Kicked with not chance to explain...

[sweez]

Add 2 more for ship buffs (1 CHA, 1 skill)

Boat buff to skills is luck so it won't stack with GL item enhancements

[Osharan_Tregarth]

What about AP? Do you understand that Action Boost has 30 seconds CD. Compare +25 % add direct weapon damage and +30 % attack speed. I don't know(as I said I never took Haste Boost). Do Haste bonus and Boost bonus stack? Or do they multiply?

Even if you get more damage: what about those 3 wasted AP(you use only Haste Boost)? May be, but it is not my choice.

A large chunk of a typical rogue's damage comes from sneak attacks.

30% attack speed boost means 30% more sneak attacks.

[kailiea]

My bard has 45 umd without any buff, without any exc bonus. Rogue cannot do the same. 39 - you want.

My rogue has a standing 42 umd and 75 hide and move silently, 60+ Dc for traps/locks etc, 519 hps and a 46 dc assassinate, Haste boost 4 and she did it all by not gimping herself and going drow.

You are clearly a new player who "believes" they know what is optimal. The sad reality is that there are many DDo vets that actually "know" what they are talking about. You need to sit down and research all your options and learn how to build rogues properly, which will come with time......

[Osharan_Tregarth]

A large chunk of a typical rogue's damage comes from sneak attacks.

30% attack speed boost means 30% more sneak attacks.

AirbornedChild, I'd prefer that we keep these discussions in the thread instead of you sending me semi insulting pm's. I won't repost your pm here, since that's a violation of the rules unless you give me permission. But I will repost my answer to you here to continue the discussion where everyone can contribute.

So.. On a typical rogue, how much damage do you do on the front numbers? (The first one, that shows up on your character sheet when your weapons are equipped).

That's the ONLY ONE that is boosted by the 25%. That means it's fantastic for classes that can hit a 50+ str score. It pretty much sucks for any other classes that can't hit over a minimum threshold for front damage numbers.

On a rogue, who does *whatever* damage for a front number, and then an extra 10d6 plus gear effects(minimum) for sneak attacks, the sneak attack numbers aren't touched at all by the 25% bonus. So with the rogue haste boost, you get 30% more sneak attacks. It's also why most dps rogues are twf'ing, since they need to get more attacks in to get more backstabs in.

[jkm]

While at work waiting on a cycle to finish, I calculated that a Rogue on live can have a 54 UMD buffed with 8 base CHA. I think that's encroaching on no-fail Mass Heals. Let's see since I can look stuff up now...

40 is 8 base, +2 tome, +6 CHA item, for +3 mod, +3 from Cartouche, crafted Good luck +2, 2 skill mastery, Spider mask, +6 GS item, 23 ranks. Very easily obtained, and that's with no buffs, including ship buffs.

+2 good luck can either be slotted on an epic item or comes on rogue armor that everyone will want post expansion (with the ac changes). I normally count GH because hot swapping charisma items locks my screen up like no one's business (UMD lag is 100% worse for me than shroud lag ever was).

[AirbornedChild]

SA damage improving confirmed. Damage Boost affects SA damage.

Just check it out. Well, what weapon do you use? How many on hit effects does it have? Only 1 - you'll not gain high advantage with haste Boost and will keep some AP. 3-4 and more - use Haste. But do not forget about improved critical, without this feat Damage Boost with Keen weapons can be better.

Task: Kron'Zek vs Lightning 2 scimitar. What is better with Damage Boost?

[Osharan_Tregarth]

AirbornedChild, I'd prefer that we keep these discussions in the thread instead of you sending me semi insulting pm's. I won't repost your pm here, since that's a violation of the rules unless you give me permission. But I will repost my answer to you here to continue the discussion where everyone can contribute.

I've been told by someone reasonably reliable that I was incorrect about the damage boost no applying to sneak attack damage.

However, I do still stand by my stance that 30% more attacks is going to be much better than 25% damage boosting.

[AirbornedChild]

It is so funny how people want to teach me how to get active PLs on 1st life rogue, how to get Litany and other rare gear in few months(when some players cannot get blank SoS for 3 years).

Just remember. When I'm saying something, I am saying what i said. I know. about PL bonuses.

Most of players even do not know that brad's song are better than GH and still want Gh to be casted on them. I will not do again what I've already done. Go teach someone other.

PS I call Extend gimp feat. Soon it will be truth.

[jkm]

I've been told by someone reasonably reliable that I was incorrect about the damage boost no applying to sneak attack damage.

However, I do still stand by my stance that 30% more attacks is going to be much better than 25% damage boosting.

Around 4% better.

[AirbornedChild]

AirbornedChild, I'd prefer that we keep these discussions in the thread instead of you sending me semi insulting pm's. I won't repost your pm here, since that's a violation of the rules unless you give me permission.

Check your join date. Check mine. I know that Damage Boost affect all phys damage. You didn't. How can it be possible?

Somehow I know more than old player(even it is the only information about Damage Boost).

[azrael4h]

Most of players even do not know that brad's song are better than GH and still want Gh to be casted on them. I will not do again what I've already done. Go teach someone other.

Who is Brad and why is his song better than GH? Why you no like my Bard? Her songs are just as good as Brad's!

[AirbornedChild]

Some offtop.

Haste+Haste Boost : 1+0.15+0.3=1.45

Haste+Damage Boost : (1+0.15)*(1+0.25)=1.4375

delta = 1.45 -1.4375 = 0.0125

epsilon = 0.0125/1.45 = 0.00862... or 0.9 %

Haste bonuses are additive, not multiplicative.

It is nearly 1 % damage for 3 AP.

But... If you'll use madstone boots(+20 %)... I'm not sure but if they replace Haste:

Boots+Haste Boost : 1+0.2+0.3=1.5

Boots+Damage Boost : (1+0.2)*(1+0.25)= !!!!!!!!!!! 1.5

!!!!!!!!!!!! 1.5 = 1.5 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell me if I made something wrong.

Some Theory dream now, just for lulz:

Boots+Haste+Haste Boost : 1+0.15+0.2+0.3=1.65

Boots+Haste+Damage Boost : (1+0.15+0.2)*(1+0.25)=1.6875

Выводы делайте сами, я выдал, что в голову пришло. А больше по этой теме пока придумать не могу. Это для русских, ведь они тоже есть.
English version: Think what you want. I made all I could.

[Mithran]

Having established this, Drow are my favorite race and I've been very happy with my many builds of Drow characters. Anguirel is great fun to play and a high Intelligence helps for Assassinate (or it used to).

I've read some Salvatore but don't have the same awe of his writing many seem to, so that wasn't a factor in my choice of race. That being said, many are huge fans of Salvatore and many of his fans don't build characters well.

I'm hurt that you'd cringe at my joining your party, Gawna.

[Richtenfaust]

It is so funny how people want to teach me how to get active PLs on 1st life rogue, how to get Litany and other rare gear in few months(when some players cannot get blank SoS for 3 years).

Just remember. When I'm saying something, I am saying what i said. I know. about PL bonuses.

Most of players even do not know that brad's song are better than GH and still want Gh to be casted on them. I will not do again what I've already done. Go teach someone other.

PS I call Extend gimp feat. Soon it will be truth.

I picture literally *everything* you type being spoken with an incredibly thick Russian accent in my head...and it makes my day so much better. Thank you.

[Richtenfaust]

Some offtop.

Haste+Haste Boost : 1+0.15+0.3=1.45

Haste+Damage Boost : (1+0.15)*(1+0.25)=1.4375

delta = 1.45 -1.4375 = 0.0125

epsilon = 0.0125/1.45 = 0.00862... or 0.9 %

Haste bonuses are additive, not multiplicative.

It is nearly 1 % damage for 3 AP.

But... If you'll use madstone boots(+20 %)... I'm not sure but if they replace Haste:

Boots+Haste Boost : 1+0.2+0.3=1.5

Boots+Damage Boost : (1+0.2)*(1+0.25)= !!!!!!!!!!! 1.5

!!!!!!!!!!!! 1.5 = 1.5 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell me if I made something wrong.

Some Theory dream now, just for lulz:

Boots+Haste+Haste Boost : 1+0.15+0.2+0.3=1.65

Boots+Haste+Damage Boost : (1+0.15+0.2)*(1+0.25)=1.6875

Выводы делайте сами, я выдал, что в голову пришло. А больше по этой теме пока придумать не могу. Это для русских, ведь они тоже есть.
English version: Think what you want. I made all I could.

Holy ****, I just now got to this post...you *ARE* Russian! I completely called it!

[Eistander]

Now here's the kicker; the damage boost does nothing for high-proc'ing weapons. So your base weapon and SA may get higher, but the haste boost will offer more in terms of on-hit or on-vorpal effects. But again, what do I know?

P.S.: This of course is simply from my POV and experience.. which may be right, may be wrong, but it hasn't failed me. I just need to go back to human/helf for the next life and take advantage of the dual-boost goodness.

[AirbornedChild]

Now need to check again. Also I found smth new for me. New version of Fang of Syberis is much much stronger. AoE damage with high proc rate. TWF is nice with this weapon, really.