Kicked with not chance to explain...

[Aedra1]

First let me say that my rogue is drow and I've worked really hard to get her the HP she needs. With all my gear I'm at 379, with boat buffs at 399, and with madstone rage at 435 (and I do find it hits fairly often).

Since this is the toon I do all my selling and crafting with, there are times I' run around with just a charisma stat item and a high haggle item so my hit points are under 300 when I do this.

Since I really enjoy doing VoD runs and I still need the XP.... especially from hard runs, I hit the LFM while not in gear. I was accepted but was immediately kicked from the party with the leader only saying "WHOA! those are some low hit points, sorry" and boom I'm kicked. I didn't get a chance to explain or even put my gear back on... though I did send a tell after the kicking (with not response).

Honestly, I'm not hurt or upset, but, I think allowing someone a chance to put their "clothes" back on would have been nicer. And if 399 when I'm ready to start isn't enough, then fine... whateveh.

(OH and by the way the lvl 20 rogue that was in his party shows as having 376 hp and only 75% fort... and the leader (a caster) has 397.) Again... whateveh!

[morticianjohn]

We had a lvl 20 arti join our abbot the other day and his HP was showing at 49 or something. Not one person batted an eye and we went in and did the quest just fine.... granted it was an arti and they have ways of lowering their HP so in reality he was over 400 HP but still....

Sometimes I join a group and realize that I probably don't look good right now so quickly do some item swaps before anyone thinks to kick me. I've never had it happen yet (where someone kicked me due to low stats because I didn't have my 90 HP con/gfl belt on) but I do think that leaders should be reasonable. We get a LOT of our HP from gear (especially rogues) so at least ask them if they're usually sitting at 280 or if they've got some way of having a much higher sustainable HP.

Two items isn't a lot to swap and can equal 135 HP which is pretty significant going from 280 to 415 unbuffed is pretty significant.

[Enoach]

They just jumped to conclusions. It happens.

Honestly, when I see someone with lower HP than I expected (such as having Character Hit Dice * Level for HP) I first will check MyDDO to give me an idea of what was their starting Constitution. More for a frame of reference than a Auto-Kick.

I'll have a conversation with them asking about their HP, letting them know that Quest X could be brutal on Low HP characters. On more than one occasion have I had the "Oh %$#" I'm wearing my haggle gear.

Example:

Running an at level Xorian Cipher - Wizard level 8 joins and has high 80's for HP. Everyone else in the Group has 180+. A quick MyDDO showed he had a starting Constitution of 14, and no gear. While I'm receiving tells from the sorcerer in the party telling me how this guy will die over and over again and hurt his XP by 10%. I have a brief conversation. Wizard was new, but willing to learn. He knew he was under geared and that it could be rough but wanted to come any way.

First I don't sweat 10% xp, stuff happens. Second I was the Party Leader and Healer so I was not asking someone else to take on any burden of keeping this wizard alive.

Wizard did die, but only in the last fight. He however was not the first to do so.

to the OP, don't sweat these types of things one day these people will also do something like that, be quick to be judged and find themselves where you are now

to Party leaders judging by HP, if its that much of a concern and someone joins than take the 30 seconds to find out if its just the wrong gear, if its not the wrong gear and they actually do just have low HP and you would prefer not to run with the risk - Give them a graceful out first. It looks better for everyone if they leave the group, also less hard feelings. Also judge newer players HP based on being better than Hit Dice * Level not based on months/years of gear griding.

[Eladiun]

I can understand the assumption that it's 300 with ship buffs so after you die which would be guaranteed at 300 hp you would be a sub 200 soul stone statue. The fact that he didn't reply to your tells after when you said you had haggle gear on is a bit weak but yeah, I took a sub 300 caster once to Elite VoD. (It was the last spot in a really good party.) He recalled after death number 11 before half time.

[AirbornedChild]

Also judge newer players HP based on being better than Hit Dice * Level not based on months/years of gear griding.

Agree. We should be more polite to new players. My first VoD on rogue was elite. I blew 2 boxes. I had less than 300 hp(and died 4 times summary). I didn't know about pots.

But they promised me because it was my first time. So judging by amount of HP is not correct.

PS Even legends with 10+ lifes can die in Litany. So what about new players?

[Gawna]

Did you make a drow rogue on purpose? With the cleaving orthons and devil damage, I can't say that it's surprising that you were booted for hp when someone wanted to run a hard VoD. They should have given you a chance to explain yourself. There are lots of players that are a HUGE asset to a party no matter their hit points. But if I don't know someone and I see drow rogue, I assume the worst. That is, until Eladiun sends me a tell saying, "Take them! I promise you will LOVE them!"

[Eladiun]

Did you make a drow rogue on purpose? With the cleaving orthons and devil damage, I can't say that it's surprising that you were booted for hp when someone wanted to run a hard VoD. They should have given you a chance to explain yourself. There are lots of players that are a HUGE asset to a party no matter their hit points. But if I don't know someone and I see drow rogue, I assume the worst. That is, until Eladiun sends me a tell saying, "Take them! I promise you will LOVE them!"

I like making you sweat.

[AirbornedChild]

But if I don't know someone and I see drow rogue, I assume the worst.

If I see halfling/human rogue, I assume even worse than drow. I saw too many failed boxes by non drow(those can afford high INT even on 1st life). Non drow rogues lack rogue skills, you know this fact.

It is like barb without Kyosho lack pds comparing to barb with Kyosho. Agree? This way non drow rogues really lack inherent rogue skills.

And yes, I'm saying about 1st life.

[jydog100]

Non drow rogues lack rogue skills, you know this fact.
And yes, I'm saying about 1st life.

What are you smoking? a first life human can get any traps in the game if played properly.
I personaly know of a human 1st life level 13 rog/6 ran/1 ftr that was one of the few rogues on the server to get the epic von5 traps when the dc's were insanely high

learn the game first before you give inaccurate "facts"

[jkm]

First let me say that my rogue is drow and I've worked really hard to get her the HP she needs. With all my gear I'm at 379, with boat buffs at 399, and with madstone rage at 435 (and I do find it hits fairly often).

Since this is the toon I do all my selling and crafting with, there are times I' run around with just a charisma stat item and a high haggle item so my hit points are under 300 when I do this.

Since I really enjoy doing VoD runs and I still need the XP.... especially from hard runs, I hit the LFM while not in gear. I was accepted but was immediately kicked from the party with the leader only saying "WHOA! those are some low hit points, sorry" and boom I'm kicked. I didn't get a chance to explain or even put my gear back on... though I did send a tell after the kicking (with not response).

Honestly, I'm not hurt or upset, but, I think allowing someone a chance to put their "clothes" back on would have been nicer. And if 399 when I'm ready to start isn't enough, then fine... whateveh.

(OH and by the way the lvl 20 rogue that was in his party shows as having 376 hp and only 75% fort... and the leader (a caster) has 397.) Again... whateveh!

pfft, it wouldn't matter if you had 600 hit points. You are going to get punted because of that "Rogue" symbol next to your name. I plan on conducting an experiment in 3-4 more lives on Peppr. How often does the completionist rogue (with 550+ hit points) get rejected out of hand for being a rogue. My current guess is 40-50% of the time.

[Saaluta]

Did you make a drow rogue on purpose? With the cleaving orthons and devil damage, I can't say that it's surprising that you were booted for hp when someone wanted to run a hard VoD. They should have given you a chance to explain yourself. There are lots of players that are a HUGE asset to a party no matter their hit points. But if I don't know someone and I see drow rogue, I assume the worst. That is, until Eladiun sends me a tell saying, "Take them! I promise you will LOVE them!"

Just for this, I'm going to make a 200 hp drow rogue and join every raid I see you in :P

Saal

Oh, with 1 level of sorc, so I can magic missile them while standing behind you

and to the OP, what's even worse is getting a /tell from a group leader asking you to join their party, then getting kicked because you have your haggle gear on instead of hp gear...has happened to my 15 arti twice Group leader, welcome to my "friend's list" ;P

[Zyerz]

In my POV, anything more than 300 HP for a Wizard, Rogue, Sorc, Cleric or bBard is decent HP.

I have decent HP on my toons, but I simply hate the "feature" that myddo grants to elitist jerks that boot people based on some numbers or gear. I luckily havent suffered this, but a lot of players get booted for whatever reason the elitist jerks give.
"Oh! You dont have Greensteels equipped? Sorry" *ding*
My old best friend left DDO for this reason. Not that he had a bad build, but he was f2p and got into quests with my help.

So if he wanted to run a raid without me, he'd get booted because he didnt have greensteel items... (He played only on weekends, it would've taken him a loooong time to craft greensteel gear) I hate it that others can view your toon's gear and stats like that. New players get booted a lot because of this, and honestly, it sucks.

[FranOhmsford]

What are you smoking? a first life human can get any traps in the game if played properly.
I personaly know of a human 1st life level 13 rog/6 ran/1 ftr that was one of the few rogues on the server to get the epic von5 traps when the dc's were insanely high

learn the game first before you give inaccurate "facts"

He/She's not giving "inaccurate facts"

They're talking from experience.

Drow Rogues tend to be set up for traps {First life characters - At low levels you learn that traps are important - You don't learn that this isn't the same at high levels}.

I too have seen plenty of rogues {and rogue splashes} blow up trapboxes - Incl one TR who thought he could do Tempest Spine Elite with 1 level of Rogue - He couldn't - I was on my Elf Acrobat at the time.

Too many people on these forums assume that everyone has the best gear at all levels - You instantly started talking about Epics {even though the OP was talking about VoD} and we all know Epic traps are less hard than Gianthold.

Too many people on these forums advocate dumping Int on a rogue - Those people playing Drow Rogues {1st life} aren't reading these forums - They aren't dumping Int - They will have 0 chance to Crit fail if they have the right gear.
Human/Halfling etc. may very well be able to crit fail certain traps - Even if that's only on a 1 Murphy's Law insists that it will happen at the worst possible time.

[ResEvil6370]

1st impressions are important - and alot of people use myddo and try and find out about the person hitting the lfm - best just to con-up before you hit lfms. It's the same as dead toons joining - always unnerves me, means they just wiped or even worse spend time in PvP. (or /deathed...)

[Spoprockel]

He/She's not giving "inaccurate facts"

They're talking from experience.

Drow Rogues tend to be set up for traps {First life characters - At low levels you learn that traps are important - You don't learn that this isn't the same at high levels}.

I too have seen plenty of rogues {and rogue splashes} blow up trapboxes - Incl one TR who thought he could do Tempest Spine Elite with 1 level of Rogue - He couldn't - I was on my Elf Acrobat at the time.

Too many people on these forums assume that everyone has the best gear at all levels - You instantly started talking about Epics {even though the OP was talking about VoD} and we all know Epic traps are less hard than Gianthold.

Too many people on these forums advocate dumping Int on a rogue - Those people playing Drow Rogues {1st life} aren't reading these forums - They aren't dumping Int - They will have 0 chance to Crit fail if they have the right gear.
Human/Halfling etc. may very well be able to crit fail certain traps - Even if that's only on a 1 Murphy's Law insists that it will happen at the worst possible time.

So what does race have to do with gear? Those 2 points of extra int on your drow won't make much difference.

If people don't build their toons right they will blow up trap boxes.
If people don't have the right gear at lvl they will blow up trap boxes.
A different race won't change anything.

There's only a few people on these boards advocating dumped int on a rogue, and everytime they give their 'advice' they get called out on it.



To the OP: The first thing many, many party leaders check is your HP total. Especially if you apply on a rogue.
Keep that in mind, and equip your HP gear before applying.
I know it's silly, but some people have seen too many bad rogues with really low hp go splat after a few hits and contribute nothing to the party.

[FranOhmsford]

So what does race have to do with gear? Those 2 points of extra int on your drow won't make much difference.

If people don't build their toons right they will blow up trap boxes.
If people don't have the right gear at lvl they will blow up trap boxes.
A different race won't change anything.

There's only a few people on these boards advocating dumped int on a rogue, and everytime they give their 'advice' they get called out on it.



To the OP: The first thing many, many party leaders check is your HP total. Especially if you apply on a rogue.
Keep that in mind, and equip your HP gear before applying.
I know it's silly, but some people have seen too many bad rogues with really low hp go splat after a few hits and contribute nothing to the party.

What I was saying is that the majority of people playing Drow Rogues are actually starting with points in Int.
The Majority of people playing Rogues of other classes are NOT.

It's not 2 points difference we're talking about here - It can be as much as 12 {8-20} though unlikely I'll give you that anyone would start a Rogue with 8 Int.
Rogue Mechs and Assassins are likely to start with far higher Int than Acrobats.
Then you add up all the extra bonuses - Level Ups, Stat Items, Enhancements {Arti and Wiz}, etc. and things can get very different indeed.


I'll agree with you on your last point btw - HPs is the defining factor in DDO atm - Get used to swapping your Haggle gear back out after going shopping OP.

[Spoprockel]

What I was saying is that the majority of people playing Drow Rogues are actually starting with points in Int.
The Majority of people playing Rogues of other classes are NOT.

How do you know? I've met plenty halfling and human rogues at different lvls who were well capable of doing traps.

I've also met plenty rogues of any race who didn't have a clue how to build, gear or play their toon.


How many drow rogues and how many rogues of other races have you seen in action?
How do you know that you've seen the majority of each or even enough to make such assumptions?
How do you know if their race affected their build choices?

[FranOhmsford]

How do you know? I've met plenty halfling and human rogues at different lvls who were well capable of doing traps.

I've also met plenty rogues of any race who didn't have a clue how to build, gear or play their toon.


How many drow rogues and how many rogues of other races have you seen in action?
How do you know that you've seen the majority of each or even enough to make such assumptions?
How do you know if their race affected their build choices?

Wow - Of course I've met Rogues of all races who were quite capable of doing traps at different levels.
I've also met TRs who thought the simple fact that they were a TR meant that their Barb with 1 Rogue Lvl would have a higher DD than my pure 10 Elf Acrobat {They were wrong}.

What I can say is that I've never seen a Drow Rogue who couldn't do traps - And I've seen plenty of them.
Whereas with other races it's always a toss-up.

As for race affecting Build choices - Of course it does {this isn't up for debate}.
You don't play a Drow Rogue as a Newbie without Building for Int and Dex.
You don't play a Drow Rogue as a Vet unless you're wanting to spec for Traps/Assassinate - Most Vets know that Drow's 20 Base Int isn't needed for either though.

Since when does anyone roll a H-Orc Acrobat and dump Str/Max Dex?
Since when does anyone roll a Halfling Kensai and build for Greataxes.
Since when does anyone roll an Elf Frenzied Berserker {No really - Has anyone ever rolled an Elf Barb and actually not been annoyed with the ONLY Barb Pre?}.

[Mubjon]

If I see halfling/human rogue, I assume even worse than drow. I saw too many failed boxes by non drow(those can afford high INT even on 1st life). Non drow rogues lack rogue skills, you know this fact.

It is like barb without Kyosho lack pds comparing to barb with Kyosho. Agree? This way non drow rogues really lack inherent rogue skills.

And yes, I'm saying about 1st life.

I have created a cleric/rogue that has been able to get all traps so far at level on elite (2 levels above his current level) with just the single rogue level, he is dwarf at that as well.

And he is a first lifer. It is not the race that matters it is how the person building the character does it.

[FranOhmsford]

I have created a cleric/rogue that has been able to get all traps so far at level on elite (2 levels above his current level) with just the single rogue level, he is dwarf at that as well.

And he is a first lifer. It is not the race that matters it is how the person building the character does it.

Didn't you notice the post he/she was replying to?

He/she was defending Drow Rogues.

And he/she is right - Many many people don't build/play rogues properly and race is indeed a factor.

You play a Dwarf Cleric/Rogue and I'm betting you play it well - Doesn't mean the majority of people who play Cleric/Rogues {and there are a surprising amount} play them anywhere near as well as you do.

I tried a Dwarf Cleric/Rogue myself - Got him to Lvl 8 before I gave up and deleted him. {Could probably build him right now BUT I have more characters than I know what to do with as is.