First cleric - Tear it apart.

[Olath_Senger]

Hey everyone!

I've gotten tired of having to wait for healers in my PUGs. I figured I'd start a cleric so I'd never have that problem. Thing is, I've only ran clerics up to around level 3 or 4 as favor runners. Almost all my characters are self-healing and most of them can do some group healing as well via wands or blue bars, but I've never had much experience as a dedicated healer. So here's my first go at it.

I'll be playing on a new server. This means no gear, no tomes, no vet status or 32-point builds. And no guild. I have yet to decide what server, but I'm thinking Sarlona.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(20 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 1651 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 5
Will: 21

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             10                    10
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         16                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               18                    28
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                    10
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         7                    26
Diplomacy            -1                     0
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  4                    11
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  0                     0
Listen                4                     9
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  4                     9
Swim                  0                     0
Tumble               n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness


Level 2 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 19 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II

Comments/criticism is very welcome. I'd like to be as optimal as I can, given the circumstances I've stated above.

EDIT: Oh, I guess I should say what my goals are. Epic-level healing ability and offensive casting with Implosion, Blade Barrier, and the rest of the standard damaging Cleric spells. Also instakilling (hence Necro focus).

[Tacktik]

Build doesn't look bad for a 28 pointer, though I don't know if I could live with that low CHA thru the undead infested low to mid lvls Only thing I'd do different is replace Mental Toughness with Empower Spell and change the feat order to this:

1.) Empower
1.) (HB). Tonghness
3.) Empower Healing
6.) Maximize
9.) Extend
12.) Necro Focus
15.) Quicken
18.) Shield

Reasoning behind this is that the Radient Servant bursts can be meta'd for free, so in the mid lvls you can lead the kill count vs undead and have lots of sp to spare as you won't use so much on healing. When I hit 6th, I was healing for 200+ with every burst. Of course, this is just my opinion and it's only for ease of lvling. It wouldn't make much of a diference if you did take mental toughness though; I just don't see it as a useful feat on a build like this.

Just a quick tip: each time you drag a spell on to your hotbar, you can set the metas for that spell, though this is common knowledge. The cool part is you can drag it down mutiple times and set the metas for each individual hotkey for the same spell. This has saved my bacon several times, and not too many people seem to know this. A bit off topic, but I thought I'd share it as it's one of the coolest tricks I've learned.

[DavionFuxa]

Mostly Solid, except for Mental Toughness which you may want to exchange for GSF: Necromancy, Empower, perhaps Heighten Spell. All serve different purposes and uses.

I would also concur with Sgt - Empower Healing is nice and you should look into fitting it in. I also agree that while having a rank in Prayer of Life and Prayer of Incredible Life can be nice it becomes less great after the 2nd rank. In generally as well, I find Spell Criticals are less important for Divines since characters have limited Health and not enough of your spells involve inflicting Light or Alignment Based Damage that you are actively going to use.

[Sgt_Hart]

No improved Empower healing enhancements?

I CANNOT stress how much SP one saves that way. empower heal is +10 SP. you can -4 that through enhancements. Additionally you can -2 that via gear. Empower heal for 10 SP a cast or 4.

I'd try like hell to work that in. Specifically, I'd look at

Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II

Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III

Long and hard. Your netting 80 from energy, at the cost of 6 AP.

1571 vs 1651 sp. split it up into chunks of 50(single Heal spell) 33 with energy taken. 31 without. Now.. More realistic math.. empowered heal.
1651 / 60 = 27
1571 / 54 = 29

Admittedly, you'd need 12 AP to bring down the reduction to +4SP, and some not-entirely-easy to get gear.

Reason I always regard Incredible life with a bit of suspicion is rather simple: You can't Count on crit heals at crunch time. You won't Crit-mass-heal your way to keeping everyone alive when solo-healing shroud. And let's face it.. 9/10 times its critting.. the target is probably already being over-healed.

still that'd only get you 8/12 points needed to bring your all around cost down.

Scroll mastery? 4 wisdom buys? Not sure. your build after all, just pointing out somewhere I'd diverge significantly from your planning. Food for thought, Don't forget the salt to go with it.

[Pape_27]

No improved Empower healing enhancements?

I CANNOT stress how much SP one saves that way. empower heal is +10 SP. you can -4 that through enhancements. Additionally you can -2 that via gear. Empower heal for 10 SP a cast or 4.

I'd try like hell to work that in. Specifically, I'd look at

Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II

Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III

Long and hard. Your netting 80 from energy, at the cost of 6 AP.

1571 vs 1651 sp. split it up into chunks of 50(single Heal spell) 33 with energy taken. 31 without. Now.. More realistic math.. empowered heal.
1651 / 60 = 27
1571 / 54 = 29

Admittedly, you'd need 12 AP to bring down the reduction to +4SP, and some not-entirely-easy to get gear.

Reason I always regard Incredible life with a bit of suspicion is rather simple: You can't Count on crit heals at crunch time. You won't Crit-mass-heal your way to keeping everyone alive when solo-healing shroud. And let's face it.. 9/10 times its critting.. the target is probably already being over-healed.

still that'd only get you 8/12 points needed to bring your all around cost down.

Scroll mastery? 4 wisdom buys? Not sure. your build after all, just pointing out somewhere I'd diverge significantly from your planning. Food for thought, Don't forget the salt to go with it.

some thoughts - this above post is some pretty bad advice.

- empower healing enhancements? 12 ap to save 10 per cast? not a good trade off imo. I have two divines and have never taken this enhancement line once.

- Energy of the zealot - 6 ap for 80 sp? good trade off.

- a minimum of Wand and Scroll Mastery II is a good thing, Scroll healing becomes more iportant when you play higher level content and you are trying to conserve mana.

- He has maxed his wisdom, and has stated he wantes to be a caster based cleric, hence the dumped str. He should boost his Wisdom as high as possible.

as for the build, I would consider lowering the con to 14 and adding a few more points in charisma, just to up the number of turns you get.

[hiryuu42]

Long and hard. Your netting 80 from energy, at the cost of 6 AP.

1571 vs 1651 sp. split it up into chunks of 50(single Heal spell) 33 with energy taken. 31 without. Now.. More realistic math.. empowered heal.
1651 / 60 = 27
1571 / 54 = 29

Admittedly, you'd need 12 AP to bring down the reduction to +4SP, and some not-entirely-easy to get gear.

This math is a bit funky. Either you have an Empower Healing II item or you don't, but it works even without the enhancement line. You need to compare 60 vs 56 or 58 vs 54. Math is close either way, but this is a first cleric, so I'll go with no item. Also, you're comparing a 12 AP investment against a 6 AP investment. Let's take Energy IV (10 AP total) to keep it more fair.

1571 / 56 = 28.05 Empowered Heal, Mass
1681 / 60 = 28.01 Empowered Heal, Mass

BUT! Unless you like Interrupted Glacial Pace Heal, Mass, the only realistic way to cast that spell is Quickened, for another 10 SP each.
1571 / 66 = 23.80 Quickened Empowered Heal, Mass
1681 / 70 = 24.01 Quickened Empowered Heal, Mass

This all assumes you spend most/all of your blue bar on healing. The less healbot you go, the more this swings in favor of generic SP, rather than specialized enhancements.

[Sarisa]

Either you have an Empower Healing II item or you don't, but it works even without the enhancement line. You need to compare 60 vs 56 or 58 vs 54. Math is close either way, but this is a first cleric, so I'll go with no item.

Specifically, the items available are:
Bijio - Efficient I (1 SP reduction), from a Shield of Legend turn-in. Grindy or expensive to get, even with the improvements in the Orchard rewards. A VERY poor shield otherwise, with horribly low DR.

Epic Bejewelled Letter Opener - Efficient II (2 SP). This is an epic Sands item, from Wizard King. Being a Wizard King item means it's a little easier to get than most desert items, but it's still a grind due to the very low drop rate of shards. This is not something I could expect many to get.

Lorrik's Necklace - Efficient II (2 SP). Raid drop from Hound of Xoriat. A decent enough item, but it's one that most would want to replace with the much superior Torc. Torc is much better for SP, as you WILL get hit in end game content (lots of random aggro), and Clerics are able to withstand melee/ranged attacks well.

Dragontouched armor Tempest Rune - Efficient II (2 SP). The Tempest slot has a lot of solid competition, such as a +6 stat you need, Spell Penetration 8 (land kill spells better against mobs with spell resistance), and 20% Healing Amp (which is wonderful with the aura).

Staff of Fleshshaping - Efficient II (2 SP). Good levelling item. Good for boss-fight mass cure situations, since that's the main place I would use the Empower Healing meta. In most questing, I'd rather have some sort of either casting boosting weapon to improve my kill spells or Greater Command; or a melee weapon like a Paralyzer to help keep the damage down. This is again a playstyle choice.

[Sgt_Hart]

This math is a bit funky.

True, I also didn't include +6 item, or SP item, or GS Sp item.. All of which, falls under "Moar blue bar, Better it is"

That said, I'd guesstimate it about works out. that said, the "cheaper" the healing spell get's, the better it is. Then agian, its also saving more SP to go towards non-heal spells too 'eh?

And.. erm.. Cough.. 54 was cost for empowered heal + quicken - (SP negation item + SP negation line) so your figures..

1571 / 56 = 28.05 Empowered Heal, Mass
1681 / 60 = 28.01 Empowered Heal, Mass

The first set at least, were correct. Heh. Admittedly, I should have specified I counted quicken in the math already.

There are plenty of mana regen items in the game. The archivist necklace, the twisted talism, the ring of spell storing, the bard song, the cake, the turn in for medium eberron shards, the torq, conc/op and lets not forget pots. The point is the cost ap wise is not justified. The blue bar is easy to extend. What you give up in return for the empower enhancement line isnt worth it imo.

Didn't address this earlier (Or anyone elses posts to the same effect(I'm not just picking on you pape, honest.)) As I couldn't work out why.. but it bothered me.

It clicked today while I was at work:

I'll be playing on a new server. This means no gear, no tomes, no vet status or 32-point builds. And no guild. I have yet to decide what server, but I'm thinking Sarlona.

That said, its Much easier to produce a -2SP item, than any of the slew of things people consider a "Must" for a cleric.

Specifically, the items available are..... List

1. Thanks for the list. I've always seen at least 1 flesh shaping staff drop per run.
2. ****** Sarisa.. I can only give you so much rep per day!

Now I understand that Popular opinion labels me wrong. Once upon a time.. the world was flat too. And EEeverybody.. knew it, it was a Fact. I loved the fact that I could solo-heal shroud on my first life, without the heaps of gear all the X3+ TR's insisted I needed.


That said, it might not work for everyone in here, Might not suit you, might not do what you in particular want it to. But it sure as heck worked for me, when I was a 1st life cleric on a new server(Sarlona, go figure), with no gear, no bank roll, no guild, and a solid background in DnD to know cleric's are front line fighters 80% of the time.


Your all welcome to disagree with me about how viable the Line in. But for teh sake of common decency.. quit it with the "Mint chocolate chip ice cream is terrible. I like Vanilla." Your personal preference does not make anything, or anyone else preference horrible.

[Pape_27]

Didn't address this earlier (Or anyone elses posts to the same effect(I'm not just picking on you pape, honest.)) As I couldn't work out why.. but it bothered me.

Its all good sarge I dont take a little back and forth as anything but that. its all in good fun

[Olath_Senger]

Thanks again for all the advice, guys! Here's the Final™ build I'll be doing:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(20 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 262
Spell Points: 1516 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 5
Will: 21

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             10                    10
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               18                    28
Charisma             12                    12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance              -1                    -1
Bluff                 1                     1
Concentration         2                     2
Diplomacy             1                     1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     1
Heal                  4                    11
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            1                     1
Jump                  0                     0
Listen                4                     9
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  4                     9
Swim                  0                     0
Tumble               n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning III
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II

[Sarisa]

Thanks again for all the advice, guys! Here's the Final™ build I'll be doing:

Looks good. The only possible change you could make is swapping around Quicken and Heighten, but only if you plan on running an elite bravery run of VoN6 or DQ.

[SirValentine]

Thanks again for all the advice, guys! Here's the Final™ build I'll be doing:

Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV

Not to second guess you, but you have all four levels of Smiting, without ANY Prayer of Smiting or Prayer of Incredible Smiting. With even modest gear (ANY lore item at all), this is not the best use of your action points for the Smiting lines.

For the same AP spent, you'd do more damage going 3/2/1 instead of 4/0/0, or almost as much for 2 fewer AP going 3/1/1. If you are well-geared, the difference is even more dramatic, and the 8-AP 3/1/1 is actually substantially BETTER than 4/0/0.

I did full calculations on every possible gear and enhancement combination to figure out the most effective boost a while back. You can check out the detailed results in my thread here:

Smiting Enhancement Analysis
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=352976

[hiryuu42]

Looks like a solid build. Have fun!

[firemedium_jt]

Tons of info on pure cleric builds on here.

That is only half the battle. Lots of gear information for Cleric too. That is the other half of the battle. And casting and tactics too.

[hiryuu42]

Like the others here, I think most of the build is fine, but feats need some tweaking.

1.) (HB). Toughness
1.) Extend
Extend is most useful in lower levels when those 1min/level buffs only get a few minutes. Take it early or not at all. Swap it out for Empower *just before* taking level 9, so you get the cheaper feat swap rate from Fred.

3.) Empower Healing
6.) Maximize
These are absolutely required for any caster-focused cleric.

9.) Heighten
For raising DCs, Heighten is essential. Just be selective about it, since it gets expensive.

12.) Shield
15.) Quicken
18.) Spell Penetration
Around level 12, AC stops helping, so that damage reduction comes at a good time. If you've seen a non-Quickened Mass Heal, you know Quicken is a must. Necro Focus is a fine pick, but spell resistance becomes a real problem in late/Epic levels.

[EatSmart]

You've dumped your dex and your strength at the same time. This will be a significant penalty when you try to save against trip effects. (Trip will use an opposed stat check against the highest of your str and dex) I strongly advise that you invest build points into one of the two, at least to the point where they stop being a 1 stat for 1 build point exchange rate. (support that with a + stat item too) The 5 reflex is also in the "auto-fail when fully buffed" range, which will be an annoying-but-livable flaw for easier content, but liability for epic raids that you've stated you want to be able to heal. Fireshield can cover that to a degree as a lot of end game aoe is fire based, but have a think about how you'll source that without UMD. Cometfall looks like this build's big weakspot in its current incarnation.

Implosion is an evocation spell, so keep in mind that your necro focus wont be raising its DC. (It will raise destruction and slay living though)

I'd suggest having maximise at 9 so that you get it in time for bladebarrier at 11. Maximised bladebarrier + maximised DP make the power xp quests like shadow crypt and von 3 elite with bravery extremely fast and easy without being beholden to good quality party members.

I'd put quicken at either 18 if you want to learn to play a cleric without it, or at 12 if you want it available for when the spells you're casting become significant enough to be an issue if they fail to cast.

Might poke my head in here later with more thoughts.

[SirValentine]

Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery

<snip>
EDIT: Oh, I guess I should say what my goals are. Epic-level healing ability and offensive casting with Implosion, Blade Barrier, and the rest of the standard damaging Cleric spells. Also instakilling (hence Necro focus).

If you want effective DCs, you need Heighten. Not saying you should drop Spell Focus, but doing so would IMPROVE your Destruction DC by 1 if you replaced it with Heighten, and your Slay Living by 3!

Consider swapping out Extend later. It's nice at low levels, but not as important when your durations are longer anyway.

I'm not a fan of Mental Toughness. I'd drop it completely, personally, and use THAT for Heighten.

On order, try to fit Maximize (and Empower if you can) as early as possible, for your Positive Energy Burst at level 6. It'll let you obliterate whole rooms full of undead, while healing yourself and allies at the same time.

[Sgt_Hart]

some thoughts - this above post is some pretty bad advice.

- empower healing enhancements? 12 ap to save 10 per cast? not a good trade off imo. I have two divines and have never taken this enhancement line once.

- Energy of the zealot - 6 ap for 80 sp? good trade off.

So.. you've never tried it.. Don't understand it (it's -4 instead of -10 to empower heal), and call it bad advice. Yet its come from someone who has played with out, and played with it, and Did the math.

Sigh. If you don't understand it, and lack and personal experience. Bluntly put, your in no position to judge it.

- a minimum of Wand and Scroll Mastery II is a good thing, Scroll healing becomes more iportant when you play higher level content and you are trying to conserve mana.

No argument, I'd aim for more if possible.

- He has maxed his wisdom, and has stated he wantes to be a caster based cleric, hence the dumped str. He should boost his Wisdom as high as possible..

I may have read OP wrong but..

EDIT: Oh, I guess I should say what my goals are. Epic-level healing ability and offensive casting with Implosion, Blade Barrier, and the rest of the standard damaging Cleric spells. Also instakilling (hence Necro focus).

Let's make that easier to process 'eh?

1. Epic-level healing ability and
2. offensive casting with Implosion, Blade Barrier, and the rest of the standard damaging Cleric spells.
3. Also instakilling (hence Necro focus).

I may be wrong, but order in post leads me to assume that order, and having lived without Empower heal reduction line.. I'll tell you right now, I won't make a cleric without it. I Swear by it.


Essentially, the more blue bar you have.. the more of a difference it makes.

[Pape_27]

[/COLOR]
So.. you've never tried it.. Don't understand it (it's -4 instead of -10 to empower heal), and call it bad advice. Yet its come from someone who has played with out, and played with it, and Did the math.

Sigh. If you don't understand it, and lack and personal experience. Bluntly put, your in no position to judge it.

Quite the opposite. I understand it very well. Basically you are proposing that he spend 12 ap on an enhancement line that will basically save him the equivalent of two heals - 12 ap that can be used to boost other spells besides an empowered heal. Given the introduction of the radiant servant pre, the additional heals that are saved via the empower heal line (2 heals according to your math) are easily made up with via alternative healing methods. Its a no brainer that its not worth the cost.

As for no experience, my very first life I used it. Then specced out of it - It made no real difference then - on a 28 point build following the turbine Warpriest of Syberis path. It was juat not worth it in my experience because I wanted to do other things than just cast heals on the party.


I may be wrong, but order in post leads me to assume that order, and having lived without Empower heal reduction line.. I'll tell you right now, I won't make a cleric without it. I Swear by it.

Essentially, the more blue bar you have.. the more of a difference it makes.

There are plenty of mana regen items in the game. The archivist necklace, the twisted talism, the ring of spell storing, the bard song, the cake, the turn in for medium eberron shards, the torq, conc/op and lets not forget pots. The point is the cost ap wise is not justified. The blue bar is easy to extend. What you give up in return for the empower enhancement line isnt worth it imo.

Comments in color.

[Sgt_Hart]

Sarisa Pretty much nailed it, All a matter of preference and play-style really.

Lacking vet status I'd want empower heal, and shield mastery as my first two, if beginning at level 1. That early Damage immunity is quite useful, as is the ability to adequately convert spell points directly into hit points. And well, you need empower heal for RS, and I'd think want RS asap.

- empower healing enhancements? 12 ap to save 10 per cast? not a good trade off imo. I have two divines and have never taken this enhancement line once.

As for no experience, my very first life I used it. Then specced out of it - It made no real difference then - on a 28 point build following the turbine Warpriest of Syberis path.

Credibility: Your doing it wrong.