Ranger 18/rogue 1/monk 1 ???

[redoubt]

I've been away for about 8 months. Anyone still play builds like this?

Mine was Dex based AC and full trapsmith. I did decent damage but relied on not getting hit to survive. I did well in anything that was not epic and did okay in epic. (But epic isn't the same epic anymore?)

Anyway, I'm still pretty confused about the changes I've been reading about and I'm trying to decide how/if to start back in.

Thanks.

[wax_on_wax_off]

AC is more useful in epic content so you'll see yourself getting hit less from enemies that always used to hit you but you'll get hit more by enemies that always used to miss you.

There's more enemy types in epic than ever before so you'll see less DPs more often making ranged not very attractive (elf is the main one to add in last update, constructs before that but all the usual suspects are still very present). Tempest III is rubbish while Tempest I/II are still decently strong (tempest II is the sweet spot I think due to its low cost).

Perhaps do a TR into another build you'd like to see all the changes in the game? If not, it's pretty easy to get into epic normal or hard content (it's just like heroic normal or hard) but best to leave epic elite alone (it's a meaner version of the old epic).

[shadereaper33]

Personally, I found that the AC changes make it better to go 18ranger/1rogue/1fighter and use light armor rather than the monk splash. Unless you have a really high wisdom, you will get more AC out of the light armor now, and you get some PRR to go with it.

[Willibold]

Alternatively go 12 ranger/6ftr/2 rogue. Loads of fun!

[redoubt]

What is PRR?

[Ape_Man]

AC's changed but typically you'll see a bunch of misses in Epic Hard content with like a 65ish AC, do not neglect Dodge and incorporeal and blur. My 18/1/1 can solo anything on Epic Hard. I know that about as impressive as being able to pee without getting your shoes wet but it's well within the capabilities of the character.

Thing is you can get almost the same AC and more PRR in light armor so the robes/bracers thing is out-dated. I guess handwraps are still cool situationally but the monk level's just not as good as it used to be. it's not bad enough for me to LR it out but I doubt I'll keep it when I TR again.

Epic elite . . . I've only seen misses on 120ish AC heavy-armor fighters.

Typically I'm Fury of the Wild with Lithe, Extra fort, and Extra Action boosts twisted in. Unyielding Sentinel's Defense and threat are really nice but the raw-damage of FoTW is just awesome on a tempest. You're pretty much an 800 HP "barbarian" who has the options to take Quicken + Maximize for big and un-interuptable CSW. FoTW has a lot of "per swing" damage options that really add up with 100% off-hand attacks.

I'm thinking LD with Sense Weakness might be better but need to experiment more.

For FEs I went with

- EO
- Elf
- Undead
- Giant (thinking this is gonna become aberration soon)

Thing is when your on destiny (FoTW) you're getting so much additional damage per swing that not being an FE isn't as important as it used to be. My current thoughts are focuss your FE's on what you're going to fight in Epic Elites because everything else isn't difficult enough to matter.

Tempest II is still the sweet spot, I'm hoping that changes with the ENH pass.

[Ape_Man]

What is PRR?

Physical resistance rating. every X amount gives you % based damamge reduction similar to the old Shield Mastery or Monk Earth stance.

[Thrudh]

Personally, I found that the AC changes make it better to go 18ranger/1rogue/1fighter and use light armor rather than the monk splash. Unless you have a really high wisdom, you will get more AC out of the light armor now, and you get some PRR to go with it.

Yeah, monk splash is pointless for AC... light armor is better.

If you're interesting in remaining mostly ranger, I'd suggest 12 ranger/8 rogue or 12 ranger/7 fighter/1 rogue.

I'm waiting to see what the enhancement changes look like, but I'm seriously considering 12 ranger/8 rogue for my twf evasion character.

[Thrudh]

Thing is you can get almost the same AC and more PRR in light armor so the robes/bracers thing is out-dated. I guess handwraps are still cool situationally but the monk level's just not as good as it used to be. it's not bad enough for me to LR it out but I doubt I'll keep it when I TR again.

This... Not bad enough to for me LR out of it, but once the enhancement changes are in, and I start TRing again, I doubt very seriously I'm going to bother with a monk splash anymore.

[Thrudh]

Typically I'm Fury of the Wild with Lithe, Extra fort, and Extra Action boosts twisted in. Unyielding Sentinel's Defense and threat are really nice but the raw-damage of FoTW is just awesome on a tempest.

Don't you lose a lot of AC when using the Fury of the Wild abilities?

[Ape_Man]

Don't you lose a lot of AC when using the Fury of the Wild abilities?

Like it matters when I have 800ish HP, 250+ CSW, and a Torc?

[GlassJaw]

I'd suggest 12 ranger/8 rogue or 12 ranger/7 fighter/1 rogue.

I'm waiting to see what the enhancement changes look like, but I'm seriously considering 12 ranger/8 rogue for my twf evasion character.

This is good to know. I've been messing around with a dwarven Rng 12/Rog 7/Ftr 1 (Tempest 2/Assassin 1) build as a fun/solo character.

Is it better to take Rog 8 or splash 1 level of Fighter? Rog 8 gets Imp Uncanny Dodge but Ftr 1 gets another feat and some decent enhancements.

[Ape_Man]

This is good to know. I've been messing around with a dwarven Rng 12/Rog 7/Ftr 1 (Tempest 2/Assassin 1) build as a fun/solo character.

Is it better to take Rog 8 or splash 1 level of Fighter? Rog 8 gets Imp Uncanny Dodge but Ftr 1 gets another feat and some decent enhancements.

A dorf with the right gear and twists can get a respectable stunning blow DC, that fighter level might be worth it.

[Thrudh]

This is good to know. I've been messing around with a dwarven Rng 12/Rog 7/Ftr 1 (Tempest 2/Assassin 1) build as a fun/solo character.

Is it better to take Rog 8 or splash 1 level of Fighter? Rog 8 gets Imp Uncanny Dodge but Ftr 1 gets another feat and some decent enhancements.

I'd take 8 levels of rogue for Improved Uncanny Dodge... 20 seconds of 50% dodge in a bad situation is pretty huge.

[redoubt]

Does 14 ranger still give freedom of movement?

I don't see anyone talking about level 14 as a desired break point of ranger levels. Is FOM not what it used to be?

[mwgarn]

FoM got nerfed, it only works against Hold person now... no longer works against things like earth grab, I still like the 18/1/1 break down though I am having a tough time deciding on monk or fighter.. a break down on ac for wis vs ac/prr for light armor might be nice.. I'll dig around to see what I come up with but I'm not very good at that type of thing

[unbongwah]

I'd take 8 levels of rogue for Improved Uncanny Dodge... 20 seconds of 50% dodge in a bad situation is pretty huge.

I thought it was only 25%? Regardless, though, it's a nice perk, particularly as it's now on a timer rather than being a limited-use-per-rest thing. Rogue 8 also grants access to W&S Mastery III for +15% (60% total) boost to (Cure) wands and (Heal) scrolls; that's pretty significant if you're trying to be a self-sufficient toon.

[redoubt]

FoM got nerfed, it only works against Hold person now... no longer works against things like earth grab, I still like the 18/1/1 break down though I am having a tough time deciding on monk or fighter.. a break down on ac for wis vs ac/prr for light armor might be nice.. I'll dig around to see what I come up with but I'm not very good at that type of thing

Doh!

Does it work on the rest of the stuff or only hold person?

What about hold monster? Fog spells? Grease? Disco? Web?

[daniel7]

Cure Serious can be huge on the right build though.

[Aerendil]

Cure Serious can be huge on the right build though.

This is the key to an 18/1/1 or even a pure Ranger = maximize + CSW. Being able to self heal for 200 to 250+ with the right gear.

I just recently swapped up my Ranger to be more of a deep-splash (with Rogue), and I instantly found that was the one thing I missed. No more max+CSW for in-combat heals.
If you rely on UMD for heal scrolls, you're swapping out your weapons, which results in lost dps. Not to mention you have to either kite, or invest in Concentration, or your scroll heal will be interrupted (whereas blue-bar can just Quicken and keep going).

Then again, I wasn't happy with the dps of a pure or mostly-pure Ranger prior to epic levels either, so sacrificing CSW for better dps seemed a good deal.