DoT SP efficiency?

[sheintao]

Hi guys... caster newb questions: What's the most SP efficient way of laying down DOTs? I currently cast them immediately after cool-down.. am i wasting SP, or am I doing it correctly? Depending on the foe, I use Black Dragon Bolt (i'm acid spec), Niac's Biting Cold, and Eladar's Electric Surge.. unless the foe is immune or highly resistant to one or more of them. Are these the only (non AoE) DOTs?

Thanks!
-Scott

[WruntJunior]

Examine the foe, and right before it wears off, cast the DoT again (with enough time that it never wears off). This will get you a few extra seconds for every cast, which is essentially a free cast every few casts.

[Thebeest]

i would say cast immediately when off cool down until you get all 3 stacks on, then you can wait til 1 or 2 seconds left before recasting.

[sheintao]

Great, thanks guys

[SupTyr]

Also for maximum sp efficiency you could cast the first two niacs/eladars with maximize disabled ..

[sheintao]

Also for maximum sp efficiency you could cast the first two niacs/eladars with maximize disabled ..

Why?

[HungarianRhapsody]

I have two hotbar icons for Niacs and two for Eldar's. One has Empower/Maximize set "always off" and one has Empower/Maximize set "always on". I'll use the first button twice as soon as the cooldown is done and then I'll hit the third button as soon as the cooldown is done on the second no-meta DoT.

From then on, I'll wait a couple of seconds after the cooldown is done to save some SP, but I won't wait until the last second because I don't want lag to force the stack to start over from scratch.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Why?

Because the first DoT only does 1/3 the full damage and the second DoT only does 2/3 the full damage, so you might as well wait until the third DoT to turn on Maximize/Empower and pay 60 SP instead of just 20.

[Enoach]

As for the Why you can use un-Meta'd versions for stack 1 and 2

The power of 3 is based off its Meta's, it does not matter what stack 1 and 2 are.

What I will do on a Boss Fight is select the boss and press Z. I will then lock the examine screen. This will show me the stacks and time remaining.

Cooldown is 10 seconds, stacks last 15 seconds. You have roughly 4 seconds to reapply.

[Miahoo]

Why?

In order to save sp...

The Damage is calcualted by: Total Damage = Stacks * Last Spell's Damage.
Casting the 3nd DoT with metamagics will get max damage even if the 1st and 2nd casted w/o.

[sheintao]

Awesome, thanks again guys... I really had no idea of those dynamics. Sweet!

[Adrian99]

When you say "acid spec", can I assume that means you're a Sorceror with Earth Savant PRE? Because if so, then the only DOT that is efficient for you is Niac's Biting Cold. The level hit you take to Electric element makes Eladar's not worth the SP and neither is Black Dragon Bolt worth it because it only has a 6 second duration. Of course you can still use them, but they're not SP efficient.

[sheintao]

When you say "acid spec", can I assume that means you're a Sorceror with Earth Savant PRE? Because if so, then the only DOT that is efficient for you is Niac's Biting Cold. The level hit you take to Electric element makes Eladar's not worth the SP and neither is Black Dragon Bolt worth it because it only has a 6 second duration. Of course you can still use them, but they're not SP efficient.

Well, i'm an undead monk, 18 wiz / 2 monk... so i'm necro focused, with acid spec. When i say acid spec, i mean i've taken all the acid damage/crit based enhancements and wear epic rock boots.

[HighPrior]

Got bored and though I'd do some math.

Just comparing the Metamagic

With max/empower off for first two casts and on for the third.
Eladirs and Niacs average for 23.5 tier 1 per tic, 47 tier 2, and 70.5 tier 3
20sp first cast 8 tics (188), second cast 8 tic (376) 3rd cast max/empower 60 sp 8 tics (1410)
total. 1974 divided by 100sp equals ~19.74 damge per sp

With max/empower on all casts

55sp first cast 8 tics (470), second cast 8 tics (940) 3rd tier 8 tics (1410)
total 2820 divided by 180 equals ~15.67 damage per sp

So when you factor in time/metamagic reduction enhancements and item effects, having max/emp. on for all cast is more effecant.

As for Black dragon bolt

Formula to calculate average critical damage
w/o damage amplification = ([base damage x Crit chance]xcrit multiplier)+(damage x [100-crit chance)
With all damage amplification = ([base damage x Crit chance]xcrit damage amp)+(damage x [100-crit chance]x damage amp)

Damage amplification is additive: Base damage 100% + empower +50% + Maximize +100% = 250% or damage x 2.5
base damage 100%, emp. +50%, max. +100%, Acid Man. VII +50%, Eardweller +100%, Sup. acid lore damage multiplier +50%, Deadly acid VI +125%

Base damage (lvl 20) 30 per tic x 3 tics = 90 / 15sp = 6 damage per SP
w/ Metamagic 75 per tic x 3 tics = 225/ 55sp = 4.09 damage per SP
W/ Acid Man. VII 45 per tic x 3 tics = 135/ 15sp = 9 damage per SP
w/ Acid Man. VII + Meta 90 per tic x 3 tics = 270/ 55sp = 4.91 damage per SP
w/ all Acid Enh. 48 per tic x 3 tics = 144/ 15sp = 9.6 damage per SP
w/ Enh. and Meta 93 per tic x 3 tics = 279/ 55sp = 5.07 damage per SP
w/ Enh., Items and Meta 131per tic x 3 tics = 393/ 55sp = 7.15 damage per SP
If we add in Tier 1 of improved metamagic enhancements
131 per tic x 3 tics = 393/ 50sp = 7.86 damage per SP
With Tier 2 improved metamgic and wizard capstone
131 per tic x 3 tics = 393/ 43sp = 9.14 damage per SP
Earth Savant adds 6 levels to base damage (26d3 or 39 base)
170 per tic x 3 tics = 510/ 45sp = 11.33 damage per SP

For comparison Same formula applied to Polar ray gives: 393 damage for a wizard, 510 for a water savant

So In theory Black dragon bolt does the same damage as Polar ray, the obvious weakness in BDB is that resistance is applied 3 times instead of once.

[trog_star]

can you fire off the 1st/2nd from scrolls for a faster stack / more efficency?

eg.
fast stack.
base spell > scroll > full meta spell?

efficency
scroll > scroll > full meta spell.


obviously laying down 2 DoTs quickly with scrolls would require more juggleing.
like lore item in off hand and clickies before engageing
niacs scroll > edgars base spell > niacs base spell > edgars scroll > niacs full meta > edgars full meta.

just wondering if it works

[nibel]

I think the only downsize of this tactic is that those dot's aren't sold by any vendor, and AH prices on rare scrolls tend to be a bit expensive.

can you fire off the 1st/2nd from scrolls for a faster stack / more efficency?

eg.
fast stack.
base spell > scroll > full meta spell?

efficency
scroll > scroll > full meta spell.


obviously laying down 2 DoTs quickly with scrolls would require more juggleing.
like lore item in off hand and clickies before engageing
niacs scroll > edgars base spell > niacs base spell > edgars scroll > niacs full meta > edgars full meta.

just wondering if it works

[Laeelin]

i would say cast immediately when off cool down until you get all 3 stacks on, then you can wait til 1 or 2 seconds left before recasting.

.... I didn't know you could stack the same dot more than once...

That makes a big difference!

Any other tips like that I might have missed?

[SupTyr]

With max/empower off for first two casts and on for the third.
Eladirs and Niacs average for 23.5 tier 1 per tic, 47 tier 2, and 70.5 tier 3
20sp first cast 8 tics (188), second cast 8 tic (376) 3rd cast max/empower 60 sp 8 tics (1410)
total. 1974 divided by 100sp equals ~19.74 damge per sp

With max/empower on all casts

55sp first cast 8 tics (470), second cast 8 tics (940) 3rd tier 8 tics (1410)
total 2820 divided by 180 equals ~15.67 damage per sp

So when you factor in time/metamagic reduction enhancements and item effects, having max/emp. on for all cast is more effecant.

Usually you want to build up the triple stacks as quickly as possible. This means less ticks for the first two casts and more/full ticks for the 3rd,4th,...

2*4 ticks a 20sp (94+168)*1.0 => 6.55 damage/sp
2*4 ticks a 60sp (94+168)*2.5 => 5.483 damage/sp
and final stacks:
8 ticks a 60 sp 1410 => 23.5 damage/sp

see?

[HighPrior]

Usually you want to build up the triple stacks as quickly as possible. This means less ticks for the first two casts and more/full ticks for the 3rd,4th,...

2*4 ticks a 20sp (94+168)*1.0 => 6.55 damage/sp
2*4 ticks a 60sp (94+168)*2.5 => 5.483 damage/sp
and final stacks:
8 ticks a 60 sp 1410 => 23.5 damage/sp

see?

Time for more math.

If you cast the first two stacks w/o metamagic in quick sucsession then max/empowered at full duration on the third

4 x 23.5(94) + 4 x 47(188) + 8 x 176.25(1410) = 1692 damage/100sp = 16.92 dam/sp/32 seconds = .52875 damage/sp/sec

And full duration, no meta on the first two, then max/empower on the last

8 x 23.5(188) + 8 x 47(376) + 8 x 176.25(1410) = 1974 damage/100sp = 19.74 dam/sp/48 seconds = .41125 damage/sp/sec

what if you Max/Emp all three casts at max duration

8 x 58.75(470) + 8 x 117.5(940) + 8 x 176.25(1410) = 2820 damage/180sp = 15.67 dam/sp/ 48 seconds = .32646 damage/sp/sec

[morticianjohn]

One thing I do (other than examine the enemy as some have mentioned) is to watch the damage numbers. There are 8 damage numbers so once the 7th goes off you cast the dot again. This can be a problem if you can't see the damage numbers or if you're lagging. Examining the enemy works but if you're also doing targetted healing you can use other methods like watching damage numbers until it becomes automatic due to having an internal clock.