First time Cleric build

[neoninja9]

Hello, I'm new to DDO, been playing a couple of months now. Decided to roll a Cleric as I've never really played one before and I'm really enjoying it so far.

If I remember right my stats at creation were something like this
Str-10
Dex-12
Con-14
Int-8
Wis-18
Char-12

or something like that, now at lvl 14 all my stats, w/ gear and random tomes I find is 14s across the board with 25-ish wisdom and 17 charisma. All geared up I have about 193hp and 1100sp. Naked is probably around 180/1000 range.

My strategy has been changing as I level and get better spells and learn more. At lower levels I mostly healbotted I guess Now with a higher str and better weapons plus the healing aura I find myself on the frontlines quite a bit more, which I find helpful anyways because some spells like Slay Living have such a short range. Most of the time when a run is going good I hang back and try to focus on enemy spellcasters and other foes susceptible to fort save death spells. I am learning more about my enemies as I go, knowing when a Dismissal or Banishment isn't going to work... Casting Harm on a Pale Master heals them... I also like to help with setting up choke-points/ambushes with things like Blade Barrier and Symbols. With such powerful healing spells, Empowered Healing, gear, and enhancements keeping the party alive has become almost trivial... not that I'm bragging or ignoring my role as a healer but when an empowered Heal spell can replenish over 700hp in one shot I'm not that worried about what is hitting you. Throw in a rechargeable healing aura and we are good to go. There are still plenty of times when I can't afford to do anything except heal party members during tough fights, try to pop off a damage spell and the whole party could wipe...

I suppose my Cleric could be summed up as an Offensive Caster, capable of melee fighting to conserve sp. I can't recall all my enhancements but I definitely took my Unyielding Sovereignty and the Radiant Servant lines, with a focus on increasing my spell points and toughness. I guess what I want to know is how can I improve my game? What are some viable strategies for Divine Casters as far as actual combat?

EDIT:
Oh yeah I guess this was probs throw together a little hastily. I'll come back and clean this up later, when I build my toon on the character planner. This is kinda my first real toon and I remember it was based partially on the Benedictine Cleric on the ddowiki

My race is human

Feats: Mental toughness
Toughness
Empowered Healing
Spell penetration
Greater spell pen
...
Enhancements:
duh.. now I can't remember...

[firemedium_jt]

You can use a character generator to recreate your build here like many of us have shown. Your a little late to this party at lvl14, but welcome.

We need to know your enhancements and feats too.

http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO/

build what you got then there is an option to cut and past it here.

There are tons of threads on here for cleric advice. Just browse the forum.

There is some gear out there that is not that hard to grind you should get at lvl 14 like Green Blade and Sora Kell. Potency and Superior Ardor. Superior Brilliance V for Divine Punishment that is your boss killer, etc.

[Arachidamya]

As far as casters are concerned, clerics are the divine equivalent of wizards. Clerics are an incredibly powerful and versatile class, but ultimately, they're one of the primary spellcaster types. Since arcanes typically can't raise dead (without a lot of planning, effort, UMD and luck, anyway), your ability to revive dead party members makes the cleric's survival a primary goal of the entire party.

Mind you I would need to know your race, but I can tell you - your build sounds very geared toward divine (offensive) spellcasting. Unless your toon is a dwarf, anyway.

And, all clerics are geared to heal. Nothing heals like a cleric. At level 20, a cleric gets a total of 57 spell slots; of those, only 8 are automatically reserved for healing. Let's talk about the other 49 spells slots for a minute. ^_^

If you're a dwarf, you're sturdy enough to survive melee. Keep in mind, though, you're a cleric, not a fighter. You will be competent, but you will never dish it out like the 'true' melees.

If you're not a dwarf, but you still want to do an actual melee cleric, think about splashing in some monk. "Clonk" builds have probably the highest level of survivability of any build to date (monk moves, plus the ability to raise yourself from the dead? Yeah.) There is a huge tradeoff - you'd lose the cleric level 20 capstone enhancement, Divine Intervention, which is absolutely worth it.

If you're a drow, your Charisma bonus translates into a huge advantage Turning undead. Turn Undead itself loses value as you level beyond Necro and the Orchard toward endgame, but drow racial benefits - extra spell points and higher base Cha - are well-suited to clerics.

If you're a human, your bonus feat gives you just enough feats to build a competent, effective divine caster who (with melee cooperation) can fill the role of arcane in a surprising number of situations, including endgame. The techniques are very different, however, and there aren't a lot of melees who know how.

Turn Undead Doesn't Cost Spell Points.

Poorly understood and likewise under-appreciated. No other class gets an AOE insta-kill as a spell-like ability from level 1, but you have to invest in it: any gear effects that raise your cleric level for turning undead - such as Sacred or Hallowed, make use of the level 2 spell Seek Eternal Rest (adds 4 to your cleric level, stacks with Sacred, Hallowed, etc). Invest enhancements in it during low and mid-levels; if you invest feats, however, be prepared to change them out as you approach endgame and undead in general become less and less common.

For everything else, though...

Your most powerful offensive trap spells (Symbol spells) are Symbol of Death and Symbol of Pain. Symbol of Death is mass, persistent energy drain. It drops enemies 1-4 levels, no save, every time they enter it. Symbol of Pain is like reverse Greater Heroism; it imposes a -4 penalty to all skills, saves, etc. and works on almost everything - even epic bosses. Also, both are Necro spells. Cleric-specific gear is incredibly underpowered and pretty much totally obsolete (Radiant Servant eliminated any practical application of healing lore, ardor, and anything that increases the max number of turns you have per rest.) Luckily, palemaster gear fills in most of the blanks very nicely, with many items conferring Necromancy Focus, Efficient Empower, Efficient Maximize, Void Lore, etc.

As casters, the big weakness of Clerics is DCs. Like wizards, clerics won't deal damage like sorcerers do. Like wizards, clerics have the flexibility to focus on save-or-die kill spells, starting with Dismissal and Banish, Slay, Destruction, and the great equalizer, Implosion. Cast spells like Energy Drain or Symbol of Death, so enemies can't save against your kill spells. Pay careful attention when targeting foes; go for enemy casters first. Arcanes always have bad fort saves; divines usually have at least mediocre fort saves. Lowering enemy levels also reduces the effectiveness of their Spell Resistance, and remember - Symbol of Death has no save.

Dismissal and Banish are Abjuration - like most of your buffs and a lot of your debuffs. Divines are actually better at casting Abjuration spells than arcanes, because divines get these spells 1 level lower than arcanes. Comparing both with Heighten, the divine save is higher. For this reason, divines are quite effective at stripping enemy buffs with Dispel Magic, even from epic bosses. This is especially effective against enemies that cast guard spells (ie, lightning guard) on themselves, as well as eliminating elemental protection, boosts to saves, etc. Melees take less damage and their attacks are more effective. Also, divine buffs are harder for enemies to Dispel and beat, and divines can buff luck.

The divine damage spells are limited to a handful of alignment-based spells (as opposed to arcane elementally-based spells.) While divines rarely get purple damage from light / holy / good, they also rarely get yellow damage and these spells get bonuses (more damage, or afflicting status ailments such as blind) when cast on enemies with an alignment weakness (a Good spell cast on an Evil enemy, a Lawful spell cast on a non-Lawful target, a Light spell cast on a creature of darkness, etc.)

Clerics can also provide a surprising amount of crowd control. Cometfall does untyped blunt damage, so it dishes damage to any target it hits that doesn't save, and it also does knockdown and it has good range. This makes it an extremely reliable and efficient way of neutralizing enemy casters, who always have bad reflex saves, especially in epics, when arcanes might not have the DCs and Spell Pen to affect enemies with high spell resistance (like drow casters.) Enchantment spells like Symbol of Persuasion work like a persistent Mass Charm Monster trap; Symbol of Stunning is another good choice.

About Untyped Damage:

The arcane spell, Disintegrate, is untyped damage. Untyped damage works on everything, provided you win the roll - undead, living, constructs, everything. Blade Barrier does untyped slashing damage, for example. Implosion is like AOE Disintegrate. (Oh, and both blade barrier and implosion work through walls.)

Now, here's some thoughts about clerics in actual melee:

Keeping you alive is always a primary objective of the rest of the group - so you can return the favor. This is especially true of the melees. Any competent melee tries to stay aware of where you are (it is their responsibility to remain within range of your heals, after all) and will stop what they are doing to pull aggro off you. (Even if it kills them.) No surprise, a lot of people see clerics who deliberately get within range of enemy melees as needlessly endangering themselves, and there's a certain truth to this. If you get knocked down, stunned, tripped, etc - you are both helpless and useless. Stunning Blow, knockdown moves, etc - melee class special abilities. If a level 20 Barbarian with a buffed Raged strength of 56 can't save against Greater Trip, neither can you - and unlike the barb, you have to make a Concentration save to continue casting for every hit you take. And finally, as a rule of thumb, on the outside chance any non-healer in the group can raise, they're probably saving it. For you.

Solution? Bows!

The best balance I've found with my human cleric build is to acquire a set of Windhowler Bracers from Blockade Buster in the Lordsmarch chain. They confer bow competency; if you don't want to wait, you can pick up the faith enhancement. I like the bow backup so much, I made myself a Min 2 greensteel longbow, and kept some of the best bows I pulled as loot - a paralyzing longbow, a few named bows such as Bow of the Silver Flame (from the new Lords of Dust chain) and Destructive War Bow (from Lordsmarch crafting.) You don't have to be a ranger for a paralyzer to come in handy!

Anyway, hth

[neoninja9]

thank you, that is some helpful info!

As far as feats go I'm sure the Spell Penetration line could be swapped for something like Evocation and Necromany. The gear suggestions are great because I find I still use a lot of light and holy spells still anyways. I had kinda been ignoring my Turn Undead at lower levels because my Charisma was low, but I have invested points in it through enhancements and I think I maybe even took a Turning feat. Now that I actually have a charisma mod it is probably worth it to slot Seek Eternal...

As far as battle tactics... standing on the front is risky. Yet I think it may be a matter of when and why. When things get really heavy the best place for a healer is near the casters, they benefit from an aura just as much and when a mob does slip thru to melee one of them I can at least draw it's attention away with Harm while they finish it. In the name of sp conservation however I think any Cleric ought to be able to stand and heal where the action is.

A perfect example (from my experience anyways) is Frame Work. A balanced group is perfectly able to use minimal (ie melee) resources to eliminate the mobs outside the castle, in a situation like this I am perfectly comfortable fighting with my maces and healing on the aura alone, with maybe an occasional heal if needed. I just think something like a Rogue, I don't hit anything except what the Tank is hitting, I don't pull aggro with my spells, and in the very rare case when I hit something too hard with my mace I stop swinging. On the way to the next mob I try to make sure everyone gets some aura. This tactic allows me to save both shrines and go into the fight with a relatively full bar of sp, and more importantly a healthy party.
Once inside the castle it's a different matter... I try to stay up on the walls and ramparts and throw down mass heals, whatever it takes to keep the fighters alive. The aura as always up for ranged and casters to make use of, and when those shamans pop out I try my best to lay them out.

Bows could only add another dimension to the tactics, but is it really worth swapping enhancements for?

[Micki]

Arachidamya's post on spell casting was interesting. But you forgot the radiant servant enhancements. The bursts are great for free heals (and you can add empower, empower heal, maximize and quicken for free), and if you keep the aura going you're healing even if knocked down (it even works in water). I never run into a crowd without the aura on (I like to jump in with the melee's to throw bb, then back off, heal and throw e.g. comet fall).

[axel15810]

Just concentrate on offensive casting, not melee. With the feats and stats you have it's too late for your toon to be very effective at melee. The DPS you put out won't be worth it. Especially on your first life when you don't have access to a greensteel weapon. It's really tough to get a melee cleric to dish out effective DPS. If you planned to be a melee cleric you should have started with higher STR, lower WIS. You also should probably have planned to take the two handed fighting feats and not take the spell penetration feats. If you want to melee effectively as a cleric you have to give up on our DC based spellcasting...that is spells like command, greater command, slay living, destruction...ect. Anything that requires a save.

But good news is you've taken the right feats and have a good stats to be effective at offensive spellcasting. Your last 3 feats need to be Maximize Spell, Heighten and Quicken. I'd also recommend you swap out Mental Toughness (there's a quest to get a free feat swap token)...it's not worth it...the extra spell points are not worth the feat. I'd swap it for either empower or Shield Mastery.

For general tips make sure you're always using superior ardor VI clicky, and get someone to craft you a superior brilliance VI clicky to boost your divine punishment damage on bosses.

BB is your main CC spell, use it well.

Also for casters use cometfall and destruction for melee types. Greater command for large melee type mobs. Be careful with these spells though, they are expensive SP wise. For easy trash it is often more SP efficient to let the rest of the party do the killing...you can just heal their minor wounds with your free aura/bursts after the fight. As an offensive casting cleric you'll have to be the judge of whether it's more SP efficient to prevent damage or heal damage. The tougher the mob the more inclined you should be to throw CC spells. You don't have the SP to throw around like arcanes or favored souls. You have to use good SP management. You'll need to make sure you have SP left to heal in between shrines. Nothing is worse than the cleric who is out of SP at the boss fight because he was destructing weak kobolds that the melees could have easily killed for no SP cost. Your offensive casting freedom is also determined by strength of party, difficulty of quest and how many self-healers your group has.

Also a good general tactic is to get a good shield, cast aura and stand beside the melees and block in fights to reduce SP use (preferably do this with shield mastery feat). Also being beside the melees allows you to throw bursts to save SP. Be ready to jump out if it gets too hot in the fight. Not dying yourself is your #1 priority. Arcanes are expected to be able to self heal so you should never have to worry too much about watching an arcane's redbar. Be ready to save arcanes though in tough situations, especially fleshies that self heal with scrolls (they self heal slower than WF casters who self repair)

Take the smiting enhancement line. Arcane lore items are really good. Putting lots of healing amp on yourself is great for boosting your aura, therefore your survivability. Make sure you always have a good stock of heal scrolls on you. You can use them instead of your heal spell to save SP. And they aren't that expensive.

Make sure your presets on your spells are set to save sp. No need to quicken your buffs/summons.

Well there's some tips, really didn't mean to type this much but hope it helps.

[Willibold]

Dont know about the OP, but they have helped me. TY

[axel15810]

Bows could only add another dimension to the tactics, but is it really worth swapping enhancements for?

No. You're a caster cleric, not a melee cleric. Your to hit isn't great. If you're out of SP I'd recommend using scrolls/wands to offensive cast and heal.

[Micki]

No. You're a caster cleric, not a melee cleric. Your to hit isn't great. If you're out of SP I'd recommend using scrolls/wands to offensive cast and heal.

I think I need to start packing some offensive scrolls as well. I've been only buying heal/mass cure scrolls, so when I run out of sp on a little more difficult quest, I end up healbotting with scrolls (Thaz can melee in easier quests). And I find a cleric who is only healbotting to be quite useless.

[Mubjon]

I think I need to start packing some offensive scrolls as well. I've been only buying heal/mass cure scrolls, so when I run out of sp on a little more difficult quest, I end up healbotting with scrolls (Thaz can melee in easier quests). And I find a cleric who is only healbotting to be quite useless.

That is why I like Half Elves so much for my clerics. I can take the sorc or wiz dilly (depending on what I am doing) and get the use of arcane wands with no umd check. As well I can take enhancements that get me to an equal of 10th level of that class that allows me to use the appropriate scrolls for no UMD check as well. Now I might put points into charisma for turns, but I might not have the intelligence high enough to take advantage and grab the UMD skill while leveling as I put concentration and balance ahead of everything on my cleric.


It is nice being able to use a Wand of Fireball, cast stone skin, blur and even other useful spells like firewall and icestorm while being able to heal. Or web along with a nice sound blast to really take the mobs out of action for a few seconds.

Of course I have since taken a sorc or wiz level on the newer clerics to test out what I like better. So in those instances I have either gone human or if I stay with half elf take a suitable dilly that matches my highest score which is normally monk.

[firemedium_jt]

You could have still melee'd if you did not take DEX12 and put in into STR to make it 14. With STR10 you are pushing it with melee at this point at lvl14, and melee would have helped you more at earlier levels. Still effective, but at this time it might not be worth the changes you have to make. If you want to LR go for it and you don't care about spending DDO points to do it. All you have to do is dump DEX and take more STR.

You do not have to dump wisdom to to melee. Just get your STR to 14 base. You really need the extra early. Melee on a cleric is more about feats and spells because you don't have to many enhancements for it. Human versatiility or racial for rapiers as an elf. Helf FTR dilly. You can also splash 1-2 fighter levels and still take a high WIS. There is no law against it. You can also take just one WIZ lvl to get Master's touch spell for martial prof and force manip for blade barriers. After finding a way to get proficient in slashing weapons with nice critical ranges like falchions, rapiers, scimitars and kukri you can take just 2 feats to really help you melee. Improved critical slash or pierce, and power attack. With a starting STR 14 you will hit if you raise STR with items and spells. You can raise your to hit with enhancements like human versatility or racial.

You melee with still be 3rd rate, but much more useful and not gimp due to low STR.

I have a human level 20 CLR18/FTR2 with a WIS18 and STR14 base. He has PA always on and IC slash. He offensive casts very well, and melee has gotten him to level 20. He hits for 120-150 points of damage on a critical hit. At lvl 4 he did about 40. lvl 8 70. lvl 10 80. 100 with a seeker item. lvl 12 130. lvl 20 150.

He used keen falchions until lvl12 and IC slash. Took the FTR lvls at 2 and 14. Did some feat swapping at lvl14. Never took extend. SOS sword at lvl 10 would have really raised those numbers. Not yet.

He heals as good as a pure cleric. Not an issue.

Some pure clerics use falchions and take the -4 to hit only if they can't get a wiz to cast master's touch on them.
Melee clerics can also use haste items and rage items.

[Micki]

That is why I like Half Elves so much for my clerics. I can take the sorc or wiz dilly (depending on what I am doing) and get the use of arcane wands with no umd check. As well I can take enhancements that get me to an equal of 10th level of that class that allows me to use the appropriate scrolls for no UMD check as well. Now I might put points into charisma for turns, but I might not have the intelligence high enough to take advantage and grab the UMD skill while leveling as I put concentration and balance ahead of everything on my cleric.


It is nice being able to use a Wand of Fireball, cast stone skin, blur and even other useful spells like firewall and icestorm while being able to heal. Or web along with a nice sound blast to really take the mobs out of action for a few seconds.

Of course I have since taken a sorc or wiz level on the newer clerics to test out what I like better. So in those instances I have either gone human or if I stay with half elf take a suitable dilly that matches my highest score which is normally monk.

I hadn't even considered any of this. If or when I make a new cleric I'd be interested in trying out the sorc or wiz dilly for sure. (I like doing caster more than melee, although having enough str to do some melee is never bad) And I'd love to be able to cast stoneskin on myself (been buying barkskin pots for Thaz).

To the OP: sorry for posting a bit off topic, but as I play a caster cleric with melee ability, it's nice to learn new things about how to be more efficient. I pack heal/mass cure scrolls, and wands of remove disease, remove curse, remove poison and remove blindness. I also got a wand of resist energy, but haven't used that one too much. My spells are mass buffs, solo buffs, heals and offensives. Even with all the spell slots a cleric gets, I still sometimes have problems deciding what spells to bring to a quest. But I guess, if I took the time to check wiki before hand, I wouldn't have that problem I do suggest to buff parties though. A well buffed party will most likely not need as much healing.