Is a Kensai TWF with Bastard Swords viable?

[Zipwire]

A guildmate has returned to the game after being away for several years while serving his country in the military. He has a level 18 Human Kensai Fighter that was S+B using Bastard Swords. He says at the time he left it was a very good build but I explained many things have changed since then. He had 400 hitpoints and not dealing much damage for today's game. That AC has become meaningless at endgame unless specifically built for it and gear intensive.

He used a Heart of Wood to change to a TWF using Bastard Swords. He raised his hp to 500 but is still not happy with how things turned out. Right now I don't know the specific stats of what he did and am trying to get a look at his build on the character planner. He is a bit frustrated with all the changes in the game and it is like having to start the game all over again to relearn it. I am doing what I can to try and help him so he won't quit which it seems he is ready to do.

He has trained in real life using Bastard Swords and kind of has his heart set on using them. He says he has a good collection of them as well. From what I know dual wielding Bastard Swords is not an optimal build and told him my limited knowledge of them. He is looking for a decent survivable build with hitpoints and be able to deal dps.

I will post any specific information on his build when I can get it.

So can a TWF Kensai Fighter using Bastard Swords make a viable toon that will be accepted in groups for endgame?

Any help, suggestions and links to builds would really be appreciated!
Thanks for taking the time to read this and any help you can offer.

[HalfORCastrator]

His gear? Tomes? Packs available? First life, what? And yes, not as good as khopesh, but still decent. As long as he has a strong build it will be fine.

Have him look at eChimera fang if he might be interested in tanking, or at the f2p u13 epic templar bastard swords(x2. socketed with silver or adamantine, depending on bosses) for more general purpose dps.

[LOOON375]

I have a 1st life Drow, bastard sword wielding, TWF Kensaii that works very darn well in ALL content.

The epic bastard sword out the new chain is pretty fricken sweet. Templars Retribution I beleive is the name.

[Varashad]

Bastard swords are fine for DPS, and 500 hp is, although not good, is plenty sufficient, especially if he doesn't have his gear. +45 hp from green steel, +30 from gfl, +20 from minos, +62 from toughness feat and enhancements; the game isn't that different from a few years ago. You just need more hp and damage, both of which can be easily picked up.

The Templar's Retribution is very powerful versus demons and devils. I don't know how good it is compared to a HBGLOB weapon, but it should do just fine.

[Fishcatch22]

Assuming everything else is "ideal" besides weapon choice, using Bswords won't gimp him too heavily. Yes, his DPS will be lower than with khops, but he'll still be solid DPS. Some elitist min-maxer types might assume gimpage and deny him entries into parties, but most of these types aren't worth partying with anyways.

[Vellrad]

Even if he would dual wield sickles and hammers, with rigth gear and build, he wouldn't be too gimped to contribute.

[Kmnh]

if you have access to greensteel/epic/alchemical bastard swords, they are not terrible. It's viable.

[HalfORCastrator]

The Templar's Retribution is very powerful versus demons and devils. I don't know how good it is compared to a HBGLOB weapon, but it should do just fine.

There was a thread a while back saying that Templar weapons were better than their cannith boss beater counterparts.

[MaximusParthas]

I have that build now. 1st life 2wf human kensai III. 18 fighter 2 rogue.
great damage, (I use echimeras) evasion, intim and HP (629 atm)
Except for being somewhat needy I like it.

it's krimsonraine if you want to myddo it.

[TheDjinnFor]

Viable? Yes.

Optimal? No.

Khopesh's will, in general, out-dps Bastard Swords. Lit 2, Cannith Crafted, and eChaosblades in particular. And, pretty much without fail, they have always done so.

eFang has good utility for a S&B hate tank but the dps is sub-par in comparison. Tell him to spec to Stalwart Defender if he wants his so-called tank build to continue to be viable, although that alone probably isn't enough.

[sirgog]

Have him look at eChimera fang if he might be interested in tanking, or at the f2p u13 epic templar bastard swords(x2. socketed with silver or adamantine, depending on bosses) for more general purpose dps.

The u13 items aren't worth socketing with adamantine. LOB is resistant enough to Light damage to be effectively immune.

Khopesh is well ahead of the bastard sword - ~15% ahead on mobs without fortification and still quite a bit on 50% Fort, and so I'd suggest either speccing Bastard Sword until you can acquire top-notch Khopeshes, then respeccing. Of course, you can stick with the bastard swords if you want, but using a BS without a shield loses a lot of the weapon's power and makes it just a longsword with a small amount of extra base damage.

[noinfo]

A guildmate has returned to the game after being away for several years while serving his country in the military. He has a level 18 Human Kensai Fighter that was S+B using Bastard Swords. He says at the time he left it was a very good build but I explained many things have changed since then. He had 400 hitpoints and not dealing much damage for today's game. That AC has become meaningless at endgame unless specifically built for it and gear intensive.


So can a TWF Kensai Fighter using Bastard Swords make a viable toon that will be accepted in groups for endgame?

Any help, suggestions and links to builds would really be appreciated!
Thanks for taking the time to read this and any help you can offer.

Bastard Swords and S/B were never at any stage good for kensai at any point in the game. Until relatively recently in game they were worse due to the fact that they did not give glancing blows while used 1 handed. If he was a kensai when he left his AC would also have been meaningless when he left (in all likely hood).

Kensai dual wielding Bastard Swords will never be optimal DPS khopesh is going to win here vs anything but the highest fortification targets.
It will most certainly be viable but not top tier dps.

Another option that can be persued and is not focused soley around Bastard Sword is to look at what Bastard Swords are supposed to be and that is a 2 handed option. Going 2 handed fighting, trying to grind a ESOS and using Bastard Sword with Shield Mastery when needed and eSOS when full dps may give the type of fighting he is attempting to emulate.

[Zipwire]

Thank you everyone for your replies, I really appreciate it!

After talking with him, he seems to have totally gimped his toon using a heart of wood. Not having the required dex for twf and didn't take any thf feats. So he has to wait for a while till he can get another heart to fix it. I will definitely check out your suggestions and see what we can do when he is ready to try again.

Thanks again!

[HalfORCastrator]

The u13 items aren't worth socketing with adamantine. LOB is resistant enough to Light damage to be effectively immune.

Khopesh is well ahead of the bastard sword - ~15% ahead on mobs without fortification and still quite a bit on 50% Fort, and so I'd suggest either speccing Bastard Sword until you can acquire top-notch Khopeshes, then respeccing. Of course, you can stick with the bastard swords if you want, but using a BS without a shield loses a lot of the weapon's power and makes it just a longsword with a small amount of extra base damage.

How does a Lit2 Khopesh stack against an eTemplar's Retribution, immunities and vulnerabilities aside?

[Anthios888]

Bastard sword would be okay if he sticks with it. If he took the dragonmark feats just to bump up the damage on Chimera's Fang, it would be a great DPS weapon.

Since he's a drow, he might also look to rapiers if that's not too hard to start on. Racial bonuses and all that. Radiance II is pretty cool.

[Kargraz]

I have a friend running Kensai Bastard Sword TWF, not superbly geared, but he does good enough dps to raid with.

Some of the pro's of bastard swords are that they are dirt cheap. Large slotted and metal typed weapons go for a fraction of the price of a similar khopesh.

I still have my hpick ftr/bbn, I love him for the massive crits, and will not swap to khopesh just for the extra dps.

Go with what you want to play, not what everyone else wants you to play. That will just make you quit the game...

[DethTrip]

The first life of my bard was a human twf kensei II multiclass and I got into parties just fine. DPS is not THAT significantly less and to me, duel wielding a pair of bastard swords just looks awesome, which is why I did it. If he is a competent player, he will make friends and finding a party shouldn't be a problem.

[TheDjinnFor]

How does a Lit2 Khopesh stack against an eTemplar's Retribution, immunities and vulnerabilities aside?

Beats it versus trash.

And a Cannith Crafted easily beats it as a boss beater.

[Monkey-Boy]

Since he's a drow, he might also look to rapiers if that's not too hard to start on. Racial bonuses and all that. Radiance II is pretty cool.

So are WoPs in non-epic content. I wonder if they'll be viable in the expansion . . .