling, but getting hit 20% instead of 5% isn't as bad as I feared.

Dunno, I am always shocked at the number of stalwarts/defenders that go sword and board against everything from kobolds in the harbor to shroud portals.

AC is definitely worth at least somewhat speccing for, but often it is a hell of a lot faster to drop the shield, break out a 2 hander and get down to bizness-in fact, the changes to AC mean that losing some shield AC is no longer as big a deal as it was. Before it could mean getting hit 10x as much, now it has much less of an impact on survivability.

[cdr]

I will allow that for someone in the OP's position a tank build is possibly not the best fit, especially considering the AC changes.

Regardless, go 40% healamp for any build, whether from helf monk dilly or human. And splash for evasion for sure.

And I'm not a fan of the THF line for non-barbs, just twitch. You can probably do better things with the feats on a pally if you're using 2handers, Cleave/Great Cleave maybe.

Put a Parasitic Breastplate w/+10 reflex in the bank for level 14, it's amazing. Maybe the Sustaining Symbiote too, depending on your gear and your tolerance for pain.

[Qaliya]

Thanks for all the replies, everyone. Some good food for thought.

Part of my objective here is to try all the classes and so I will probably go pure paladin.

[Nahual]

A Pally depends more on the +tomes and GS items you have.

Id go dps with 18 str 12 con then cha then wis. As you aren´t building it for end game
and just really trying it out. I wouldnt take toughness, id take the barb PL at lvl 3.
If you want the +8 damage from DM take points of str and put them in cha.

I never tried Hunter of the dead. I like Defender of Syberis which is a better all around Prestige as it gives bonuses to con and str.

Pallies have no problem being survivable even when built badly IMO.

I wouldn´t splash a pally that isnt 2WF except for rogue.

Other thing to consider is Half orc over human.

[MRMechMan]

Thanks for all the replies, everyone. Some good food for thought.

Part of my objective here is to try all the classes and so I will probably go pure paladin.

I don't get it, just about every post that replied before your 2nd post suggested splashing-and it is VERY clearly the way to go for a TR build, 2wf or not. 2 feats and evasion > 2 extra pally levels.

If you didn't actually want advice and were just going to ignore it, why post at all?


Just because you want to "try all the classes" doesn't mean you need to go pure-and if you felt that way you should have included that in your OP so you weren't wasting peoples time that were trying to help you.

[Qaliya]

I forgot to mention that I probably want to go pure in my OP. Sorry about that.

I'm not saying I've ruled out a splash entirely, just that that is my preference since it gives me a better flavor for how the class plays by itself. Seeing the discussion about whether to splash or not is itself helpful.

Apologies to anyone I may have offended, was not my intent.

[Kinerd]

I never tried Hunter of the dead. I like Defender of Syberis which is a better all around Prestige as it gives bonuses to con and str.

The first time an Energy Drain bounces off you is identical to the last time you ever take anything but HotD on a leveling build.

[cdr]

The first time an Energy Drain bounces off you is identical to the last time you ever take anything but HotD on a leveling build.

Meh, the heal amp, innate ghost touch at 6, and immunity to drain at 12 is nice, but there's maybe 2-3 quests where immunity to drain is actually relevant (Invaders, GoP, ?). I still don't think HotD can touch the bonuses of DoS, but the -10% run speed of DoS is pretty obnoxious on a leveling build.