Sorc splash advice for Wiz?

[Merlin-ator]

I run a Drow Elf Wizard (L6, max INT, max CON, rest in WIS without gear enhancements) and have found that most of my deaths in the game come from lack of SP. I mostly solo, so I am the only target other than a summoned skeleton warrior. When I run out of SP, I can't do anything but run backwards and cast weak L1 magics. I own an Eternal Wand of Cure Minor Wounds, so I can take a few hits, but just a few as I can only use it between fights. Even if I survive, I just have a worse time the next few fights. The mnemonic enhancement potions are too expensive for any use but incredibly rarely. I have pretty good gear for my level. After weighing my options (changing prestige lines occurred to me) I have decided that a Sorc splash to my Wiz would do the trick. For one, I can put my usual spells on the sorc list. I could cast spells faster. Most importantly, I will get the double SP from items.

I have a good idea about how multiclassing works - I broke a previous toon with it. But since I'm going from arcane caster to arcane caster, I was wondering how the game's logic will treat certain things. For example, will I still use my INT to cast spells that I have assigned by the sorc trainer, or will I use CHA? Will this affect my spellbook? Can I fast-cast all of my spells, just my spells up to splash caster level, or just the spells assigned by the trainer? Do the Sorc enhancements stack with similar Wiz enhancements (Wiz Flame Manipulation with Sorc Flame Manipulation)? Do the Sorc enhancements affect all of my spells, spells up to splash level, or just the ones assigned by the trainer?

I know these are a lot of questions, but I'd like to know what will happen before I give up the capstone. Thanks in advance to anyone who takes time to answer these.

[Zyerz]

Dont mix sorc levels with wizzy levels. You wont get any benefit out of it, since SP on wizzys is based on INT and CHA on Sorcs, you wont have enough points to max out both (your DC's will be very low and you sp even lower actually)
Wizzies are meant to have less SP with the benefit of being able to have all spells. While sorcs get more SP at the cost of spell selection.

Melee classes give themselves to multiclassing easily, but caster classes not that much. You sacrifice that classes true power.

[Phidius]

1 level of sorc gives 100 sp, losing one level of wiz costs you 100 sp (http://ddowiki.com/page/Spell_point)

While you could get a little more spell points by 1 sorc, the increase is trivial. The worst part is the cost you pay in losing the wizard capstone, which gives a discount to every spell you cast... and a +2 int to boot.

I would gladly give up 100 sp to get the wizard capstone on my splashed wizards. Make sure what you are getting is worth what you are giving up.

[Jaid314]

double SP from items is based on the percentage of sorcerer (and/or favored soul) levels you have.

for example, if you were to make a wiz 10/sorc 10 (note: don't do this, it's terribad and you will probably hate that character forever, or until you TR it; whichever comes first), you would get +50% SP from items.

if you made a wiz 18/sorc 2, you would get +10% SP from items.

you're much better off staying pure, and learning how to manage your SP better.

run around like crazy, get the enemies into groups, and (at this point in the game), turn around *while still running backwards away from them* you should jump in the air (the level 1 spell jump helps greatly with this) and throw an AOE spell. you may not think burning hands is all that impressive, but i assure you that a burning hands followed up with a scorch and possibly another burning hands or even a fireball is devastatingly effective if you do it right. (btw, you're jumping because sometimes targeting is a little borked. or a lot borked. and jumping can help a lot). i also recommend one of your level 1 spells to be expeditious retreat, it will help you stay ahead of the enemies, which will help you not get smashed into a bloody pulp by them.

you'll want the best damage boosts you can get; invest as much as possible into fire damage via enhancements, and look for an item that boosts it as well (the ideal is a superior <element> clicky, in your case for fire inferno is the name iirc, use once every 3 minutes), and potentially a lore item as well. stuff that boosts your stats is also a good idea.

also, until you get pretty good at this, *turn off all metamagic feats* (with the possible exception of quicken). at level 6, you are probably much better off throwing a second spell rather than throwing a maximised spell. burning hands + scorch is iirc a total of 10 spell points. a maximised burning hands is 29. you do the math.

save your single-target, high-damage spells for special occasions, like end-bosses. for trash, just throw lots of AOE effects, and make sure to have as many targets as you can for them.

also, another important thing... you don't need to kill *every* single enemy. if there's an archer that absolutely refuses to group with the rest of the stuff you're nuking, and especially if that archer doesn't have any way of coming after you, just keep running past. it may not be dead, but it doesn't need to be.

[Rawel_San]

Also you don't get double SP from items. If you went 1sor/19wiz you would get just 105% sp from items
so an item that would give you 100 sp on pure wizard would give you 105 on a 1/19 split.

Splashing any two different casting classes together is pretty much always a very very bad idea. You lose
a huge amount more then you gain and in some cases you pretty much just lose.

I don't want to go into a huge explanation about mana conservation but at low levels if you are soloing
and have the usual gear/skill the way to go is to grab a greataxe and hack away for much of the dungeon
and only use spell points when they are efficiently spent.
Which server are you on btw?

[bibimbap]

I run a Drow Elf Wizard (L6, max INT, max CON, rest in WIS without gear enhancements) and have found that most of my deaths in the game come from lack of SP. I mostly solo, so I am the only target other than a summoned skeleton warrior. When I run out of SP, I can't do anything but run backwards and cast weak L1 magics. I own an Eternal Wand of Cure Minor Wounds, so I can take a few hits, but just a few as I can only use it between fights. Even if I survive, I just have a worse time the next few fights. The mnemonic enhancement potions are too expensive for any use but incredibly rarely. I have pretty good gear for my level. After weighing my options (changing prestige lines occurred to me) I have decided that a Sorc splash to my Wiz would do the trick. For one, I can put my usual spells on the sorc list. I could cast spells faster. Most importantly, I will get the double SP from items.

I have a good idea about how multiclassing works - I broke a previous toon with it. But since I'm going from arcane caster to arcane caster, I was wondering how the game's logic will treat certain things. For example, will I still use my INT to cast spells that I have assigned by the sorc trainer, or will I use CHA? Will this affect my spellbook? Can I fast-cast all of my spells, just my spells up to splash caster level, or just the spells assigned by the trainer? Do the Sorc enhancements stack with similar Wiz enhancements (Wiz Flame Manipulation with Sorc Flame Manipulation)? Do the Sorc enhancements affect all of my spells, spells up to splash level, or just the ones assigned by the trainer?

I know these are a lot of questions, but I'd like to know what will happen before I give up the capstone. Thanks in advance to anyone who takes time to answer these.

You will not get double SP from items you will get the % based on how much of that class you are. I.e. 18 Wiz / 2 rogue will have less SP from a SP item than a 20 Wiz, same with 1 sorc / 9 wiz for example you will not all of a sudden get double SP.

My advice is use web, firewall, grab a WF construct barb repair him and burn everything down.

[Rawel_San]

You will not get double SP from items you will get the % based on how much of that class you are. I.e. 18 Wiz / 2 rogue will have less SP from a SP item than a 20 Wiz, same with 1 sorc / 9 wiz for example you will not all of a sudden get double SP.

My advice is use web, firewall, grab a WF construct barb repair him and burn everything down.

That is not true. An 18 Wiz/2 rogue will have the same sp from items as would a pure wiz. An 18sorc/2 pallie
on the other hand will get less then a pure sorc would.

You always get at least the base amount from items but sorcs get an extra up to 100% on top of that.

[thwart]

Also you don't get double SP from items. If you went 1sor/19wiz you would get just 105% sp from items
so an item that would give you 100 sp on pure wizard would give you 105 on a 1/19 split.

Splashing any two different casting classes together is pretty much always a very very bad idea. You lose
a huge amount more then you gain and in some cases you pretty much just lose.

I don't want to go into a huge explanation about mana conservation but at low levels if you are soloing
and have the usual gear/skill the way to go is to grab a greataxe and hack away for much of the dungeon
and only use spell points when they are efficiently spent.
Which server are you on btw?

To solve your sp problem you should probably splash 20 levels of sorcerer on your wizard. Then travel with a cleric hireling that has divine vitality. I solo most of the time. One of my characters is a 12 level water savant. I rarely worry about sp and I seem to do lots of damage.

I have tried both wizards and sorcerers, I am convinced that a sorcerer is the soloists friend.

[MsEricka]

Check the links in my signature on how to save some SP and regenerate some. A lot of the regen stuff is higher level, but saving SP can come at almost any level.

[pawpaw2000]

Stick with 100% wizard you will regret not doing it.

With palemaster you can use extend with your death aura, and use the 0sp spell that costs a few hp and the aura will keep regenerating your hp. With this you will only need to use big spells for boss fights. The free sp abilities work good enough on non-bosses. These abilities get better @ 12 and @18.

I don't think you will get much benefit from the sorc levels, but whatever you gained now you will be regretting taking it @ 20. DC is critical at 20 and losing 2 int is a big deal.

[hiryuu42]

I run a Drow Elf Wizard (L6, max INT, max CON, rest in WIS without gear enhancements) and have found that most of my deaths in the game come from lack of SP. I mostly solo, so I am the only target other than a summoned skeleton warrior. When I run out of SP

Wizards do have SP issues early on, especially if you try DPS like a Sorc.
1. If you haven't already, get what you need for Archmage. In early levels, I find it easier than Palemaster, but that's an option, too.
2. Consider Master's Touch, Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, and Rage. And a two-handed axe or falchion. You will have some trouble hitting, especially since it sounds like you dumped Str, but still effective.
3. Use crowd control, such as Web, Hypnosis, and Sonic Blast.
4. Use Charm and Command Undead to add more targets and chaos.
5. Use Cannith Crafting to make some Runestones. Their DC at this level is crazy-high.

[Kinerd]

Level 4 spells change everything. The persistent AoE DPS spells you get you will use for the rest of your character's life. Negative Energy Burst will be your spike heal for the rest of your character's life. Death Aura you will use... you get the idea.

Your biggest problem will be slotting in everything you want to use.

[Merlin-ator]

I would like to thank everyone for the advice and the warning about the extra SP, as well as the advice for how to conserve SP.

To solve your sp problem you should probably splash 20 levels of sorcerer on your wizard. Then travel with a cleric hireling that has divine vitality. I solo most of the time. One of my characters is a 12 level water savant. I rarely worry about sp and I seem to do lots of damage.

I have tried both wizards and sorcerers, I am convinced that a sorcerer is the soloists friend.

I like the flexibility afforded by the wizard, even if I do have to play quests below my level. The only problems I have are SP and people who think I need to get in the back of the group and crowd control instead of bashing heads in.

Hiryuu:
1. I need skelly tanks, and the archer looks cool. Having a (gold) free tank and hoping to find a rest shrine increases my chance of battle survival.
2. Not a bad combo, but the reason I cast is because it's more satisfying to make a kill. I'll test it out sometime.
3. I'm a big fan of Sonic Blast and Electric Loop. The only annoyances are the range, one reason I like ray spells. Looks like I need the Enlarge feat when I can get my next bonus feat.
4. I have Charm, but I've never used it. I prepare Command Undead whenever I can, though >
5. That looks pretty cool. I'll need to level up Crafting some more.

Kinerd: just looked at the CL7 Arcane scrolls, and those look awesome. I've had the Rare Arcane Scroll List bookmarked for awhile now, so I won't waste my level-up spells on something I can buy from a store.

[zio_kose1]

I did a life with 10barb/10sorc for fast barb PL, and for example arcimagi item (200sp normal / 400sp sorc/fvs) give me 200SP at lv20, so u dont have any more SP, for any multiclass lv u lose -10% sorc bonus.

At lv 6 u can run all quest with only 1 spell called fireball, and for ozee or who is immune to fire, acid blast, without any metamagic active.

At lv7 u will get firewall/ice storm and u win

U say have great gear, i wanna know what u mean for great gear at lv6, have u for example robe lifeshield of invulnerability? have u chrono set? spell resist crating item or phiarlan cloak? superior inferno cliky?

Cannith crafting can help a lot.

For heal at this low lv u can use cure potions, usually i dont stay in undead-form before lv12 except in rare quest.

[thealightykuku]

I would like to thank everyone for the advice and the warning about the extra SP, as well as the advice for how to conserve SP.



I like the flexibility afforded by the wizard, even if I do have to play quests below my level. The only problems I have are SP and people who think I need to get in the back of the group and crowd control instead of bashing heads in.

Hiryuu:
1. I need skelly tanks, and the archer looks cool. Having a (gold) free tank and hoping to find a rest shrine increases my chance of battle survival.
2. Not a bad combo, but the reason I cast is because it's more satisfying to make a kill. I'll test it out sometime.
3. I'm a big fan of Sonic Blast and Electric Loop. The only annoyances are the range, one reason I like ray spells. Looks like I need the Enlarge feat when I can get my next bonus feat.
4. I have Charm, but I've never used it. I prepare Command Undead whenever I can, though >
5. That looks pretty cool. I'll need to level up Crafting some more.

Kinerd: just looked at the CL7 Arcane scrolls, and those look awesome. I've had the Rare Arcane Scroll List bookmarked for awhile now, so I won't waste my level-up spells on something I can buy from a store.

"4. I have Charm, but I've never used it."

Charm is a solo'n wizard's best friend... or more specifically the charmed monster who is now attacking his buddies and drawing away aggro is the solo'n wizard's best friend. If you have the DC's to pull it off (read as heighten spell and possibly spell focus enchantment) the charm spells are very SP cost effective and greatly increase survivability.

[licho]

The most important thing about splashing wiz with sorc (or other way around) is:
DONT DO IT, EVER!
Its just pointless, you dont get much sp even from items, and loose capstone is huge, not only from +2 INT (which is both dc and some sp) but also reducing cost of metamagic is important (on haightened web it sums ups).

What i can advice is:
- TR into WF, or just be PM
- Get a Concordat Opposition Greensteal item of whatever you like ( i prefer HP one, but it may varry)
- Get Torc from Zawabi
- Some shield with low spell failure
- Archmage item and 150 expetional SP, could be as swapable items.

And you are set.

[PopeJual]

I used to have the same problem. I got my hands on some SP items (a Shroud +150 spell point item and an Archmagi spell point item for another +200 spell points) and I still had problems with running out of spell points.

Then I ran a couple of quests with another caster who was much better at playing a Wizard than I was and he gave me some tips.

1) cast fewer spells. If you can gather up 8 orcs for a Fireball, then do that instead of throwing one Fireball at 4 orcs and then another Fireball at the second 4.

2) if you are in a party, go ahead and let the melee types kill some critters. You don't have to kill everything.

3) learn what enemies you can just run past. If you don't have to kill an enemy and it won't chase you, then you probably are probably better off just ignoring it if you are soloing the quest.

4) learn what spells work against which enemies. Wizard and Cleric types usually have poor reflex saves and poor fort saves. Burly melee types usually have poor will saves. Archer types you can just ignore because they won't usually chase you through a quest.

5) know what the quest's objective is. If you have to go grab the magic gem and then run back to the entrance, then go grab the gem and run back to the entrance. Don't fart around doing umpteen other things that use up your spell points. You don't want to start actually going after your objective when you are down to 1/4 of your blue bar.

[Simplesimon1979]

Since you menchaned you have you summon skeleton out I would guess you are a PM. So why are you healing with a eturnal cure minor wand. May as well go into zombie or waith if you have it and heal off your death aura. Plus you can use your PM SLA which cost no SP.

Also why WIS instead of STR.