Best epic feats for monks?

[Aalric]

So now that the dust has somewhat settled, & there has even been an aknowledgement from the developers that some epic feats are bugged & that they may fix them for u15,

What is the consensus as to the best rpic feats for monks?

Improved martial arts - a no brainer really, but might there be better?

Vorpal strikes - it's definately nice (when it get's fixed) but for most people you'd have to invest 4 lvl ups into wisdom - not sure if I'd want to do that.

Overwhelming critical - would work nicely with dreadknought, but 3 extra feats to qualify seems to high a price for me.

Epic toughness - definately doable (start with 16 con & eat a + tome + 2 lvl ups in con), helps in the hp department and doesn't require the lvl up investment that vorpal strikes does - bit on the fence with this 1.

What do you think?

[wax_on_wax_off]

Having played an unarmed rogue I can say that vorpal fists is absolutely awesome fun. The +1 crit multiplier on 19-20 is a significant DPS boost for monk as well (more than any other).

A halforc can hit both 23's with +3 tomes with a starting spread of 18/15/15/6/16/6 on a 36 point build and still qualify for air and earth IV. Another race can do it with a +4 tome.

Feats wise it all fits iirc: TWF'ing*3, IC:B, toughness, PA, cleave, great cleave, WF:B, stunning fist. Only works on a light monk.

[Willan]

You could also do Dark Monk human for the extra feat to take dodge. Toughness can be dropped otherwise for dodge to qualify for Ninja Spy.

[mrtweakin]

I am having a really hard time finalizing feats for my pure dark monk. So much so that I am starting to weigh in going back to a 12 monk 8 fighter type build ( or 8/12, or 12/7/1, or ... etc). I am holding off a bit, however, and keeping him kind of sloppy in the feat area until the epic feats are fixed (hopefully with U15).

For now, I am hoping to stick with Helf and cleric(/occasional rogue) dilettante. Going Human for the additional feat may help a little on some of my thoughts, but that is probably another thread.

So far I am looking at (not in any particular order):

Option 1:
Toughness
Power Attack
Dodge
Stunning Fist
TWF, Improved TWF, Greater TWF
Cleave, Great Cleave
Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning
Overwhelming Critical

Option 2:
Toughness
PL: Monk
Precision
Dodge
Stunning Fist
TWF, Improved TWF, Greater TWF
Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
Improved Martial Arts
Vorpal Strikes
??? (Toughness?, Mobility?, PL: Paladin?)

Two very, very different builds. My current setup is more towards the second option, where I think I will land when Vorpal Strikes are fixed. It seems very likely I may switch to a 12/8 type build and go with both Overwhelming Crit and Vorpal Strikes on a Horc build.

[peng]

I have a wis based pure helf ninja spy working towards your option 2. I'm debating what to take for that last feat. At the moment it looks like a 2nd toughness, combat expertise, or quick draw (helf dmg boost + twisted haste boost). Option 3 would see me drop active pl monk for power attack to qualify for imp sunder, which is pretty powerful on a ninja spy, particularly in combination with precision and monk strikes.

[Taimasan]

For Quis I ended up going:

Toughness
PL: Monk
Dark Path
Precision
Dodge
Stunning Fist
TWF, Improved TWF, Greater TWF
Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
Mobility
Vorpal Strikes
Spring Attack



Now I can't live without spring attack, its awesome for my extremely mobile playstyle.

[mrtweakin]

Now I can't live without spring attack, its awesome for my extremely mobile playstyle.

I ended up with Dodge/Mobilty/Spring Attack on my current heavily TR'd and geared monk. For the mid levels it seemed really awesome. A little extra dodge and easily killing stuff on the run. I switched out Spring Attack for precision though. I don't really seem to have an issue hitting trash mobs well moving on eH / eE.

You should try it just to see if you even notice a difference. Unless you can fit in Whirlwind that is

[Kielbasa]

For Quis I ended up going:

Toughness
PL: Monk
Dark Path
Precision
Dodge
Stunning Fist
TWF, Improved TWF, Greater TWF
Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
Mobility
Vorpal Strikes
Spring Attack



Now I can't live without spring attack, its awesome for my extremely mobile playstyle.

My monk is going to tr soon is past life: monk 1[w] or .5[w]?

[slimkj]

I'm going IMA and VS. Investing is Wis is a wise (pun unintended) move for a Monk anyway so hitting the prereq for VS is imo no problem. Working well so far.

On another build, another time, I'd be tempted to fiddle with other things but for now this plays extremely well and I don't want to lose it.

[WruntJunior]

I'm also going with IMA and VS...with u14's to-hit changes, it's much easier to make a wisdom-based monk work, and high wisdom with GMoF looks fun.

[mrtweakin]

I put this together this morning, I am seriously considering TRing into it but feel I should probably hold off until U15.

12 Monk / 8 Fighter Half-orc
Dark path / Ninja Spy II, Kensei I

	Starting	Ending Base		
Str	18	        23	(2 level, +3 tome)
Dex	15	        18	(+3 tome)
Con	15	        18	(+3 tome)
Int	6	        8	(+2 tome)
Wis	16	        23	(4 level, +3 tome)
Cha	6	        8	(+2 tome)

Toughness
Two Weapon Fighting
Dodge 
Past Life: Disciple of the Fist
Power Attack 
Cleave 
Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning
Great Cleave
Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Improved Sunder
Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Stunning Fist
Mobility 
Spring Attack
Overwhelming Critical
Vorpal Strikes

The big problem I am having is the loss of dilettante's. I think it may be worth it though.

You lose one whole +W step from monk levels, lose the tier 3 stances, and some DC's on tactics that calculate total monk level. You also lose 2 Wis and 10/epic DR at cap. However, you are gaining 5 more feats, Haste Boost 3 (can you imagine this when you have vorpal strikes and overwhelming crit and they are working correctly?), and the ability to take (arguably) the best two epic feats for a monk. Kensei I doesn't hurt either.

Hmmm...

[Kielbasa]

I put this together this morning, I am seriously considering TRing into it but feel I should probably hold off until U15.

12 Monk / 8 Fighter Half-orc
Dark path / Ninja Spy II, Kensei I

	Starting	Ending Base		
Str	18	        23	(2 level, +3 tome)
Dex	15	        18	(+3 tome)
Con	15	        18	(+3 tome)
Int	6	        8	(+2 tome)
Wis	16	        23	(4 level, +3 tome)
Cha	6	        8	(+2 tome)

Toughness
Two Weapon Fighting
Dodge 
Past Life: Disciple of the Fist
Power Attack 
Cleave 
Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning
Great Cleave
Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Improved Sunder
Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Stunning Fist
Mobility 
Spring Attack
Overwhelming Critical
Vorpal Strikes

The big problem I am having is the loss of dilettante's. I think it may be worth it though.

You lose one whole +W step from monk levels, lose the tier 3 stances, and some DC's on tactics that calculate total monk level. You also lose 2 Wis and 10/epic DR at cap. However, you are gaining 5 more feats, Haste Boost 3 (can you imagine this when you have vorpal strikes and overwhelming crit and they are working correctly?), and the ability to take (arguably) the best two epic feats for a monk. Kensei I doesn't hurt either.

Hmmm...

Improved martial Arts would be better than Vorpal Strikes in your situation, why? Those 4 level ups you're using in wisdom could go into strength + improved martial arts would give you more average damage than vorpal strikes provides. Plus all of that damage; works on everything, is boosted when things are stunned, increases the damage you get from overwhelming critical as well. You've already got improved sunder so you can knock down a bosses fort save so the few points of dc lost on touch of death can be made up. Vorpal strikes is really only useful if you're a full wisdom monk just my two cents.

[Yazzman]

I have JUST been thinking about this. Playing human light monk I'd like to take all three epic feats but ofc I'm few feats short

TWF*3, PL:Monk, Toughness, PA, IC:B, WF:B, Cleave, Great Cleave, Devastating Crits, Vorpal Strikes, Imp. MA, Imp. Sunder and Stunning Fist makes 15 feats while human monk can choose 13 (and needs two +4 tomes too).

Horc has one feat less then human, but only needs +3 tomes for Dev. Crits and Vorpals Strikes...

Not sure which ones I should drop. Imp. Sunder maybe? And PL possibly...


Edit: Actually, if PL gives +1[W] it would be better to drop Improved Martial Arts instead...
Edit2: Silly me, I can only taky two epic feats...

[emptysands]

Not sure which ones I should drop. Imp. Sunder maybe? And PL possibly...

Toughness?

[Yazzman]

Toughness?

No Barb PL, that would cost me 47HP at level 25 which seems like a lot

[Uhtred_Stark]

This is one of the things I really like about monks, you can build them lots of different ways to get some interesting results. Both gear and feats are varied enough that you can really custom tailor a monk to your play style. For a human dark monk I am leaning toward:

Stunning fist, 3xtwf, dodge, IC-B, toughness, PA, PL monk, vorp strikes, Imp martial arts, Imp sunder and precision.

If I were going light monk I would go with:

Stunning fist, 3xtwf, IC-B, toughness, PA, PL monk, vorp strikes, cleave, great cleave, wf-b, ov crit.

It ends up being a tough choice, I can crit for more dmg as a light monk but won't crit as often and I'll probably be tempted to run in dreadnought. Actually if they end up nerfing EiN this is what I might do