Ideal debuff weapons/setup.

[sapreaver]

Hi, I'm playing a kinda support role fighter and I need some help figuring out ideal weapon combinations to get the most out of my debuffs.

I'm a level 17 dwarf fighter.

I have whirlwind attack, cleave, and great cleave am I missing any AoE effects besides supreme cleave?

Right now my weapon setup consists of
All of the are dwarven war axes.

cursespewing slowburst/ improved cursespewing
strength sapping of enfeebling/ paralyzing of vertigo
Improved Roaring/???

I know I need to get improved destruction in there and regular destruction as well I haven't found any weapons with that quite yet.

My ideal curse spewers will be
+ 5 cursespewing of destruction/ +5 improved curse spewing of improved destruction


I was wondering what other debuffs will I be able to find to stick on my axes, what ax will go good with my roaring ax? Stench?

Don't say I shouldn't be playing this type of character.

[Dwarfo]

Well, if you really want to debuff stuff, find a +5 Metalline PG Curespewing of Improved Destruction, put it in your offhand, then use a GS LIT II in your main, and you should be alright...I guess. Also pick up improved sunder, great debuff for high level raid bosses. It reduces fortitude on a succesful save and reduces fortification and AC on a failed save.

[countfitz]

Dragon Touched Armor my friend! (For the Destruction, that's what most of my toons have on theirs).

I know some new armors in this update offer a few cool things, but if you need Destruction, and can't slot it anywhere else, this is the place!

Also look into non dwarven axes. There is a dagger in the Madness chain that has a bunch of debuffs I thnk. Daxes really limit you.

And, since you're not all worried about max DPS, but a thematic debuffing build, that sounds about right.



Final thoughts though... Fighters get some SWEET debuffs on their own, you know(?). Sunder, Improved sunder, stunning, tripping, etc. And are easier to build for and won't get you weird glances.

I think this build is fine though. The wife has an elf scimitar FvS debuff melee toon. Mostly cause, about halfway through building her, we just realized she could NEVER get any resonable DPS that way... so yeah.

[ShadowFlash]

I'm probablly in the minority, but I carry a ton of de-buffing D.axes on both my kensai hybrid and battle-cleric, and I love the axe of famine. I've tried numerous times to get away from it, but I keep coming back to it. By far my favorite de-buffing axe, and works on red-names and below quite nicely and stacks with most other de-buffs.

As a minor example, the dogs in lords of dust (including bastion) were a giant pain in the kiester for me pre-U14 epic to melee (solo). Axe of Famine reduced them to puppies I could kill at my liesure. I tried various other de-buffs and still wound up using famine.

I know the math says it stinks, but give it a try.

ShadowFlash

Edit: the polycurse dagger off-hand is nice, but it's very buggy to use as a hot-swap because you have to (re)equip the Sustaining Symbiont to avoid self-cursing each time you swap....as nice as it is, for me that was a deal-breaker.

[MRMechMan]

I would not worry about destruction. Hitting enemies in this game has never been easier.

Unless you are ranged, in which case nothing can help you much.

Cursespewing is still nice, but mob to-hit doesn't matter much anymore. It's nice for casters that instakill, however.

I will also add-improved shattermantle-6 less SR is HUGE for instakillers in some content, and it always lands with no save.

Wounding of enfeebling or something similar (think its possible on Daxe?) can also be good in some content.

[unbongwah]

I would not worry about destruction. Hitting enemies in this game has never been easier.

Destruction isn't for the AC debuff, IMHO, it's for the stacking fortification debuff. Imp Sunder + Destruction + Imp Destruction gets you up to 22% fort reduction.

[ShadowFlash]

Destruction isn't for the AC debuff, IMHO, it's for the stacking fortification debuff. Imp Sunder + Destruction + Imp Destruction gets you up to 22% fort reduction.

Does Destruction and Imp. Descruction still stack? I thought they fixed that a while back?

ShadowFlash

[lanthan]

The virulent poison suffix looks like it would a good way to do stat damage with out giving up as much in the way of hp damage. It does 1d6 hp damage on hit plus burst damage on crit as well as 1 stat dmg on hit and 1d6 on crit. It comes in dex, str, or con variations. The hit and crit stat damage are matched.

I haven't tested to see just which monsters are affected by poisons after the immunity nerf, depending on how many monsters are vulnerable to it, it should make a good debuff weapon.

[sapreaver]

Okay, right now I'm a kensai II, should I sort of respec a bit and focus more on the debuffing aspects, I know i would be losing out on some bonus weapon damage and the extra crit range.

How ever I could sort of specialize in a ride variety of weapons. Runed femur with improved crit and such.

I would just need to focus on attack speed right?

[ShadowFlash]

Okay, right now I'm a kensai II, should I sort of respec a bit and focus more on the debuffing aspects, I know i would be losing out on some bonus weapon damage and the extra crit range.

How ever I could sort of specialize in a ride variety of weapons. Runed femur with improved crit and such.

I would just need to focus on attack speed right?

Kind of a strange question IMO. De-buffing is something any toon can accomplish, and I don't know that anyone creates a build specifically for this purpose. Typically, Battle-Clerics, Bards, Etc, will focus on de-buffing weapon sets because they are not primarily DPS and bring other non-melee related contributions to a group. For these toons already playing at least a partial support role, it makes sense to melee de-buff as well to further contribute to the group.

A "straight-up" melee toon focused on de-buffing is kind of a waste, because others will do that to boost your primary DPS role. I'm not saying you shouldn't carry an assortment of weapon sets to de-buff things for yourself as you see fit ( I do, but then again, I'm part bard on top of kensai II ), but a melee build is not typically a "support" toon...rather, they take advantage of other support toons to increase total party DPS.

Ask yourself, that if you decide to "spec" for de-buffing as a primary role, who are you catering your services to ? I personally would never consider building specifically for a primary de-buffing role....secondary sure, but not at the expense of your primary role, which if fighter, is DPS, then tactics. De-buffing outside of tactics, is simply a weapon swap away...no "speccing" required.

ShadowFlash

[MRMechMan]

Ask yourself, that if you decide to "spec" for de-buffing as a primary role, who are you catering your services to ? I personally would never consider building specifically for a primary de-buffing role....secondary sure, but not at the expense of your primary role, which if fighter, is DPS, then tactics. De-buffing outside of tactics, is simply a weapon swap away...no "speccing" required.

ShadowFlash

I'm not even sure how one *would* spec for debuffing. I guess the AOE melee attacks...it really is 90% a gear issue. Other than pumping your crafting levels...

[ShadowFlash]

I'm not even sure how one *would* spec for debuffing. I guess the AOE melee attacks...it really is 90% a gear issue. Other than pumping your crafting levels...

I thought his implication was a few different Improved Critical Feats for one, so he wouldn't be "locked-in" to one weapon choice, referenced by the Femur comment (a club). Reminiscent of the "Weapon Master" PrE from NWN PRC...which would be kinda cool in DDO. I guess you'd also avoid Kensai as well, although that hurts tactics a tad, so thematically stalwart doesn't mesh as well....I dunno...just wanted to nip disappointment in the bud so to speak.

ShadowFlash

[dubyprime]

Virulent poison, constitution and virulent poison str.

[Meetch1972]

... like Vertigo (trip) and stun effects.

Nothing like knocking multiple melee mobs senseless on your way past them for a few seconds so the rogue can do 1.5x sneak attack damage on stuff while you move on to the casters.

Re the argument against cursespewing/destruction - often there is indeed no need for anything that lower's the mob's AC, but those effects applied by anyone helps everyone hit the mob far more often than without - especially those classes that don't get full BaB (my main's past lives with rogue levels always had issues hitting Malicia in epics without at least one of improved curse or destruction, with some reasonably decent gear, so would regularly switch the GS for destruction effects to help the DPS out). However, with the latest combat changes, the difference may not be so great...

[sapreaver]

As far as I have been told all weapon based debuffs stack, I've personally seen cursespewing and improved cursespewing stack.

I'm going to do some research now.