Druids and spell focus

[MrToby]

I've been planning my caster druid a lot lately and from what I've seen around on the forums and people's builds they tend to go Evocation focus, but I can't help but think why? Creeping cold has no save, which is the standard nuking spell, what do people want their evocation saves for? Sunbeam? Earthquake? Myself I was leaning more towards Transmutation for Entangle, even though it's far less efficient than Web, it doesn't seem like druids have a strong CC capability, compared to sorcerors or wizards, that is. I also wonder if druids actually need a spell focus at all? Could always take mental toughness/imp/epic instead, but it would only grant a max 460 SP, which is hardly worth the 3 feats it costs.

The question is: do druids need spell focus feats, and if yes: why transmutation or evocation?

[idle1]

I've been planning my caster druid a lot lately and from what I've seen around on the forums and people's builds they tend to go Evocation focus, but I can't help but think why? Creeping cold has no save, which is the standard nuking spell, what do people want their evocation saves for? Sunbeam? Earthquake? Myself I was leaning more towards Transmutation for Entangle, even though it's far less efficient than Web, it doesn't seem like druids have a strong CC capability, compared to sorcerors or wizards, that is. I also wonder if druids actually need a spell focus at all? Could always take mental toughness/imp/epic instead, but it would only grant a max 460 SP, which is hardly worth the 3 feats it costs.

The question is: do druids need spell focus feats, and if yes: why transmutation or evocation?

If you making a caster druid, call lightning will be one of your main attacks as you level, and it has a save. At higher level mobs will start to save it unless you pump the dc and one of few spells that works nice on demons. While you can use the creeping cold combo, a 1-2 of call and natures balance will 2 shot many mobs. The light nuke has a save for blindness and there's the fire/cold aoes/body of the sun, which need all dc can get as the druids bane is evading mobs, and earthquake is so nice its worth it, the 2 most dangerous mobs clerics and mages have weak reflex save, mobs on butt for longer = less healing.

[threefeetunder]

Well let's see here, on the evocation side we have:
Produce Flame (no save)
Creeping Cold (no save)
Call Lighting
Salt Ray
Flame Strike
Ice Storm
Call Lightning Storm
Wall of Fire
Greater Creeping Cold (no save)
Word of Balance
Body of the Sun (fire elemental stance only)
Fire Storm
Jaws of Winter (winter wolf only)
Sunbeam (amazing damage on undead/oozes)
Earthquake (very good cc)
Snowslide (winter wolf form only)

On the other hand, here's the transmutation spells (who even have a DC):
Entangle
Quench
Snare
Spike Growth
ice flowers (water elemental form only)
...and that's it.

Conjuration gets 3 spells (fire seeds, creeping doom and storm of vengeance).

Overall, you just get more bang for your buck if you go evocation. The grand majority of the nukes druids get are in that branch, and you even get decent cc with earthquake. There are some interesting options, like enchantment if you go wolf form (howl of terror is excellent cc and very spammable, especially if you keep procing that temp sp on crits), but overall evocation is the safer bet.

Now as for whether you need them, if you plan on nuking anything whatsoever, yes. The problem is that you basically doing a sorcerer's job with the sp pool of a wizard, and with generally lesser spells and a pretty awful prestige class. The caster aspect of druids could definitely use some buffing (more spells, better prestige and elemental form).

[Bumbaragum]

Im playing a caster druid. I splashed 2 levels of a fighter at 17 and 20. Currently Im lvl 18.

I use greater creeping cold to one shot mobs. I use it and ran and keeep running till they are dead.

icestorm/earthquake/ storm of vengeance/firewall (use it alot while leveling)/Call lightning/ and some water or fire form spells all have saves and none Spell resistance and also a low level spell that stun mobs for 6 seconds dont recall the name.

feats.

1 toughness
3 Maximaze
6 spell focus evo
9 greater spell focus evo
12 heightening
15 Quicken
18 mental toughness
fighter feats shield and improved shield mastery
Human feat improved mental toughness. You can drop mental toughness line and greater spell focus for 3x natural fighting and improved critical at level 21. More melee spec

While Im walking and eartquaking things I doesnt seems that earthquake has a save mobs are immune or triping.

Max wisdow and con put the rest in dex for a little higher reflex save. I only saw one more caster druid on my server and we both where glad and having fun with the build.

[MrToby]

Thanks for the replies, after some consideration Earthquake will probably be better at CCing than both spike growth and entangle, so I'll roll with evocation focus.

Thanks!