Terror Archer

[akash]

Your 42 is what typical wizards have. This is what would be higher.


18 base
5 level ups
3 enhancement
2 lich form
2 cap stone
6 item
1 litany
1 exceptional
2 exceptional
4 tome
2 alchemical
2 ship

- 48 (50 with yugo pots)

That made me confuse now, as far as I knew there is no alchemical bonus for INT and CHA right? Or am I missing something? Please help.

[tinyelvis]

Your 42 is what typical wizards have. This is what would be higher.


18 base
5 level ups
3 enhancement
2 lich form
2 cap stone
6 item
1 litany
1 exceptional
2 exceptional
4 tome
2 alchemical
2 ship

- 48 (50 with yugo pots)

42 is not the average wizard intelligence. 50% of the wizard community is not running around with any of +7 item, +4 tome, or litany. Most don't have +3 exceptional bonus. Only a minority play a drow. Your numbers are also suspect. What is this alchemical bonus to intelligence that you have?

I forgot ship buff so I would typically run with 44 before pots.

[wax_on_wax_off]

42 is not the average wizard intelligence. 50% of the wizard community is not running around with any of +7 item, +4 tome, or litany. Most don't have +3 exceptional bonus. Only a minority play a drow. Your numbers are also suspect. What is this alchemical bonus to intelligence that you have?

I forgot ship buff so I would typically run with 44 before pots.

If you only want to compare yourself to the average wizard who hits a normal shroud run, sure.

However, why build to such mediocre standards?

+2 exceptional intelligence is easily available on the spyglass, +1 is available from epic token conversion on a challenge or event item, diabolist robe is a very easy epic item to make (I bought my last scroll for it for a pittance iirc).

44 is an absolute minimum expectation. 46 is reasonable. 48 is average for a decently built and geared palemaster.

[MrCow]

Forgive me for asking a dumb question, but couldn't you effectively get the same result you are looking for from having 2 different throwing daggers

If ranged weapon debuff capability is desired and bow-based Manyshot isn't an option, then a Repeater Crossbow with Rapid Reload is likely the way to go:

• The repeating crossbow will fire more shots in a given time than a thrown weapon or a bow when Manyshot is not active (~100 bolts fired vs ~50ish daggers thrown in one minute).
• Crossbow speed is much less reliant on BAB (a 20 wizard without divine power will be near full crossbow firing speed, while the thrown speed will be about 75% as fast), so Divine Power is less necessary when using a crossbow.
• Crossbows do not have to wait for the global cooldown to expire before firing a shot (due to its unique segregation of the reload animation and shoot animation). Thrown weapons and bows will have to wait for the global cooldown to expire.
• Under damage-based decisions, Heavy Repeater and Point Blank Shot are not far off the damage that would be done via a throwing weapon and STR, on a casting-focused build.

A Half-Elf Wizard with Artificer Dilettante and the Rapid Shot feat is one of the least costly ways to do so, leaving several feats open (such as taking Improved Precise Shot, some other Past Life feats, Insightful Reflexes, or whatever suits the goals of the ranged-wizard character).

[Missing_Minds]

What is this alchemical bonus to intelligence that you have?

Long ago, and not widely remembered, collectable traders were put into house D. From them you could get bonus to your stat pots. I do not know their duration, but if I recall correctly, they were an alchemical bonus.

I think they still exist.

A Half-Elf Wizard with Artificer Dilettante and the Rapid Shot feat is one of the least costly ways to do so, leaving several feats open (such as taking Improved Precise Shot, some other Past Life feats, Insightful Reflexes, or whatever suits the goals of the ranged-wizard character).

Agreed. The draw back being not able to use AA enhancements with a crossbow. So it really depends on how much the op wants slayer arrows. I mean, he's got to roll 20s at some point.

[tinyelvis]

Long ago, and not widely remembered, collectable traders were put into house D. From them you could get bonus to your stat pots. I do not know their duration, but if I recall correctly, they were an alchemical bonus.

I think they still exist.


Agreed. The draw back being not able to use AA enhancements with a crossbow. So it really depends on how much the op wants slayer arrows. I mean, he's got to roll 20s at some point.

House D pots. LOL, I really dont think he meant that. This is not a max intel thread. Why not add cookies too while we are at it. If he meant pots he should have put +3. I am probably the only guy in the game who actually carries those things around. The intel are a pain to get because you end up getting trash potions most of time when you trade in. I rarely (pretty much never) use them. Occasionally I throw them away when i need pack space. I certainly would not post it in as a buff to intel in a thread while discussing running intel.

[uthanak69]

42 is not the average wizard intelligence. 50% of the wizard community is not running around with any of +7 item, +4 tome, or litany. Most don't have +3 exceptional bonus. Only a minority play a drow. Your numbers are also suspect. What is this alchemical bonus to intelligence that you have?

I forgot ship buff so I would typically run with 44 before pots.

You don't need a lot of gear to hit 42 int.

My wizard, first life with ship buffs is at 40.

I'm tr'ing him on tuesday, when he caps he'll have 42 with ship buffs. He'll have everything he has now but i'll be adding +1 exceptional and will be human for human adapt.

oh and the alchemical bonus. www.ddowiki.com

[akash]

You don't need a lot of gear to hit 42 int.

My wizard, first life with ship buffs is at 40.

I'm tr'ing him on tuesday, when he caps he'll have 42 with ship buffs. He'll have everything he has now but i'll be adding +1 exceptional and will be human for human adapt.

oh and the alchemical bonus. www.ddowiki.com

Even my first life wizard with with only +2 Int tome, +2 ship buffs, +2 yugo hits 49 Int, check out my signature Ashkaa but where I'm confused is about which alchemical bonus you meant? Is it House D pots or House C weapons?

[tinyelvis]

If ranged weapon debuff capability is desired and bow-based Manyshot isn't an option, then a Repeater Crossbow with Rapid Reload is likely the way to go:

• The repeating crossbow will fire more shots in a given time than a thrown weapon or a bow when Manyshot is not active (~100 bolts fired vs ~50ish daggers thrown in one minute).
• Crossbow speed is much less reliant on BAB (a 20 wizard without divine power will be near full crossbow firing speed, while the thrown speed will be about 75% as fast), so Divine Power is less necessary when using a crossbow.
• Crossbows do not have to wait for the global cooldown to expire before firing a shot (due to its unique segregation of the reload animation and shoot animation). Thrown weapons and bows will have to wait for the global cooldown to expire.
• Under damage-based decisions, Heavy Repeater and Point Blank Shot are not far off the damage that would be done via a throwing weapon and STR, on a casting-focused build.

A Half-Elf Wizard with Artificer Dilettante and the Rapid Shot feat is one of the least costly ways to do so, leaving several feats open (such as taking Improved Precise Shot, some other Past Life feats, Insightful Reflexes, or whatever suits the goals of the ranged-wizard character).

This is a good idea, but I find crossbow impractical because of ammo. Why is it less BAB reliant? An elf wizard with a bow can buff the to hit with enhancements and damage with strength. You cant with a crossbow. Also with crossbow, though ROF is high, you are stuck on one target for three bolts. With bows and daggers you can switch targets faster (at least the way I play). Bolt damage is pretty poor vs damage reduction. These are some of the reasons I hate playing my artificer.

I dont understand the point blank shot point since thrown can take point blank shot too. The biggest problem with the thrown idea is cost in crafting and pack space.

[tinyelvis]

If you only want to compare yourself to the average wizard who hits a normal shroud run, sure.

However, why build to such mediocre standards?

+2 exceptional intelligence is easily available on the spyglass, +1 is available from epic token conversion on a challenge or event item, diabolist robe is a very easy epic item to make (I bought my last scroll for it for a pittance iirc).

44 is an absolute minimum expectation. 46 is reasonable. 48 is average for a decently built and geared palemaster.

Comparing to something is not building to that standard. Interesting play on words though. As much as I appreciate your few weeks of wizard game play knowledge, I must point out that all of this talk about intel is really silly (quite amusing actually). The build here has a 16 starting intel (con, cha, and wis could be lowered to raise it but I chose not to do that). That is 2 points or 1 DC less than the typical wizard. If you want an additional point then substitute a Human for Elf. To the novice player this might look like a good idea. However, your trade off is spell pen. My experience tells me that is a bad idea. So I chose elf. Your experience with your first life wizard has obviously lead you to a different opinion.

[MrCow]

Why is it less BAB reliant?

To restate: crossbow speed is less BAB reliant. You may still need Divine Power to aid with to-hit, but the overall speed increase doesn't change much. Not the most amazing perk, I admit, but it is still a consideration with the amount of juggling required on a buff-reliant character who is using a mix of spells and ranged weaponry in unison.

I dont understand the point blank shot point since thrown can take point blank shot too.

Throwing weapons have a poor base damage (ranging from 1d2 to 1d6, a bit more for special weaponry) while crossbows have good base damage (ranging from 1d8 to 1d10, ignoring the great crossbow for this). One of the benefits of Point Blank Shot multiplies the Base Damage of a ranged weapon when used close enough to a foe. This means where a Greensteel Axe, for example, would deal 2d8 base weapon damage at point blank range, a Greensteel Heavy Crossbow would be dealing 4d8 base weapon damage.

That difference in base weapon damage between the throwing weapon and moderate STR is similar to the base weapon damage of the crossbow and no other attribute modifier, when considering Point Blank Shot.

With bows and daggers you can switch targets faster (at least the way I play).

I understand that as a perk to those ranged weapon styles. However, wasn't one of your considerations to use the ranged weapon as a form of an increase to dealing damage to bosses? If so, then switching targets may not be quite as important.

Alternatively, with the lower feat requirement to use the repeating crossbow you would be more able to include Improved Precise Shot, which increases the ability to hit those multiple targets without switching targets (if the situation allows, and if the build can scrap together the required DEX).



My apologies if some of the points I made in the earlier post weren't as clear as they could have been.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Comparing to something is not building to that standard. Interesting play on words though. As much as I appreciate your few weeks of wizard game play knowledge, I must point out that all of this talk about intel is really silly (quite amusing actually). The build here has a 16 starting intel (con, cha, and wis could be lowered to raise it but I chose not to do that). That is 2 points or 1 DC less than the typical wizard. If you want an additional point then substitute a Human for Elf. To the novice player this might look like a good idea. However, your trade off is spell pen. My experience tells me that is a bad idea. So I chose elf. Your experience with your first life wizard has obviously lead you to a different opinion.

To clarify, I've had my current wizard capped and running epics for 6+ months, I've had 2 other wizards in my time and 2 sorcerers. I've soloed raids, tanked epic bosses and performed just about all niche wizard duties and participated in some of the hardest quests in the game.

For you to say that 1 or 2 DC here or there is inconsequential shows a fundamental lack of understanding when it comes to basic game mechanics. The general outcome is that when it comes to times that matter mobs will be twice as likely to save against your spells as they otherwise would have been. You've mentioned a few times that the terror affect on arrows will be useful but iirc it only grants -2 saves after the fear wears off/successful save so after shooting them you're only on equal footing to a vanilla PM who could use the same time to debuff in other ways. Outcome is that you'll always be 1 step behind and still have the same debuff potential.

For that matter, one of the most common items coveted by a PM grants the same shaken status anyway on the Lion-Headed Belt Buckle which wouldn't stack.

Now that I think of it, I remember a pure wizard arcane archer in an epic The Tide Turns run a while ago, he spent most of the quest plink-plinking and I had to provide the CC on my rogue, we completed without issue but that character earned its way to my special friends list for sure.

[uthanak69]

Even my first life wizard with with only +2 Int tome, +2 ship buffs, +2 yugo hits 49 Int, check out my signature Ashkaa but where I'm confused is about which alchemical bonus you meant? Is it House D pots or House C weapons?

Well, that's why I'm TR'ing. Race change will net me a higher int (this life was flavor mostly, gonna be serious next life). I also don't have yugo pots yet.
And it turns out, after looking at the wiki, that you can only get Alchemical bonues to STR, DEX, CON, and WIS. (that's from house c stuff. So I apologize for including a bonus that isn't there)

[akash]

Well, that's why I'm TR'ing. Race change will net me a higher int (this life was flavor mostly, gonna be serious next life). I also don't have yugo pots yet.
And it turns out, after looking at the wiki, that you can only get Alchemical bonues to STR, DEX, CON, and WIS. (that's from house c stuff. So I apologize for including a bonus that isn't there)

Thank you for the clarification, I heard pots from house D collectors give +1 to +3 alchemical bonus to INT but I never tried that one.

[unbongwah]

Since OP has apparently made up his mind this is a great idea despite all the advice to the contrary, I'd like to hear about his efforts to actually play it. Pics or it didn't happen etc.

Oh, BTW, OP, you can't add Bow Strength to your build as posted, as you don't have all the pre-reqs.

[bartosy]

terror archer..

am i the only one who sees an elf 8 con arcane archer only firing off fear and fear arrows at mobs and 4 melees chasing the mobs throughout the instance ?

[savingsoul]

Okay, I'll be the one who admits they didn't read everything in this thread

Seriously though, I've seen a few Wizard AA's pop up recently, and in most cases I think they should just go away and let pure artys take their place. :P (At least, with a pure arty or nearly pure arty you can make an Uzy III and incorporate AA more sensibly with your already existing ranged feats.)

[kurglar]

In the end I believe everyone should make the toon which they enjoy playing no matter how good or how gimped it is.

I am sooo tired of seeing this line, its complete bull. If it were true certain classes wouldn't have problems getting into Epic groups. Oh of course if you happen to be in a tightknit guild whose members don't mind picking up the slack then yeah, by all means, go ahead and play what you want. but if its your first life be ready to TR as soon as you can or face long conversations explaining to party leaders why they should let you into the group. Don't blow smoke up people's butts. If a build is gimped for flavor don't expect to get any love from the TR's.

signed, a jaded AA

[Zyerz]

I am sure something like this has been done, however, here is my take on it. This concept is focused on using Arcane Archer abilities to augment the Pale Master. Imagine prepping your foes with terror arrows before blowing their heads up with with wail. Or hitting that pesky Drow with shattermantle shots, before fingering him. How about dropping some DOTs on Harry, then switching on Many Shot for 20 seconds of super high combined DPS. This is the goal with this build. I decided to post here, because frankly I think it might be beyond the imagination of most folks in the caster section.

Elf (True Neutral) Wizard Arcane Archer Pale Master
Starting with at least two past lives

Str 14
Dex 16
Con 13
Int 18 (<-- all level ups here)
Wis 8
Cha 8

Feats:
1) Point Blank Shot, (Spell focus conjuration... swap for necromancy later (Wizard))
3) Rapid Shot
5) Heighten Spell (Wizard)
6) Weapon Focus Ranged
9) Toughness
10) Maximize Spell (W)
12) Manyshot
15) Greater Spell focus Necro, Spell Pen (W)
18) Bow Strength
20) Empower Spell (W)

Enhancements:
Wizard Master of Magic
Wizard Pale Master I
Wizard Pale Master II
Wizard Pale Master III
Wizard Intelligence III
Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Shroud of the Lich
Elven Arcanum III
Elven Ranged Attack II
Elven Dexterity I
Racial Toughness I

Storm Manipulation VII, Deadly Shocks I, Charged Spellcasting I
Frost Manipulation VII, Deadly Ice I, Glacial Spellcasting I
Spell pen II
Elven Arcane Archer I
Arcane Archer (Conjure +2 Arrows)
Arcane Archer (Conjure +3 Arrows)
Arcane Archer (Conjure +4 Arrows)
Arcane Archer (Conjure +5 Arrows)
Arcane Archer (Imbue Acid Arrows)
Arcane Archer (Imbue Explosive Arrows)
Arcane Archer (Imbue Force Arrows)
Arcane Archer (Imbue Slaying Arrows)
Arcane Archer (Imbue Terror Arrows)

Elven Dex I and Ranged Damage II were chosen to help make up for the fact that dex is a secondary stat.In essence this makes up party for the missing stat level boosts. Elven Arcanum III was chosen to make up some spell pen deficiencies. I will choose an acid/Ice path while leveling and switch to Ice/Electric with some acid (for acid rain and BDB), and a tiny bit of force for disintegrate end game.

I think there may be some issues with to hit with bows close to cap. During leveling I will go with a +4 masterwork crafted attack item and ranged alacrity as well as top knotch bows at every level. It will also be necessary to use a divine power clicky(s). I cant believe I could squeeze in the bare minimum feats that I wanted to. I look forward to trying this out in a week or so. Frankly, I am surprised we dont see more of these out there.

Hopefully, I didn't miss some big.

Edit: ****, I missed bow strength. I can squeeze it in with past lives of wizard to make up for spell pen and taking half elf ranger dili. Or possibly replace quicken with Greater necro focus if that is possible.

I made a toon like this. Works great. Have had him for over a year now.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

One of the game play mechanical issues that will hinder this build is that casting a spell invokes the global cooldown and that bows must wait for the global cooldown to fade before being able to fire a shot. This means a character trying to mix magic and archery is going to be waiting a little over 1 second between the end of casting a spell and the start of firing the bow (which, if you are constantly reapplying damage over time spells, starts to greatly detract from your archery damage, especially in your Manyshot timeframe).

Is the reverse also true?

My previous experience with ranging casters was disappointing because it seemed I had to wait for the reload animation to finish before I could cast a spell.


to the rest: Divine Power gives him the Bab he needs.... both to hit and for manyshot.

but, I have never been able to make an archer that I liked that did not have a lot of Rgr or Ftr lvls.... there are to many feats that I think you need to be good at ranged.

although a Wizard might be able to do it..... but the Wizard would sacrifice a lot of spell feats to get good at ranged.

.. and my Wiz20 PM is by far my most powerful toon. I have weapons....but the only time I would ever consider using one is when out of mana or low on mana.

in fact, my Wizard was originally designed to have some melee ability.... but I LRed her into a pure caster.

your idea is not as bad as many here would say it is, but I think you will find that your Wizard spells are more useful than your bow.... and will want to max out your spell ability instead. (and for the record, I like bows! Rgr/AA are my favorite class.)