Dear Epic Monkeys

[DevHead]

I'll put it another way. Imagine that tomorrow, in a hotfix, Turbine gave monks a new enhancement line. You could spend 9AP in it for +1hit and +1damage. Would you do it? No. Of course you wouldn't. It's a terrible investment. +1hit/damage is nice, but you can get a lot better for 9AP. That is however exactly what a Fire stance monk is doing by investing AP in his stance. What is he to do then? Use fire stance but not put AP into it? He could, but then the tradeoff for -2 Wisdom is looking a lot more lobsided if you aren't even getting a +4 stat boost out of it.

The smart thing to do would be to realise that Air is the best choice. When he needs Ki, he can swap into Fire stance for several seconds, fill himself up and switch back again. Ki does not decay that quickly. The +1 in GMoF allows me to go over 180 without it even starting to decay. If I find myself low now, I can also top up with Inner Focus on a fairly low cooldown. And failing all of that, I can decide, I'm a bit low on Ki, I can just not use abilities on this next mob. That can happen relatively often by the way, when you have so many mobs immune to your main ki abilities. Are you supposed to QP or Stun or ToD Constructs or Undead? Nope. They're punching bags to generate Ki. Furthermore, Air is the second best stance to generate Ki. I get the feeling when listening to Fire stance users that they have this impression of being in Air stance as being constantly Ki starved. It's not like that at all. It can be from time to time, but intelligent play and a little rationing goes a long way.

Water stance isn't as big of a mistake, but it still is one. ToD does similar damage in air stance after you factor in Doublestrikes. Stunning Fist DCs are so high now that +2 from water means almost nothing. QP DC is the only real benefit, and in that case you're looking at a 7% improvement compared to Air. For significantly less DPS. Not a worthwhile trade.

You say a 7% increase in DPS isn't worth it, but you laud the 10% extra double-strike? It really doesn't seem that much more to me. I used to use Air all the time, actually, but my toon isn't really built for raw DPS; her damage comes from insta-killing and stunning anything that moves. It works well for my playstyle.

[Potta]

You say a 7% increase in DPS isn't worth it, but you laud the 10% extra double-strike? It really doesn't seem that much more to me. I used to use Air all the time, actually, but my toon isn't really built for raw DPS; her damage comes from insta-killing and stunning anything that moves. It works well for my playstyle.

You would do well to read what I wrote, and not what you imagined I wrote.

It's 7% extra chance to kill a mob with QP assuming your DC is 11 higher than their fort save.

That is in no way equivalent to 7% DPS. Not even close.

Edit: I get that some prefer that kind of playstyle, and that's fine. I'm not one to judge that. I know I certainly overfocus on DPS to the detriment of my defensive capabilities, but it's what I enjoy, so I do it. But you should at least be aware that it is a weaker choice. I would love it if Water Stance was given a proper niche. Currently it's in the unenviable position of not really doing anything well. A few percent dodge chance is okay, but if you wanted to tank, you'd be in Earth. Wisdom bonus? Not enough. There's no way +2dc is equivalent in power to your playstyle as +10-13% doublestrike is to mine. Even when Water stance was bugged a few weeks ago to give +25% dodge, I still never saw another monk using it. Why is that? Surely 25% dodge is powerful, but even then, it had no identity. Fire is for Ki, Air is for DPS, Earth is for Tanking. Water is for what?

I'm hoping the Henshin Mystic Prestige will give Water stance a purpose.

[Yazzman]

Human light GMoF in GM Fire with Jidz. Obviously I'm a gimp and should reroll immediately.

[edgarallanpoe]

Edit: I get that some prefer that kind of playstyle, and that's fine. I'm not one to judge that.

Really? Given the condescending tone of your posts that seems to be *exactly* what you are doing.

I have several monks and all of them are capped and viable for any quest the game has. I have both light and dark and every race except Elf. My Horc runs almost exclusively in Fire stance....why? BECAUSE HE IS A FRIGGIN HORC AND THAT IS WHAT HE WANTS! lol

The game is about having fun...and if running a Monk in fire is fun the I say go for it. Is it uber DPS? No. Is it uber defense? No. But a fire stance monk is more than capable of running any content in this game. He/she is far from a gimp just because of the stance. Monk bring so much more to the table than just an elemental stance.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

Unless I want the saving throw boost of Water 3...

Also have Fire 3 but never ever ever need it...

Ki is never an issue...never...

But I am not a Dex Build...

4 level ups in Strength

2 level ups in Constitution

14 Starting dex with +3 Tome

3 Tiers of Wisdom from GMoF so Far

Mobs save on a stun very rarely.



15 Starting Wis with +4 Tome

[mrtweakin]

Air and Earth for the reasons mentioned already.

Even with GMoF on a dark monk I find air stance and +Ki generating items to be pretty capable of keeping my Ki high enough to constantly spam high dps strikes. An argument could be made for going Fire if you didn't have Ki generating items for sure

Earth III is pretty awesome. I find my fingers get really bored when I am in it though I am hoping with overwhelming crit getting fixed this will become even better.

Water is just not very good. It really needs a buff. Yes, there are edge cases where getting an extra couple DC might get your QP to land in EE, but yeah.. the sacrifice made for it is too great. You are giving up a lot of DPS and chance to land additional strikes (compared to air).

[MaxwellEdison]

Murderthumbs is a Human Shintao, Str/Wis based. I run in GM Earth, combined with 300% HA To maximize my survivability for soloing/duoing epics and the new quests. With orchid+drifting lotus+cleave and great cleave you can just jump into the group of baddies and keep firing away AoEs while tabbing around to toss out stuns and healing curses, the more targets cursed the more HPs recovered by the cleaves. Super fun.

[Arlathen]

GM Fire 4 for my Longsword WSS build. Consider:

Additional Ki on Strike (+1)
Additional Ki on Critical Hit (+5) (Crit Range 17-20)
25% Healing Amp Insight Bonus with Epic Jidz-Tetka
+2 Tactical Feat DC for Stunning Blow

It's a nice package of effects for Ki/Cleave/Kukan-Do/FoL/ spamming build that has over 400% Heal Amp, Vampirism weapons and is madly using every GMoF destiny ability when off timer.

All 4 stances have there uses for different builds. To say otherwise is limiting your choice in your build.

[IllOracle]

GM of Fire until my Amp gear is finished (light monk). I need one shard from 'Deeps' then I'll probably respec to another stance. With Oremi's and Fire stance, I routinely have more ki than can be used.

Hijack question for the other light monks: Anyone able to get more than 2-4 HP back from FoL?

[Arlathen]

Hijack question for the other light monks: Anyone able to get more than 2-4 HP back from FoL?

Yup, 4-8 per hit, with 4-12 per hit from Vampirism, dual wielded weapons for a potential total of 12-30 health regained per attack swing. Dual cleaves for a good topper.

400% or more Heal Amp Required:
30% Human Improved Recovery
30% Monk Improved Recovery
10% DT Eldritch Rune
20% DT Tempest Rune
25% Jidz Insight Bonus
30% GS Pos3 Weapon / PDK Gloves
= 398% rounded, which actually translates in game to 400% and a 4-8 FoL attack.

[edgarallanpoe]

Yup, 4-8 per hit, with 4-12 per hit from Vampirism, dual wielded weapons for a potential total of 12-30 health regained per attack swing. Dual cleaves for a good topper.

400% or more Heal Amp Required:
30% Human Improved Recovery
30% Monk Improved Recovery
10% DT Eldritch Rune
20% DT Tempest Rune
25% Jidz Insight Bonus
30% GS Pos3 Weapon / PDK Gloves
= 398% rounded, which actually translates in game to 400% and a 4-8 FoL attack.

Yeah but Matt, you need that healing amp because you are hitting mobs with the equivalent of a candy cane!! HAHAHAH!!!

Come on bro....didn't you read in this thread that anyone who doesn't run in either Earth or Wind is a gimp? jeeze...

:P

[Arlathen]

Yeah but Matt, you need that healing amp because you are hitting mobs with the equivalent of a candy cane!! HAHAHAH!!!

Come on bro....didn't you read in this thread that anyone who doesn't run in either Earth or Wind is a gimp? jeeze...

:P

Didn't you get the memo, Rob? Monks do all there damage through GMoF Epic Destiny now, vampirism weapons are just your means of doing resource free runs :P

Gotta move with the times, gotta move with the times...

[Kimeni]

My opionions in reference to monk and my own playstyle only:

After having played many different monks/monk lives, I've finally settled on the Wis/Str Horc Grand Master of Ocean. Spending 98% of time in Ocean Stance, and 2% of the time in Earth.

Higher saves, good AC, great Dodge, no real negative impact to DPS, and silly high DCs. The +3 passive ki regen is more amazing than it sounds, never have ki issues between Elegant Crane, a +1 ki on hit item.

Fire is meh, I used to only use it when I need +hit, which, for a number of reasons I don't need anymore.

Earth is nice for when I am specifically intending to tank.

Air is great for DPS, but that's all it does for me, and Monks are so much more than just DPS. Air is helpful for Dex builds which tend to rely on handwrap effects/SA more for damage, and the additional hits really do add up.

[goodspeed]

It's a flip. I'll go wind if I feel the healer has everything going nicely. But if heals are a lil sketchy then I'll go fire for the extra amp. If heals are really screwed up, then it's mountain time cause im gonna need all the hp and dr I can get.

Hate really isn't an issue as no hate gear on the monk and unless i'm really trying the tank usually keeps it.

Now if I didn't have a ki item be it a robe, or the necklace or anything, then fire would prolly be my main stance as I spam everything. I spam the sun to hit finisher, I spam the water for the healers sp, I spam the light dark finisher. All the while spamming the element finishers one after the other in between the durations. Lots and lots of clicking going on.

[Dalsheel]

Playing a Helf dark monk with rogue dile

I use GM Fire most of the time for the extra ki. I use monk special attacks almost every hit so ki is never enough for me

When I solo I often use GM Ocean for the extra survivability and the higher DCs on stun/QP

I hate Earth stance cause gets me too much aggro and I end up losing a lot of DPS from SA dmg.

Wind just wont give me enough ki for my play style so it's out of the question as well.

10% doublestrike is nice, but wont keep up in DPS with constant spamming of monk special attacks.

[dpadan17]

Sure the air is nice for doublestrike and such, but with all the new gadgets and monk ki strikes, even in fire stance, I find myself spamming these so much I don't have ki sometimes. Running with a good dps group you don't get an opportunity to gather much needed ki. Call it how you like it but it's all about play style. Someone said you can just not use any abilities on the next mob.....why?!? That's what ki is for. So wind is nice but fire does wonders. Also the healing amp is a boost of win as well. Other than that I switch to earth for the Prr and 110 ac. Makes things quite nice

I do agree ocean is only useful for dc's. But hell, if you can't get your wiz up enough then it's time to reroll or tr....Having a twist for +6 in stunning abilities makes running in fire worthwhile

Here's my order

1. Fire 2. Earth (close 2nd) 3. Wind 4. Ocean.

[Rawel_San]

Someone needs to explain to me how they manage to keep ki up outside of fire stance. In anything other
then epic elites I have constant issues with ki even in fire stance.

Every 6 secs stun, every 6 secs QP, cycling mountain strikes 3 of them mean almost no down time.
If in GMoF you get another 3-4 abilities that have 6,15,15 second timers that should always be timered.
If god forbid you are a dark monk there's ToD that should be timered 100% percent of the time.

When my QP lands reliably and I'm in a party with at least one caster I'm always just about able to keep
my ki up between the amount of winging and mobs that die too fast for me to get any ki.

[DevHead]

Someone needs to explain to me how they manage to keep ki up outside of fire stance. In anything other
then epic elites I have constant issues with ki even in fire stance.

Every 6 secs stun, every 6 secs QP, cycling mountain strikes 3 of them mean almost no down time.
If in GMoF you get another 3-4 abilities that have 6,15,15 second timers that should always be timered.
If god forbid you are a dark monk there's ToD that should be timered 100% percent of the time.

When my QP lands reliably and I'm in a party with at least one caster I'm always just about able to keep
my ki up between the amount of winging and mobs that die too fast for me to get any ki.

High Wis + High Concentration = great passive generation and you can hold your ki for longer and it decreases slowly.

There are items that also give +1 Ki per hit.

Crane animal path in enhancements for bonus Ki on crits.

I think there's higher generation in GMoF and you have a Ki clicky for about 70 avg Ki per use, cooldown is 3 minutes, I think.

[Taimasan]

Someone needs to explain to me how they manage to keep ki up outside of fire stance. In anything other
then epic elites I have constant issues with ki even in fire stance.

Every 6 secs stun, every 6 secs QP, cycling mountain strikes 3 of them mean almost no down time.
If in GMoF you get another 3-4 abilities that have 6,15,15 second timers that should always be timered.
If god forbid you are a dark monk there's ToD that should be timered 100% percent of the time.

When my QP lands reliably and I'm in a party with at least one caster I'm always just about able to keep
my ki up between the amount of winging and mobs that die too fast for me to get any ki.

Sounds like you need to take a look at your attack score.

[drakwar]

Earth, with a very small side order of water


Earth : extra hp, extra damage on crit, sunsoul set proc and extra prr loverly defence + a whole buunch o haste clickies.

Water : for when that extra saves are just needed and when sittng at begining of quest, for the extra passive ki gen. gota charge that epic moment .... oh and of course extra dc for when ya moment is charged.