NEW best wiz race

[Meat-Head]

Hello DDO Brethren and Sistren,


I've done some maths on end-game INT scores and necro DCs. (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...4&postcount=16)


I'm thinking that EDs have been a bit of a game changer on Wizzys in terms of race.

WF wizzys can acheive DCs OVER 50 now. So, the extra 1-2 from human/drow seems less important than ever.

Additionally, the increase in drow AND the CRs on Epic Elites makes SPELL PEN the big deal.

Consequently, I propose that the definitive best race for end-game DC wizzys is now ELF. Which, I find kind of kewl "Lore-wise" or whatever. The +4 spell pen and 80 SP from Elven enhancement lines is worth more than 1-2 DCs now IMO.

I might put the new wizzy race rankings this way:

1. ELF
2. WF
2.1 Human
2.2 Drow
3. Others

Just my OP obviously.


Thoughts?

[djsonar919]

I'll take my nearly 700hp Human Wizard with 51 Necro DC and 40 spell pen any day over an elf. But rank however you like. I'll continue to play my wizard just the way he is.

[Meat-Head]

I'll take my nearly 700hp Human Wizard with 51 Necro DC and 40 spell pen any day over an elf. But rank however you like. I'll continue to play my wizard just the way he is.

The ONLY problem with this is that you'll only be getting through the worst drow spell pen about 50% of the time on epic elite.

Obviously this is still a strong caster. But spell pen matters. 40 is the new mediocre. :/

[Rawel_San]

Considering my elf has 650hp without any of the new gear and once he gets LR'd will be able to hit
58/61 spell pen along with the 54-5 sustainable necro DC I would have to slightly agree.

That said though given where the current cutoffs are for SR it seems a human with 3wiz/3 fvs past lives still wins
since he can hit those numbers while getting possibly better ending int and more con.

[Armus]

Drow is still tops

DC = 55
SP = 47
Enchant DC = 49
hitpoints = 645

And no, I'm not at max. with a bit better gear, I could hit a DC of 57, SP = 48, Enchant = 50, and hitpoints of about 680. But hey, if I had nothing to work on, I'd be bored.

[Meat-Head]

Drow is still tops

DC = 55
SP = 47
Enchant DC = 49
hitpoints = 645

And no, I'm not at max. with a bit better gear, I could hit a DC of 57, SP = 48, Enchant = 50, and hitpoints of about 680. But hey, if I had nothing to work on, I'd be bored.

Spell pen of 47 is NOT no-fail on EE Drow. That's my whole point. IF you're going for maximum effectiveness on EE, you are looking at Elves now.


http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...ight=spell+pen This point indicates EE drow have been seen at CR levels of 45.

This makes their SR 56.

Let's break it down a bit:


Max SR on a WAIL (for example)


25 levels
3 Enchancements
2 SP feat
2 GSP feat
4 ESP feat
3 draconic twist
3 Magister
2 SP 9 item
2 Arcane Aug 9 item?

=46

You want to hit NO FAIL on EE Drow, you need to make up TEN points of SR. (I may very well be missing something)

NINE are available from past lives.


Again, I could be missing something, but My point is that the 4 Spell Pen from Elf is now more important than 1-2 DCs with regard to the most difficult content.


Some will say: Who gives a ****, throw a web on em. That's fine. I didn't say that Humans were INEFFECTIVE.

I'm just saying that Elves are probably better now.

[Malky]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...ight=spell+pen This point indicates EE drow have been seen at CR levels of 45.

This makes their SR 56.

Hmm iirc drow spellpen = CR+10, so that's 55 and since afaik you don't fail spell pen checks on a 1, you need a spellpen of +54 to pass all checks for cr 45 drows.

[Faent]

Hmm iirc drow spellpen = CR+10, so that's 55 and since afaik you don't fail spell pen checks on a 1, you need a spellpen of +54 to pass all checks for cr 45 drows.

Above, I wasn't assuming you failed on a 1. I was assuming you had to beat SR, not tie it. But I don't know which it is. You're indicating that tying the SR beats the check. Is that right?

[Faent]

I'm inclined to say Warforged is tops now. Because Archmage is tops, and Archmage's should be Warforged. If you want to be a Pale Master, then Elf looks good. Thing is, Elf isn't needed for the Spell Pen. So Human still wins for the Pale Master.

[Rawel_San]

I'm inclined to say Warforged is tops now. Because Archmage is tops, and Archmage's should be Warforged. If you want to be a Pale Master, then Elf looks good. Thing is, Elf isn't needed for the Spell Pen. So Human still wins for the Pale Master.

It isn't needed assuming you have 6 past lives. Not everyone has 6 past lives.

[Faent]

It isn't needed assuming you have 6 past lives. Not everyone has 6 past lives.

Fair point. =)

[Meat-Head]

It isn't needed assuming you have 6 past lives. Not everyone has 6 past lives.

Yeah, this.

[Armus]

how can you say archmage is tops? The classes are pretty evenly matched last time I saw assuming a necro-aligned archmage v pm. Is AM really hitting that much harder than a pm? i crit for about 2600 and easily hit for more than 1k a pop - couse I just prefer to FoD and be done with the mob. And the change to Wail has been of some benefit more than hinderence.

[goodspeed]

how can you say archmage is tops? The classes are pretty evenly matched last time I saw assuming a necro-aligned archmage v pm. Is AM really hitting that much harder than a pm? i crit for about 2600 and easily hit for more than 1k a pop - couse I just prefer to FoD and be done with the mob. And the change to Wail has been of some benefit more than hinderence.

I think it's because with a pm your focusing on death. Only problem is the new content where everything is, is dc as well as high pen based. That's not to say the things that you can't do it on. So you gotta jack up those stats and for the others you have to use the reg crowd control spells heightened like web.

Now an AM gets the extra sp, but more importantly gets these cc spells that work on dc alone that can be jacked up for really nothing at all. It's a spamfest of cc sla's. So the archmage has moved ahead in content. They could still do the same thing in old content but the pales do it better as (well even that points been already debated with numbers and necro school vs lich form and whatnot) they zerg in heals pumping and insta kill everything.

Course it's no shocker it was obvious when they described the new content and changes that pales were taking a backseat in efficiency.

Anyway as for race i'd say either human for PM simply because why not. And for an AM either the robot or you could even go for a helf with a cleric dili. I enjoyed the one I made.

[Armus]

i could see losing one DC for 4 spell pen. One note though, don't forget you can twist in draconic tier 3 destiny for 3 more SP. I'm still not convinced that elves are the best class but the thought occured to me some time ago that they would be lots more desirible. But even a 55 DC FoD is also not no-fail. I usually have to roll a 9 or 10 to pen a high epic drow and even then they have about a 30% chance to save (estimated). Now I could buff that to a 59 on 10 minute very limited timers or even a 65 with the destiny effect, but i just don't think the current system fully supports a no-fail kill. Fortnately, we are still a very high percentage kill.

So since there is no way to get a no-fail in both DC and spell pen, the best thing to do is level both off at the greatest possible chances. That would support the elf class provided there is no other noticeable loss (spell resist?)

edit: didn't see you included the twist. btw, I'm basing my numbers on being a fourth life wiz

[Meat-Head]

i could see losing one DC for 4 spell pen. One note though, don't forget you can twist in draconic tier 3 destiny for 3 more SP. I'm still not convinced that elves are the best class but the thought occured to me some time ago that they would be lots more desirible. But even a 55 DC FoD is also not no-fail. I usually have to roll a 9 or 10 to pen a high epic drow and even then they have about a 30% chance to save (estimated). Now I could buff that to a 59 on 10 minute very limited timers or even a 65 with the destiny effect, but i just don't think the current system fully supports a no-fail kill. Fortnately, we are still a very high percentage kill.

So since there is no way to get a no-fail in both DC and spell pen, the best thing to do is level both off at the greatest possible chances. That would support the elf class provided there is no other noticeable loss (spell resist?)

edit: didn't see you included the twist. btw, I'm basing my numbers on being a fourth life wiz

Max Necro DC on a max spell pen elf:

18 base
3 enchancement
4 tome
3 insight
1 exceptional
8 item
2 ship
2 yugo
6 levels
2 capstone
2 lich
6 destiny
1 twist

=58 int

Necro DC:

10 base
9 spell level
3 focus item
24 INT
1 lich
1 sf necro
1 gsfnecro
1esf necro
3 magister
1 wiz PL
= 54 dc?

Did I miss something somewhere? You're claiming to have higher.

[Armus]

Int
20 base
6 level
8 item
3 tome
3 enhance
6 destiny
2 twist (don't have the sorc sp yet)
3 exceptional
2 capstone
2 ship
1 litany
+2 yugo
+2 store
+2 lich
___________
62 int = 26 mod

(obvious room for additions: +4 tome, another twist, abashai cookies (i have several sets), and alchemical pots (too short a duration))

Spell DC
10 base
9 spell level
2 focus item
26 INT
1 lich
1 sf necro
1 gsfnecro
1 esf necro
3 magister
1 wiz PL
= 55 dc

(with additions, max DC of 58)

What's the 3 from a focus item you had quoted? I haven't seen an epic necro focus item yet.

[Meat-Head]

What's the 3 from a focus item you had quoted? I haven't seen an epic necro focus item yet.

Fancy New Staff

[LOOON375]

It' s a matter of opinion and it will differ from one person to the next.

[gerardIII]

It' s a matter of opinion and it will differ from one person to the next.

This. They can all perform very well, there is no best. It's like asking what's best between a wizard and a sorcerer, they can be both great. It's the player behind it that makes it bad or good.