So what are new AC benchmarks?

[aurum1]

Didn't have much time to dig around last night, but jumped on my SD to see where he stood - somewhere around -
95AC
8% dodge
67 physical resistance

I thought from the lamania forums that the numbers were going way up? Am I missing something or totally gimp? Really need to dig through and figure out right feats/gearset/enhancements for the new system.

[HeartOfSteel]

My SD tank was actually based on Sirgog's build and it seems to be quite ok even with the new changes.

Stats are something like :

- 116 AC ( nearly 75 % chance of defense at level)
- 10 % dodge
- 72 PRR ( around 33-34 % damage mitigation)

Btw most of the Ac bonus comes from armors and shields, for example dropping the insight +4 Ac results in a 2 % change of the defense's chance with my stats.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I think the real trick is going to be working out an ideal accepted % miss chance to aim for on different builds that maximises the return on investment.

Perhaps at level 20 something like:
Casters/Barbarians: 40%
Regular DPS: 55%
Monks/Rogues/High AC DPS: 65%
Tanks: 70%
(this can include reasonable party buffs like shield of faith and barkskin)

The % is only based on your level and above level 20 most builds won't see an increase in AC so the % is going to drop. Is it reasonable for the above build styles to get those % miss chances without making significant sacrifices in other areas? Drop 10% off for level 25? (which still leaves tanks at 75% miss chance in combat expertise before other factors, right?)

[RS-Makk]

I was looking at the character sheet and couldnt figure out where to find the dodge% and the PPR.. where should I look?

[QuantumFX]

I thought from the lamania forums that the numbers were going way up?

They’re going to scale up. But, the spreadsheet gurus are also including stuff like epic gear and epic destinies. So, everybody will probably suck for a while. (ex. Running Epic Elite Beyond the Rift will probably be a lot better in a group of geared L25's rather than the “What was considered ‘uber’ on 6/24/12” L20's.)\

I was looking at the character sheet and couldnt figure out where to find the dodge% and the PPR.. where should I look?

Your character sheet, on the mouseover for your AC breakdown. It's at the bottom of the popup.

[RadioactivePiranha]

PRR is listed next to the elemental resistances. Dodge is listed when you mouse over AC. When it gives the defense chance at level though it doesn't include dodge in the % (I think. A rogue or barb could probably confirm by hitting uncanny dodge and then mousing over again to see if that changes).

[sephiroth1084]

PRR is at the end of the row that has your Energy Resistances.
Dodge is found at the bottom of the tooltip when you're looking at your AC on the character sheet.

My paladin is at 118 AC I think with Combat Expertise on and without any buffs (he's a couple levels into Unyielding Sentinel with 3 ranks in Shield Prowess, and the Defensive Bulwark epic feat...or whatever it's called), and is somewhere in the 70s for miss chance. PRR is in the 60s, but I only have Shield Mastery right now, no Improved. Still trying to figure out what to do with my feats.

[aurum1]

Ok so having CE off accounts for much of my AC question. Still need to take aa deep dive into enhancements, feats, and gear. I think having the T3 cav plate and epic kundarak shield not be 'heavy' in the new system hurts. Probably best to replace most of the gear with lvl 21 lootgen I fear.

[XCubertx]

20 Fighter/Stalwart III. 135 AC, 102 PRR.

[sephiroth1084]

20 Fighter/Stalwart III. 135 AC, 102 PRR.

I'd like to see a breakdown on that if possible.

[SSFWEl]

with the AC changes, as a Rogue, I hit now 43 AC with my epic utility vest. I can slot another 4 to a ring from natural. It's supposed to be not "all or nothing" anymore, so is this worth it?

Should I spend a slot on the +4 natural armor to hit 47? This is with only a +1 dodge.

[Kinerd]

The whole point of the change is that there aren't really hard benchmarks anymore. My cleric with a 50something AC and no dodge has a 40something% defense chance at level 20, whereas before she had a 5% defense chance in anything higher than Gianthold.

The old system: no return on investment, no ROI, no ROI, no ROI, sudden huge ROI
The new system: no ROI, a little ROI, a lot of ROI, a little ROI, very tiny ROI

Several of my guildies made high AC characters before u14. I polled them all to check out their defense chances, and was frankly disgusted at how little their work amounted to. The big losers were the characters who put huge effort into tiny increments at the very high end. The big winners were the characters who were running around in plate mail and shields anyway, for instance divines. They suddenly got significant AC and significant PRR.

[aurum1]

The whole point of the change is that there aren't really hard benchmarks anymore. My cleric with a 50something AC and no dodge has a 40something% defense chance at level 20, whereas before she had a 5% defense chance in anything higher than Gianthold.

The old system: no return on investment, no ROI, no ROI, no ROI, sudden huge ROI
The new system: no ROI, a little ROI, a lot of ROI, a little ROI, very tiny ROI

Several of my guildies made high AC characters before u14. I polled them all to check out their defense chances, and was frankly disgusted at how little their work amounted to. The big losers were the characters who put huge effort into tiny increments at the very high end. The big winners were the characters who were running around in plate mail and shields anyway, for instance divines. They suddenly got significant AC and significant PRR.

For a true tank there are still benchmarks.
In the old system I knew what I needed to hit to make Lob or ToD or any tankable raid much easier. With the new system there will still be important levels where healing a tank is easier than powering through with DPS, it just isn't clear yet what those values are.

[sephiroth1084]

Several of my guildies made high AC characters before u14. I polled them all to check out their defense chances, and was frankly disgusted at how little their work amounted to. The big losers were the characters who put huge effort into tiny increments at the very high end. The big winners were the characters who were running around in plate mail and shields anyway, for instance divines. They suddenly got significant AC and significant PRR.

Yeah, I'm not thrilled with how little all the gear I had matters compared to someone slightly less geared, especially in light of many of the new items (even random loot) that can bring someone fairly close to my AC and PRR values. I feel like the drop-off in return is much too harsh, though it means that at some point, a little more AC is simply worth less than other values, freeing up some item slots, AP or feats.

I do like that in content where my AC was previously useless (or almost useless), it is now quite noticeably effective alongside PRR.

I'm wondering whether I should ditch my Dodge items on my paladin and fill those slots with other things...I could, for instance, ditch my Epic Grim's Bracelet and Tharaak Bracelet, move my GS HP helm to my neck (or drop it entirely) and equip both the new Purple Dragon Knight 3 piece set and the 3 piece Abishai set (Cloak, Boots, Bracers) for +3 to-hit, +3 damage, +3 Str, +6 AC, but I'm still also trying to figure out where I can fit a Devotion item...

[Xyfiel]

I am thinking a good place to start is x armor + y prr = 200. I have a feeling this will hit 250-300 on the uber tank builds, but it should be plenty before getting every feat/gear slot/enhancement to perfection. And going from 200-300 isn't going to be that much due to the ROI.

[shadowspeaker]

Currently my pally is 107 AC, 6% dodge (capped), 67 PRR self buffed. 71% chance def at lvl

I am using Crystal Cove plate with alch def on it, Hound Towershield (master touch scrolls) alch def on it as well and epic chimira fang and crown full dragon marks.

In lvl 21 content my health seldom drops more than 50 points.

edit: 1st life toon http://my.ddo.com/character/khyber/sylphi/

[sirgog]

Initial thoughts: The #1 benchmark now for a fighter tank is something that might surprise people. It's 40 Reflex save raidbuffed.

You will get hammered with spell damage and at a much higher DC than pre-MOTU. We pegged Epic Elite Lailat's save DCs as between 47 and 52 in the test server completion (they were 42 on pre-U14 Epic) and there is a big difference between taking 100 from Efreeti DBFs and taking 260 (or from Lailat's Chain Lightning which is even more damaging, don't get me started on the Cometfall).

The difference between 115 AC and 118 AC is pretty small (~2% difference in physical damage taken), whereas if Lailat's save DC is 50, the difference between a 38 and 40 Reflex save would be about a 7% difference in spell damage and a sharp reduction in the amount of time you spend on the ground after Cometfalls and similar.

Giving serious thought to TRing Argental into a ½elf Paladin dilly. (I'd consider a Dwarf too with Dwarven Spell Defense but the healing amp loss is unacceptable)

[Scraap]

Initial thoughts: The #1 benchmark now for a fighter tank is something that might surprise people. It's 40 Reflex save raidbuffed.

You will get hammered with spell damage and at a much higher DC than pre-MOTU. We pegged Epic Elite Lailat's save DCs as between 47 and 52 in the test server completion (they were 42 on pre-U14 Epic) and there is a big difference between taking 100 from Efreeti DBFs and taking 260 (or from Lailat's Chain Lightning which is even more damaging, don't get me started on the Cometfall).

The difference between 115 AC and 118 AC is pretty small (~2% difference in physical damage taken), whereas if Lailat's save DC is 50, the difference between a 38 and 40 Reflex save would be about a 7% difference in spell damage and a sharp reduction in the amount of time you spend on the ground after Cometfalls and similar.

Giving serious thought to TRing Argental into a ½elf Paladin dilly. (I'd consider a Dwarf too with Dwarven Spell Defense but the healing amp loss is unacceptable)

Pretty much why mine's still sitting at 18 while I debate whether to throw in monk in light armor for an extra couple feats. Functionally, very little difference for an S&B Defensive PRE between light and heavy armors at present. Not even when dropping the shield. But then, the lions share of it's coming from the PRE in that scenario, vs lighter inherently armored setups, like kensai, ranger, ect.

[MRMechMan]

Initial thoughts: The #1 benchmark now for a fighter tank is something that might surprise people. It's 40 Reflex save raidbuffed.

THIS.

And also, fort. Guildy was getting critted by epic elite velah with 125% fort for ~450-500 damage.

[fco-karatekid]

...The difference between 115 AC and 118 AC is pretty small (~2% difference in physical damage taken)...

It's interesting you use this turn of phrase. Is THIS what the % chance to defend means - overall combined dmg mitigation? I am still trying to get a sliderule to be able to assign a single metric to this AC system...