Sorc: surviving Harry's fire ball

[good_ole_corwin]

did someone **** in your cheerios?

I unloaded on him with a complete cycle and then I see the blast coming at me, well guess what? I would say I got his attention as he had to turn around and fire it off at me as I always stand behind him when he first comes in. If that is not grabbing his aggro then what is? Especially with others attacking him?

Did he continue to cast on you after that and noone else? No? Then its random aggro. "Random aggro" means that he does not follow a regular hate list mechanics, which can even be caused simply by his hate list resetting too often. Perhaps you hit him at just the right time. And also, one instance of him turning on you is hardly proof of anything. Repeat it several times with the same effect, then we can talk.

Well apparently it does not matter because he is random aggro So I can stand pretty much anywhere and the healers still have a chance at getting a fireball to the face just because.

Fireball is an AoE spell. Stand near healers = healers (and you) will get hit by it whether it is you being targetted or the healers, effectively doubling the chance of "getting a fireball to the face just because" for both you and the healers.

EDIT: Also, Id love to see the 274 HPs breakdown, because the only way I can figure out a lvl17 pure sorc could have exactly that number would be 26 total con, toughness item, GFL item, no toughness feat/enhancements. You said you werent sure in the OP, but the way you put the new post seemed like you already confirmed the number, so just curious.

[TheDearLeader]

did someone **** in your cheerios?

I unloaded on him with a complete cycle and then I see the blast coming at me, well guess what? I would say I got his attention as he had to turn around and fire it off at me as I always stand behind him when he first comes in. If that is not grabbing his aggro then what is? Especially with others attacking him?

I see by the post below this one it has more firmly sunk in that you understand that Arraetrikos is "random aggro", and not Hate-based in any manner or fashion. Now that you understand this, perhaps you'd like to reevaluate what you've said?

You've taken offense to the slightest statement, while failing to take away what was the more important message of my post : Do not wait to start DPSing on Arraetrikos, like you would with other Red/Purple names. Begin DPS "Nuking" immediately.

[lugoman]

Not to hard to strafe out the way if you stand back. Just be aware of the blades.

[goodspeed]

heh, funny, that was about what i was thinking

i mean, maybe a bit more than that (semi-decent chance of a wiz VI item, very tiny chance of archmage item, and of course there's potential guild slots and the trinket from the cove event), but yeah... 2700 SP on a first life no-gear sorc is not a reasonable expectation.

Ya for power ud have a wizardry VI item at least as a hat slot. Archmagi if your lucky or just made one from cove. Then stack on an extra 120 from the timed slot item, maybe another 100 if you made the trinket when cove was around. **** now I wanna add it up.

Ok after adding it up a reg geared sorc should have around 2320 sp. At lv 17. Bit more if you have access to +2 shrines or a lv 70 guild. Which most don't. So we gotta shoot for that lv 45 area.

Now if you did get lucky and buy an archmagi item or make a hat in cc then tack on another 100. If you made the trinket then tack on another 100. If You got the ingredients for a GS then tack on another 300.

[TheDearLeader]

Ya for power ud have a wizardry VI item at least as a hat slot. Archmagi if your lucky or just made one from cove. Then stack on an extra 120 from the timed slot item, maybe another 100 if you made the trinket when cove was around.

Mine has about 2900 without the GS and the cove trinket. Though I took mental toughness so knock about 100 off that. He's 28 pter. **** now I wanna add it up.

You're also capped, I assume? And have Green Steel?

The initial requirements were "First Life Level 17 Sorcerer, No Green Steel." As in, someone's first toon getting into the Shroud.

If the Sorc is new, it may be newer than the last time the Cove was around, or at the very least too low level the last time the Cove was around to get such items. Guild Slot Items are nice - but only if you can fit them into your Gearset, and are in a Guild of appropriate level. Also - if you're not a crafter/don't seek one out, you're using an item slot probably pretty much for a Guild Slot. After all, that Large/Medium Slotted Armored Bracers of Heal +5 aren't doing too much for a Sorcerer.

Regarding Wizardry VI ... I'm not convinced they'd have it at level 17. From where? There's not a lot of named items with an ML below 18 that have Wizardry VI/VII/Archmagi, and the few that do aren't really of convenient access to a first-life Sorc. As far as Random Lootgen "Clean" SP items are.. well, my experience has been that they are pretty rare, as well, and I normally only see such things in quests higher than the level 17 Sorc would be seeing them in.
Edit : I was curious, so I decided to go look at my AH for random lootgen Wizardry items. There were 2 Wizardry VII headpieces, 1 Wizardry V, and a heap of Wizardry I and III, which is of course below Magi/Power X. The Wizardry VII items were listed for 200k and 260k plat each - and I'm not sure if a new player would be seeing that much money to be able to casually afford one of these. And the highest that can be unbound crafted is Wizardry V, and requires level 140 in Arcane crafting.
Edit 2 : The only thing I could possibly see being even remotely accessible to a level 17 first-life sorc is perhaps the level 16 Version of the Ring of the Master Artifice(r). It has Wizardry VI. Then again, if you aren't WF, the rest of the abilities are rather useless.

[goodspeed]

You're also capped, I assume? And have Green Steel?

The initial requirements were "First Life Level 17 Sorcerer, No Green Steel." As in, someone's first toon getting into the Shroud.

If the Sorc is new, it may be newer than the last time the Cove was around, or at the very least too low level the last time the Cove was around to get such items. Guild Slot Items are nice - but only if you can fit them into your Gearset, and are in a Guild of appropriate level. Also - if you're not a crafter/don't seek one out, you're using an item slot probably pretty much for a Guild Slot. After all, that Large/Medium Slotted Armored Bracers of Heal +5 aren't doing too much for a Sorcerer.

Regarding Wizardry VI ... I'm not convinced they'd have it at level 17. From where? There's not a lot of named items with an ML below 18 that have Wizardry VI/VII/Archmagi, and the few that do aren't really of convenient access to a first-life Sorc. As far as Random Lootgen "Clean" SP items are.. well, my experience has been that they are pretty rare, as well, and I normally only see such things in quests higher than the level 17 Sorc would be seeing them in.
Edit : I was curious, so I decided to go look at my AH for random lootgen Wizardry items. There were 2 Wizardry VII headpieces, 1 Wizardry V, and a heap of Wizardry I and III, which is of course below Magi/Power X. The Wizardry VII items were listed for 200k and 260k plat each - and I'm not sure if a new player would be seeing that much money to be able to casually afford one of these. And the highest that can be unbound crafted is Wizardry V, and requires level 140 in Arcane crafting.
Edit 2 : The only thing I could possibly see being even remotely accessible to a level 17 first-life sorc is perhaps the level 16 Version of the Ring of the Master Artifice(r). It has Wizardry VI. Then again, if you aren't WF, the rest of the abilities are rather useless.

No thats lv 17 im quoting. AP's feats, all that. And wizardy VI is easy. I usually find em on the ah in the form of hats, sometimes rings. Just bought a new alt a VI hat for lv 13 costed I think 60k.

As for slotted gear, nothing is permanent. If you never change gear ur cheating urself. I have my sp gear settup for entering a dungeon and buffing, then I switch to the hp setup. Even then theirs still a couple other setups but that's for conditions in the dungeon.

And if you wanted to go for capped 20 with GS and all then he's got almost 3300 sp. Though I think it could be higher cause I don't think I ever ate a +2 tome on him. He's got no epic items yet. Just the GS, med slots, archmagi, and the vitality trinket. Though if I didn't have that could use that trinket from the asylum at lv 15 for the +1 cha. Ive also been thinking about making a cha weapon for situationals. Jack up dc and a lil more sp.

[Vengeance777]

I crafted a full fire set for my sorc. Tier 3 Shroud Fire Absorb weapon, Tier 2and 3 Improved Fire Resist item, Firestorm Greaves, and the Red Dragonscale robe. Knocks fire damage way down. Just swap them in when you are facing a baddy that uses fire.

[Missing_Minds]

I crafted a full fire set for my sorc. Tier 3 Shroud Fire Absorb weapon, Tier 2and 3 Improved Fire Resist item, Firestorm Greaves, and the Red Dragonscale robe. Knocks fire damage way down. Just swap them in when you are facing a baddy that uses fire.

You have a blast in Enter the Kobold don't you?

[TheDearLeader]

No thats lv 17 im quoting. AP's feats, all that. And wizardy VI is easy. I usually find em on the ah in the form of hats, sometimes rings. Just bought a new alt a VI hat for lv 13 costed I think 60k.

Very well. I politely ask you present your math for producing a level 17 Sorcerer with 2900+ SP. You can use Wizardry VI, Cove Trinket, and Medium Guild Slot, but no Green Steel.

Edit : I've done it for you, using the parameters you yourself have put forth.

Charisma @ Level 17
18 Base
02 Tome
04 Enhancements
04 Levelups
06 Item
=34 Charisma

1370 Level 17 Sorcerer (Includes Magical Training)
0312 Bonus SP @ 34 Charisma
0200 Magi or Power X Item
0070 Energy of the Dragonblooded II, required for Savant I
0120 Medium Guild Augment Slot, Sorcerer
0090 Mental Toughness (Not recommended)
0100 Greater Cunning Trinket
0100 Upgrade Magi/Power X to Wizardry VI

=2362 SP @ level 17

I'm still seeing a difference of almost 550 SP. In fact, even adding in a tier 3 GS SP item would still leave you 250 SP shy. Am I missing something, or would you like to reconsider this number?

[MrFister]

Very well. I politely ask you present your math for producing a level 17 Sorcerer with 2900+ SP. You can use Wizardry VI, Cove Trinket, and Medium Guild Slot, but no Green Steel.

Charisma @ Level 17
20 Base (Drow)
02 Tome
03 Enhancements
04 Levelups
06 Item
01 Exceptional (DT tempest)
=36 Charisma

1370 Level 17 Sorcerer (Includes Magical Training)
0338 Bonus SP @ 36 Charisma
0300 Wiz VI Item
0200 Greater Elemental Spellpower (DT sov)
0150 Energy of the Dragonblooded IV
0120 Medium Slot
0100 Cove Trinket
0090 Mental Toughness
0090 Imp Mental Toughness
=2758 SP @ level 17


I don't think it can be done! It was a fun exercise though. Did I forget anything?

[TheDearLeader]

Charisma @ Level 17
20 Base (Drow)
02 Tome
03 Enhancements
04 Levelups
06 Item
01 Exceptional (DT tempest)
=36 Charisma

1370 Level 17 Sorcerer (Includes Magical Training)
0338 Bonus SP @ 36 Charisma
0300 Wiz VI Item
0200 Greater Elemental Spellpower (DT sov)
0150 Energy of the Dragonblooded IV
0120 Medium Slot
0100 Cove Trinket
0090 Mental Toughness
0090 Imp Mental Toughness
=2758 SP @ level 17


I don't think it can be done! It was a fun exercise though. Did I forget anything?

Doesn't seem like it. I didn't add Energy III & IV, or Improved Mental Toughness. As it is, I think Mental Toughness is a waste, and I only take Energy II because the game makes me for Savant. It's just like the Max-Con Warforged Barb with 7 Toughness Feats. Sure, he's got the most hit points of anyone you've ever seen - but he can't qualify for his PrE, and has lackluster DPS. The game is more than just HP/SP values.

I will say that I don't see many first-life level 17 Sorcs running around that managed to get a SP Sovereign Rune. Even if they were to successfully get the Rune, I'd say flagging for, and completing, Stealer of Souls would have leveled them to 18 at least.

Also, why 100 SP for the Cove Trinket? Using the wiki description, it gives 30 SP. Even doubling that for being a Sorc, it's only 60 SP. Or am I missing something? (I don't personally own one, so I could be.)

[MrWizard]

meteor swarm has bludgeon damage too.....
2d3+6 x 4 = 48 max added to that remaining fire damage

I took my sorc into the shroud tonight and it was the first time that there was not enough melees to hold aggro. So as I was dishing out 800+ dmg at each cast I would get smashed with a fireball or maybe it was meteor swarm, not sure just know that it would deal about 250+ dmg to me each time, I have 274 hp at level 17 I think if I remember right cannot log in to check right yet.

[Missing_Minds]

Think he used a +3 tome and dragontouched acceptional Cha (+1) to shove up the Cha to the next bonus?
Doubt it would be enough to help though.

[TheDearLeader]

Think he used a +3 tome and dragontouched acceptional Cha (+1) to shove up the Cha to the next bonus?
Doubt it would be enough to help though.

Each +2 Charisma is 26 SP gained. To make up a difference of 300 SP, he would require 24 additional points of Charisma.

Also, the context was originally as a first-life toon. Can I see more SP at level 17? Sure. 3x Sorc, 3x Favored Soul, Sorc PL Purchased Feat, Both Mental Toughnesses, +4 Tome, Bracers of the Glacier, Large Augment Slot instead of Medium, etc. etc. etc... But almost all relatively unavailable for a "new caster", and definitely not ideal due to poor feat choices.

[danotmano1998]

Charisma @ Level 17
20 Base (Drow)
02 Tome
03 Enhancements
04 Levelups
06 Item
01 Exceptional (DT tempest)
=36 Charisma

1370 Level 17 Sorcerer (Includes Magical Training)
0338 Bonus SP @ 36 Charisma
0300 Wiz VI Item
0200 Greater Elemental Spellpower (DT sov)
0150 Energy of the Dragonblooded IV
0120 Medium Slot
0100 Cove Trinket
0090 Mental Toughness
0090 Imp Mental Toughness
=2758 SP @ level 17


I don't think it can be done! It was a fun exercise though. Did I forget anything?

Honestly, Most of what you've got going there really isn't going to happen.
Let's look at some real numbers:

18 base Cha
2 Tome (Questionable for a first lifer.. Near impossible for a new-ish player w/o great luck.
3 Enhancements
4 Level Ups
6 Item
33 base Cha. So in effect a working 32. (30 sans tome)

1370 Level 17 Sorcerer (Includes Magical Training)
0260 Bonus SP @ 30 Charisma
0300 Wiz VI Item
0150 Energy of the Dragonblooded IV (Very doubtful. Most builds won't max this!)
0100 Cove Trinket
=2180 SP @ level 17

So, your typical decently geared level 17 sorceror is going to be around 2200sp.

Dragontouched stuff, GS stuff, +2 Tomes, exceptional charisma bonuses wouldn't necessarily be available to a first life, non twinked character. Guild slot items may or may not be available to newer characters either, depending on if they get extremely lucky and get in a high level guild.

Neither would a "typical" build take the Energy of the Dragonblooded to level 4, when 2 is all you need for the pre-requisites.

So yes, what you are showing IS technically possible, but nowhere close to realistic in my eyes.

[Teharahma]

did someone **** in your cheerios?

I unloaded on him with a complete cycle and then I see the blast coming at me, well guess what? I would say I got his attention as he had to turn around and fire it off at me as I always stand behind him when he first comes in. If that is not grabbing his aggro then what is? Especially with others attacking him?

/Facepalm

[MrFister]

I was by no means saying it was likely, or in any way a good idea. I was providing the highest SP possible for a level 17 first life Sorc given TheDearLeader's constraints.

As for the cove trinket, 30 SP is a UI typo/bug, it actually grants 50 SP (100 for Sorc/FvS).

I agree, never take mental toughnesses or SP enhancements beyond level II. Also, don't go Drow.

[TheDearLeader]

I was by no means saying it was likely, or in any way a good idea. I was providing the highest SP possible for a level 17 first life Sorc given TheDearLeader's constraints.

As for the cove trinket, 30 SP is a UI typo/bug, it actually grants 50 SP (100 for Sorc/FvS).

I agree, never take mental toughnesses or SP enhancements beyond level II. Also, don't go Drow.

Gotcha on the trinket, thanks.

[darthhento]

Charisma @ Level 17
20 Base (Drow)
02 Tome
03 Enhancements
04 Levelups
06 Item
01 Exceptional (DT tempest)
=36 Charisma

1370 Level 17 Sorcerer (Includes Magical Training)
0338 Bonus SP @ 36 Charisma
0300 Wiz VI Item
0200 Greater Elemental Spellpower (DT sov)
0150 Energy of the Dragonblooded IV
0120 Medium Slot
0100 Cove Trinket
0090 Mental Toughness
0090 Imp Mental Toughness
=2758 SP @ level 17


I don't think it can be done! It was a fun exercise though. Did I forget anything?

I'd shoot myself in the knee before taking Energy III&IV, Mental Toughness and Imp Mental Toughness on my sorc.

----------------------------------------------------

Harry does a kamehameha-like move before he casts meteor storm. So if he's facing you while he does it you may want to move a little and avoid the damage in whole.

XO, Darthwolf

[tinyelvis]

You can cast Fire Shield: Cold, which halves all fire damage you suffer.

As a Sorc you can't easily take the spell (level 4 has high-quality stuff), but you can use scrolls of it, which can be purchased from vendors.


Also Harry's Fireballs and Meteor Swarms have nothing to do with aggro. He casts them at random party members. It's good to have a high HP character between Harry and you for this reason, but Fire Shield will make sure that one mistake will not kill you.

I find the best defense is constant motion coupled with the fire shield, resists and protection. If you are not slowed and are in motion transverse to Harry when he casts, his spell will miss you. There may be a random aggro component to targeting, but I know for a fact if you are currently the high DPS fellow, then you will be the main target of many more of Harry's ranged attacks. I have found myself in this situation many times. So i vehemently disagree with "nothing to do with aggro" comment.

If you end up in this situation, its a good idea to re-apply protections after every successful hit. These can be scroll cast too (see mass protection from elements scroll).